Bayless, Blake, PGs in general

[Rastapopoulos]

I've been ripping on Bayless all season. I never thought he'd get many minutes in the regular season, and I certainly didn't think he'd be starting, because, on watching him dominate the Summer League (much like Aaron Brooks did the previous season) I decided he wasn't a point guard. However, I was under the mistaken impression that Steve Blake WAS. He quite clearly isn't. What he is, is a spot up shooter who can't shoot off the dribble, and won't shoot when his shot is remotely contested, which against the Rockets it always is. Why is he getting minutes again? If he's not going to shoot 3s, and he is just going to give the ball to Brandon every time he crosses half court (or before), and he can't stay with his man - what's the use of him? Might as well put Bayless in there with Brandon (and have an actual PG, our only actual PG, Sergio, play all the minutes that Roy is off the floor).

Will somebody kidnap Blake, or knock him on the head so he's out at least until the end of this series? I can't take watching him any more.

 

[LittleAlex]

Unfortunately, Bayless would be much worse the Blake. He actually played excellent defense on Brooks in the first half. In the second half, Houston made a concerted effort to allow Brooks to go left, which seems to be the direction he needs to go to be effective. At that point Blake needed help to contain Brooks, but didn't get any.

He also shot a couple of threes in the game.

I am not his biggest fan, but of all the things Portland needs to do better in Houston point guard play is pretty far down the list.

 

[Nikolokolus]

All I can say is that there's no point complaining about it now, this is what we have and Blake is the best of 3 pretty less than ideal options.

I will say that I'm sure KP is seeing what's happening and that he will aggressively try to improve this team in the off-season, which has always been his MO.

 

[ABM]

I thought Blake played reasonably well last night. Relatively solid defense on Brooks, hit a few shots here and there, and actually drove and created some shots at the hoop for himself. One of those pretty big late in the game.

I had no qualms with Blake's play last night.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I thought Blake played reasonably well last night. Relatively solid defense on Brooks, hit a few shots here and there, and actually drove and created some shots at the hoop for himself. One of those pretty big late in the game.

I had no qualms with Blake's play last night.

Wow, really?

Blake was the main reason our bigs were in foul trouble last night, Brooks, Lowry and also Wafer went by him everytime down the floor. The Houston radio stations down here even said that was the game plan. Get the switch and then go by him.

 

[MrJayremmie]

Our PG position has been pretty poor so far, but Blake is simply our best option.

I wouldn't HATE putting Bayless out there and seeing what he can give us for a couple minutes, and see if Houston is the type of tema he can be effective vs (Defense and getting to the rim, 2 things we greatly need)... but I think our rotation has been pretty solid (I'd like to see Rudy get a little more time on the floor though).

I think our PG position will be taken care of though. I think next year will either be Bayless' year, or we will have a new starting PG not currently on the team... but I see Blake on our team as a backup PG and maybe even a starter for part of the year. At least that is how I see it... a consolidation trade that nets us a PG would be nice... but I'd prefer to see how Bayless develops over the off-season... the kid is going to be great, imo.

 

[RR7]

I know everyone likes to bag on his defense. I think primarily because he's from Spain, but Rudy in his brief period out there against him, did abetter job against Brooks. So did Roy. Rudy should be our starting PG. For everything we use our PG for, Rudy should be out there. He can pass better than Blake. He takes dumb chances at time, for sure, but that will get better with experience. He can actually get to the basket, and looks to be as good of a shooter, and doesn't have to be completely set to receive a pass and get off a shot. Nobody is going to shut down Chris Paul and Tony Parker, so saying we can't go with a bigger guard because of those guys seems dumb. But Rudy can play some defense, and can move his feet alot quicker than Blake can, from what I have seen. The times he gets matched up against PGs, he makes it mroe difficult on them to get to the lane.

 

[MrJayremmie]

Rudy def. needs to play more, possibly at the expense of some of Blake's minutes.

 

[ABM]

Blake was the main reason our bigs were in foul trouble last night, Brooks, Lowry and also Wafer went by him everytime down the floor. The Houston radio stations down here even said that was the game plan. Get the switch and then go by him.

That's a good point. I was essentially coming at from how Brooks fared -- points-wise. You're right, though. The bigs were reacting quite a bit. I'm sure that stemmed from how they were attacking our guards as a whole.

When I get a chance, I'm gonna go back and watch the game with this in mind.

 

[Natebishop3]

I say again, why not try Batum on Brooks?

