Bayless and Webster need to be moved this summer

[MIXUM]

POP QUIZ... anyone remember the last time bayless hit a jumper? was it before xmas vs the spurs? My god we are missing blake at backup pg. words i never thought i would write.

and i have always supported webster but im done. hes too streaky. end of story.

both need to be packaged this summer for a top tier SF. resign blake to backup miller.

 

[hasoos]

Jumpers are easy to fix. Impatience, not so easy to fix.

 

[craigehlo]

Jumpers are easy to fix. Impatience, not so easy to fix.

Jumpers are easy to fix? Really? They why is Bayless, a gym rat, getting worse as his career progresses with his distance shooting.

The longer we hold onto these guys, the lower their stock falls.

 

[MIXUM]

blazer homerism at its finest lol

 

[Rodolfo]

Jumpers are easy to fix? Really? They why is Bayless, a gym rat, getting worse as his career progresses with his distance shooting.

The longer we hold onto these guys, the lower their stock falls.

Jesus Christ man. This is his first season with a decent amount of time on the court. All of his stats have improved across the board from last season.

 

[hasoos]

Take your meds man. They will help balance those highs and lows out!

 

[Wheels]

Jumpers are easy to fix? Really? They why is Bayless, a gym rat, getting worse as his career progresses with his distance shooting.

The longer we hold onto these guys, the lower their stock falls.

not saying you are wrong.. but Jason Kidd had no jumper for a very long time. He developed one pretty late in his career... so it can be done.

 

[hasoos]

Jumpers are easy to fix? Really? They why is Bayless, a gym rat, getting worse as his career progresses with his distance shooting.

The longer we hold onto these guys, the lower their stock falls.

Because he doesn't have time to take 600 jumpers a day in the gymn like you do in the summer. Last year they wanted him to learn how to play PG did they not? I didn't hear a lot about working on his jumper.

How bad of shooter was Travis Outlaw for years before he got his 3 point shot?

This is nothing that a summer workout with Bayno can't solve. They just need to focus on the right area.

Lastly Folks: Get over it. Not all players and draft picks turn out good. The facts are, probably out of this group, if we get a good player or two out of it, we will be extremely fortunate. But we have to find out if they can play first, and make the proper decision. It doesn't happen overnight unless the player is a stud. We don't have any studs, so we have to be patient, find out what we have, and move forward.

 

[Rodolfo]

not saying you are wrong.. but Jason Kidd had no jumper for a very long time. He developed one pretty late in his career... so it can be done.

I disagree. Kidd went to Cal and Bayless went to Arizona so that's just stupid. Wait, being irrational feels weird and lame. I take that back.

 

[Kaydow]

FWIW - Bayless has gone 3 of his last 4 games w/o making a FG. When he goes cold, he really nose dives.

 

[Rodolfo]

FWIW - Bayless has gone 3 of his last 4 games w/o making a FG. When he goes cold, he really nose dives.

Yeah, but it's not like he's taking 10+ shots a night.
0-4
0-4
3-6
0-2

 

[hasoos]

FWIW - Bayless has gone 3 of his last 4 games w/o making a FG. When he goes cold, he really nose dives.

You can say the same about his other young compadres, Rudy and Batum. Pick your favorite Blazer to hate, talk some shit. You will be right.

 

[Wheels]

I disagree. Kidd went to Cal and Bayless went to Arizona so that's just stupid. Wait, being irrational feels weird and lame. I take that back.

 

[Rodolfo]

Guys, it's a lot more enjoyable if you try to be positive about the people we have on the team. We will get better with time, summers of hard work, ect. Make that glass half full, not half empty!

 

[barfo]

Guys, it's a lot more enjoyable if you try to be positive about the people we have on the team. We will get better with time, summers of hard work, ect. Make that glass half full, not half empty!

You mean that pissing in the glass isn't going to fill it up half way?

barfo

 

[BlazerBeav]

not saying you are wrong.. but Jason Kidd had no jumper for a very long time. He developed one pretty late in his career... so it can be done.

When Gary Payton showed up at OSU, he had no jump shot. None. By the time he left he was that SI Player of the Year. Shooting is one thing that coaching can improve.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

The problem is not the players!!! We have no known offense and our defense is pathetic! Boozer and any other team with a physical big beats us under the hardwood! Every team knows we are soft, good grief Nate teach how to box out. WOW!!!

 

[EGame]

So let me get this straight, you want to trade Rudy, Bayless, Webster, and Batum? Anyone else you want to trade. Fuck, we should just abolish this team and have our players go to different teams, that sounds like a stellar idea.

 

[Rodolfo]

You mean that pissing in the glass isn't going to fill it up half way?

barfo

People need to stop pissing in everyone's cheerios. People unload their bladders on this place everyday. Same threads repeated over and over and over.

 

[WillG]

Agreed, the team would look much better with a coach who knew some X & O's.
And I also think this team won't take that step up to the next tier until they change the coach.
No matter how good the talent is, it's wasted if the in game schemes cannot utilise it.

But, anyone who wishes that Blake and Outlaw were back on the team is delusional.
That was a great move by KP, getting rid of guys, though appreciated for their time, were not long term answers.
It'll free up time for Bayless to get experience, with which, hopefully his consistency will improve.

On a positive note, I'm excited about both Bayless and particularly Batums development over the next season and a half, now that we've shortened the roster.
(probably should shorten even more by moving Webster)

 

[craigehlo]

How bad of shooter was Travis Outlaw for years before he got his 3 point shot?

TO is our model for progress then? Ugh.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Why don't we look at the facts and form a basis on those instead?

Here's a recent list of lottery-picked guards. I've included their last season of college ball shooting percentages, both FG and 3PT, and their first back-to-back seasons where they received at least 12 minutes, an NBA quarter, of action per game.

2007 Draft:

Mike Conley - age 22 (college 52%/30% -> NBA first season 43%/33% -> NBA second season 44%/41% -> NBA third season 42%/42%)

2008 Draft:

Derrick Rose - age 21 (college 48%/34% -> NBA first season 48%/22% -> NBA second season 48%/25%
OJ Mayo age - age 22 (college 44%/41% -> NBA first season 44%/38% -> NBA second season 45% 39%
Russell Westbrook - age 21 (college 47%/34% -> NBA first season 40%/27% -> NBA second season 41%/25%
Eric Gordon - age 21 (college 43%/34% -> NBA first season 46%/39% -> NBA second season 47%/37%
DJ Augustin - age 22 (college 44%/39% -> NBA first season 43%/44% -> NBA second season 37%/37%)

OJ Mayo, the best collegiate outside shooter of this group didn't have any trouble adjusting to the NBA, shooting wise. The worst collegiate outside shooter of this group, Conley, went from below average in his first season to top tier in his next. Conley may prove to be the exception to this rule, but the odds are the better shooter you are in college, the better shooter you'll be in the pros. Only Acie Law comes to mind as a recent guard that shot well in college but since fizzled in the pros, and I think that more speaks to the rest of his game.

Bayless, only 21, shot 46%/41% in college. In just 12 minutes per game last season, he shot 37%/26%. Now with 18 minutes per game, he's shooting 41%/27%. As for shooting accuracy, I expect him to progress next year to Conley's second season, Mayo's first season, or DJ's first seasons. It's not likely his stroke would deteriorate to that of Rose or Westbrook, and he has a number of other offensive tools so he shouldn't go the way of an Acie Law.

I think some need to remember that he's just 21 and he's already playing well above a number of his contemporaries, Acie Law, Mike Conley, and DJ Augustin. IMO, and I'm surprised by this, Jerryd has a slightly higher PER than Gordon and Mayo, while also a lower Drtg than Mayo and the same as Gordon.

Obviously Rose and Westbrook are far and away better guards, but, Bayless is stacking up very nicely in the past three drafts amongst other similar players.

As a replacement to last season's Sergio and this season's Steve Blake, he's also proving to be a better option.

There could be better options out there, but they won't be available or the cost will be way too high. Bayless is producing and he's doing so cheaply for the next few seasons. He's young, so the odds are he's going to improve.

Trading him would be a massive mistake IMO.

 

[craigehlo]

Here's a recent list of lottery-picked guards.

He looks so-so from that hand picked group of guards. He looks pretty mediocre particularly when you look at 2009 lottery guard class which includes Evans, Harden, Curry, Flynn and Jennings.

 

[hasoos]

TO is our model for progress then? Ugh.

I pretty much put that as worse case scenario for a player who still made it in the league, and yet improved their shot. Lets face it. If Travis hadn't done a lot of work, he would have never even reached the point of being a below average player.

 

[Minstrel]

TO is our model for progress then? Ugh.

In terms of shooting? If every player progressed like Outlaw in shooting skill, they'd be really fortunate.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

He looks so-so from that hand picked group of guards. He looks pretty mediocre particularly when you look at 2009 lottery guard class which includes Evans, Harden, Curry, Flynn and Jennings.