 

[Boob-No-More]

and actually drove and created some shots at the hoop for himself.

Yep, I remember at least two times where Blake beat his man of the dribble and scored in the paint.

So much for the "can't shoot off the dribble, and won't shoot when his shot is remotely contested" criticism.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

(and have an actual PG, our only actual PG, Sergio, play all the minutes that Roy is off the floor).

If the goal is to stop the Rockets guards from penetrating, this is a step in the wrong direction. Sergio can't keep Lowry out of the paint, much less Brooks.

BNM

 

[Natebishop3]

If the goal is to stop the Rockets guards from penetrating, this is a step in the wrong direction. Sergio can't keep Lowry out of the paint, much less Brooks.

BNM

True, but Sergio was playing very good basketball at the end of the regular season. We haven't really given him a chance to show what he can do. I'm not really much of a Sergio fan, but I would love to see our team get out and run a bit more.

 

[Tortimer]

I think Nate dropped the ball when Blake came back from injury. I said it then and still believe we should have keep playing Bayless as our backup PG when Blake came back. I know Sergio has played well but he can't defend anybody and Bayless would have his confidence now and would be able to play good defense on players like Brooks. I still think Bayless is our future PG - good defender, drives to the basket and plays hard all the time. He is the perfect fit next to Roy not Blake and especially not Sergio. The Blazers need a good defender of the faster quick PG's and someone that can handle the ball early in the game when Roy doesn't need to be the PG. Roy is the man to have the ball in his hand when we need a score and especially in the 4th qtr.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think Nate dropped the ball when Blake came back from injury. I said it then and still believe we should have keep playing Bayless as our backup PG when Blake came back. I know Sergio has played well but he can't defend anybody and Bayless would have his confidence now and would be able to play good defense on players like Brooks. I still think Bayless is our future PG - good defender, drives to the basket and plays hard all the time. He is the perfect fit next to Roy not Blake and especially not Sergio. The Blazers need a good defender of the faster quick PG's and someone that can handle the ball early in the game when Roy doesn't need to be the PG. Roy is the man to have the ball in his hand when we need a score and especially in the 4th qtr.

You're right, but I'm not sure Bayless' shot is ready. He needs to be able to hit an outside jumper with consistency before he can take over the starting spot. If Bayless can't drive, he looks lost out there. I do agree that he should have been given more time earlier in the season, so he could have developed confidence by now. If we tried to give him minutes in the playoffs, he'd be on the bench with fouls with the quickness. The refs aren't going to let a rookie come in and body up on Brooks. I just don't see it happening. They're barely letting Batum play on Artest.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think Nate dropped the ball when Blake came back from injury. I said it then and still believe we should have keep playing Bayless as our backup PG when Blake came back. I know Sergio has played well but he can't defend anybody and Bayless would have his confidence now and would be able to play good defense on players like Brooks. I still think Bayless is our future PG - good defender, drives to the basket and plays hard all the time. He is the perfect fit next to Roy not Blake and especially not Sergio. The Blazers need a good defender of the faster quick PG's and someone that can handle the ball early in the game when Roy doesn't need to be the PG. Roy is the man to have the ball in his hand when we need a score and especially in the 4th qtr.

If Bayless ends up sticking in Portland I don't see it happening for at least another year.

This team is in a bit of a pickle; no longer can they afford to just throw mud at the wall and see what sticks with young players. In the past few years when they were in full rebuilding mode, it was no sweat to put guys out on the floor for 25-30 minutes a game and let them play through their mistakes and develop on the job, but now with the team cracking open their contention window maybe a year early, all of those opportunities to just go out and find your way have considerably shrunk down. Now young players need to come in and find a way to fit in with cornerstone guys like Brandon and LaMarcus and their margin for error is considerably less than it would have been in years past.

Fair or not, the team needs young guys to either be instant contributors (Rudy) or possess enough physical gifts and raw talent that you can justify slowing working them into a role with the team.

The real question is whether or not Bayless can get the minutes to actually develop with such limitations placed upon him ... especially in a position as difficult to master as point guard. If he can stay patient for another year or two it might pay dividends for him, but that's an awful risk for a guy on a rookie deal; don't be shocked if he's moved in a trade to someplace where he can get into the rotation early and often.

 

[Natebishop3]

If Bayless ends up sticking in Portland I don't see it happening for at least another year.