The 2009 class is incomplete as I was wanting two seasons of Pro minutes to compare. I'll go check the others out though. I'm interested.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

He looks so-so from that hand picked group of guards. He looks pretty mediocre particularly when you look at 2009 lottery guard class which includes Evans, Harden, Curry, Flynn and Jennings.

And the main reason for the comparison was to show that Bayless would likely improve his shooting, which other don't believe he will.

 

[craigehlo]

And the main reason for the comparison was to show that Bayless would likely improve his shooting, which other don't believe he will.

Count me as one of the doubters. I saw him live in Summer League when we drafted him and was excited by his moves to the rim. But his jumper looks identical from that summer. Not a lot of rotation and pretty flat. I'm not sure it's something he can unlearn at this point.

 

[hasoos]

And the main reason for the comparison was to show that Bayless would likely improve his shooting, which other don't believe he will.

Exactly. All those guys learned by being thrown into the fire. The only team that wasn't throwing their draft pick into the fire, was the Blazers (pun fully intended!). Now look at all of those teams and where they are now. OKC passing the Blazers. Memphis creeping up on them. Charlotte has turned the corner IMO, they have plenty of talent to compete. Even look at what is going on in New Orleans with Paul out, their young guards are stepping up and getting better. They take their lumps, but they learn.

Now we are going to take our lumps. We are doing this so we can have a shot at having a higher level talent on the team. We weren't going to win jack shit in the playoffs this year anyhow, and nobody cares about all the teams that get jacked in the first and second round.

 

[mook]

Why don't we look at the facts and form a basis on those instead?

Here's a recent list of lottery-picked guards. I've included their last season of college ball shooting percentages, both FG and 3PT, and their first back-to-back seasons where they received at least 12 minutes, an NBA quarter, of action per game.

2007 Draft:

Mike Conley - age 22 (college 52%/30% -> NBA first season 43%/33% -> NBA second season 44%/41% -> NBA third season 42%/42%)

2008 Draft:

Derrick Rose - age 21 (college 48%/34% -> NBA first season 48%/22% -> NBA second season 48%/25%
OJ Mayo age - age 22 (college 44%/41% -> NBA first season 44%/38% -> NBA second season 45% 39%
Russell Westbrook - age 21 (college 47%/34% -> NBA first season 40%/27% -> NBA second season 41%/25%
Eric Gordon - age 21 (college 43%/34% -> NBA first season 46%/39% -> NBA second season 47%/37%
DJ Augustin - age 22 (college 44%/39% -> NBA first season 43%/44% -> NBA second season 37%/37%)

OJ Mayo, the best collegiate outside shooter of this group didn't have any trouble adjusting to the NBA, shooting wise. The worst collegiate outside shooter of this group, Conley, went from below average in his first season to top tier in his next. Conley may prove to be the exception to this rule, but the odds are the better shooter you are in college, the better shooter you'll be in the pros. Only Acie Law comes to mind as a recent guard that shot well in college but since fizzled in the pros, and I think that more speaks to the rest of his game.

Bayless, only 21, shot 46%/41% in college. In just 12 minutes per game last season, he shot 37%/26%. Now with 18 minutes per game, he's shooting 41%/27%. As for shooting accuracy, I expect him to progress next year to Conley's second season, Mayo's first season, or DJ's first seasons. It's not likely his stroke would deteriorate to that of Rose or Westbrook, and he has a number of other offensive tools so he shouldn't go the way of an Acie Law.

I think some need to remember that he's just 21 and he's already playing well above a number of his contemporaries, Acie Law, Mike Conley, and DJ Augustin. IMO, and I'm surprised by this, Jerryd has a slightly higher PER than Gordon and Mayo, while also a lower Drtg than Mayo and the same as Gordon.

Obviously Rose and Westbrook are far and away better guards, but, Bayless is stacking up very nicely in the past three drafts amongst other similar players.

As a replacement to last season's Sergio and this season's Steve Blake, he's also proving to be a better option.

There could be better options out there, but they won't be available or the cost will be way too high. Bayless is producing and he's doing so cheaply for the next few seasons. He's young, so the odds are he's going to improve.

Trading him would be a massive mistake IMO.

Nice post. The only thing I'd add is that Bayless went from a PER last year of 8.2 (in 12mpg) to this year's 15.2 (in 18 mpg).

That's a really, really nice improvement. I'd be shocked if there were many players in the entire league averaging over 12 mpg who saw that big of a jump.

To say that his shot won't improve just seems grossly, well, incorrect. The numbers show he's made massive strides from his rookie year. Imagine next year if he goes from 18 mpg to 28 mpg.