This team is in a bit of a pickle; no longer can they afford to just throw mud at the wall and see what sticks with young players. In the past few years when they were in full rebuilding mode, it was no sweat to put guys out on the floor for 25-30 minutes a game and let them play through their mistakes and develop on the job, but now with the team cracking open their contention window maybe a year early, all of those opportunities to just go out and find your way have considerably shrunk down. Now young players need to come in and find a way to fit in with cornerstone guys like Brandon and LaMarcus and their margin for error is considerably less than it would have been in years past.

Fair or not, the team needs young guys to either be instant contributors (Rudy) or possess enough physical gifts and raw talent that you can justify slowing working them into a role with the team.

The real question is whether or not Bayless can get the minutes to actually develop with such limitations placed upon him ... especially in a position as difficult to master as point guard. If he can stay patient for another year or two it might pay dividends for him, but that's an awful risk for a guy on a rookie deal; don't be shocked if he's moved in a trade to someplace where he can get into the rotation early and often.

True, but I never felt Jerryd got a fair shot. Batum got to play because Webster went down. We might never have known how good Nic is, or can be, if Martell had played all season. I'm not entirely sure McMillan would have played him. As it stands, we have three small forwards that could start, and a logjam that needs to be fixed before next season. Point guard is the same situation. I don't think Jerryd will be able to sustain another season on the bench. He's too competitive.

 

[Tortimer]

You're right, but I'm not sure Bayless' shot is ready. He needs to be able to hit an outside jumper with consistency before he can take over the starting spot. If Bayless can't drive, he looks lost out there. I do agree that he should have been given more time earlier in the season, so he could have developed confidence by now. If we tried to give him minutes in the playoffs, he'd be on the bench with fouls with the quickness. The refs aren't going to let a rookie come in and body up on Brooks. I just don't see it happening. They're barely letting Batum play on Artest.

I'm not saying we should have started Bayless when Blake came back. I just thought Bayless was playing well when Blake was out and he should have been the main backup instead of Sergio to get his confidence and be ready for the playoffs. I know what Nate was thinking with keeping Sergio as the main backup. Sergio was playing well and he plays better with Rudy which is a good thing for the second unit. I just think if we are going to win in the playoffs we need a hard working good defender to help slow or stop those fast/quick PG's in the West. Blake and especially Sergio are not going to stop anybody even though Blake played decent defense on AB last night..

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm not saying we should have started Bayless when Blake came back. I just thought Bayless was playing well when Blake was out and he should have been the main backup instead of Sergio to get his confidence and be ready for the playoffs. I know what Nate was thinking with keeping Sergio as the main backup. Sergio was playing well and he plays better with Rudy which is a good thing for the second unit. I just think if we are going to win in the playoffs we need a hard working good defender to help slow or stop those fast/quick PG's in the West. Blake and especially Sergio are not going to stop anybody even though Blake played decent defense on AB last night..

Ala Greg Anthony?

 

[Nikolokolus]

True, but I never felt Jerryd got a fair shot. Batum got to play because Webster went down. We might never have known how good Nic is, or can be, if Martell had played all season. I'm not entirely sure McMillan would have played him. As it stands, we have three small forwards that could start, and a logjam that needs to be fixed before next season. Point guard is the same situation. I don't think Jerryd will be able to sustain another season on the bench. He's too competitive.

I absolutely agree, which was kind of my point; success is often just as much about opportunities and circumstances as it is raw talent.

Fair or not, Jerryd got drafted to a team with a very crowded backcourt and in the limited garbage time dribs and drabs of minutes he got for most of the season, he was never able to get in rhythm, minus the month when Blake went down and he (and Sergio to be fair) played with much more confidence, knowing that there was no hook if he made a mistake.

This is why I think it's absolutely critical for consolidation to take place; we are overloaded with young guys all trying to figure out where they fit in the league and not enough minutes for all of them to reach their full potential. I know some people would love to see KP keep everything as-is and go forward with this roster for the next 6 or 7 years, but they are only seeing things from a fan's perspective and failing to take into account what might be in the best interest of the players from their perspective: They want to play, they want to get paid and they want to win, sitting on the bench of a winning team as your rookie scale deal winds down like a ticking clock is not enough and pretty much guarantees that your ability to get a second contract and some playing time is severely diminished.

 

[Tortimer]

If Bayless ends up sticking in Portland I don't see it happening for at least another year.

This team is in a bit of a pickle; no longer can they afford to just throw mud at the wall and see what sticks with young players. In the past few years when they were in full rebuilding mode, it was no sweat to put guys out on the floor for 25-30 minutes a game and let them play through their mistakes and develop on the job, but now with the team cracking open their contention window maybe a year early, all of those opportunities to just go out and find your way have considerably shrunk down. Now young players need to come in and find a way to fit in with cornerstone guys like Brandon and LaMarcus and their margin for error is considerably less than it would have been in years past.

Fair or not, the team needs young guys to either be instant contributors (Rudy) or possess enough physical gifts and raw talent that you can justify slowing working them into a role with the team.

The real question is whether or not Bayless can get the minutes to actually develop with such limitations placed upon him ... especially in a position as difficult to master as point guard. If he can stay patient for another year or two it might pay dividends for him, but that's an awful risk for a guy on a rookie deal; don't be shocked if he's moved in a trade to someplace where he can get into the rotation early and often.

That's isn't correct IMO. We need to get Bayless experience and confidence ASAP. We can't win or at least go very far in the playoffs with Sergio or even Blake as our only PG's. Bayless was playing well when Blake was out but so was Sergio. Nate made his discision to go with Sergio when Blake came back and I can see his reasoning I just think it was short sighted and Nate was only worrying about making playoffs not with what would be better once we got in them. If Nate/KP decide Bayless isn't the guy next year we can't wait for him to develop in 2-3 years. I said the same thing when AB was in the draft. I wanted the Blazers to draft him but knew we (Nate) probably wouldn't play him. I just would bet anything AB wouldn't be the player he is now if he was on the Blazers. Blazer fans would still be posting we need a PG when AB would be sitting the bench just as Bayless is right now. I'm a huge Duck fan and love AB but from watching a lot of pac10 basketball Bayless has a better game for the NBA IMO and we are wasting it right now for Sergio. I will say right now with almost 100% confidence if we decide Bayless isn't our PG and trade him he will develop to be a great NBA PG better then AB.

 

[Nikolokolus]

That's isn't correct IMO. We need to get Bayless experience and confidence ASAP. We can't win or at least go very far in the playoffs with Sergio or even Blake as our only PG's. Bayless was playing well when Blake was out but so was Sergio. Nate made his discision to go with Sergio when Blake came back and I can see his reasoning I just think it was short sighted and Nate was only worry about making playofffs not with what would be better once we got in them. If Nate/KP decide Bayless isn't the guy next year we can't wait for him to develop in 2-3 years. I said the same thing when AB was in the draft. I wanted the Blazers to draft him but knew we (Nate) probably wouldn't play him. I just would bet anything AB wouldn't be the player he is now if he was on the Blazers. Blazer fans would still be posting we need a PG when AB would be stitting the bench just as Bayless is right now. I'm a huge Duck fan and love AB but from watching a lot of pac10 basketball Bayless has a better game for the NBA IMO and we are wasting it right now for Sergio. I will say right now with almost 100% confidence if we decide Bayless isn't our PG and trade him he will develop to be a great NBA PG better the AB.

I'm not sure who 'AB' is. Aaron Brooks?

Anyway, I agree that if we trade Bayless he probably will develop into a very good player in a few years as long as he gets the right opportunity. But, this is the dilemma of being a young team with playoff and championship aspirations, there isn't a lot of floor time for players to work through their struggles, especially a struggling point guard which usually leads to a stalled offense and a stalled offense then leads to losses which hurts your chances of getting into the playoffs.

Jerryd probably does need the time to develop but there is a bit of a tradeoff here, if you play Bayless more then you had better be prepared for a few more losses in the short run as he finds his way; that would run counter to a coach's mandate, which is to put the team on the floor best equipped to win.

 

[Natebishop3]

That's isn't correct IMO. We need to get Bayless experience and confidence ASAP. We can't win or at least go very far in the playoffs with Sergio or even Blake as our only PG's. Bayless was playing well when Blake was out but so was Sergio. Nate made his discision to go with Sergio when Blake came back and I can see his reasoning I just think it was short sighted and Nate was only worrying about making playoffs not with what would be better once we got in them. If Nate/KP decide Bayless isn't the guy next year we can't wait for him to develop in 2-3 years. I said the same thing when AB was in the draft. I wanted the Blazers to draft him but knew we (Nate) probably wouldn't play him. I just would bet anything AB wouldn't be the player he is now if he was on the Blazers. Blazer fans would still be posting we need a PG when AB would be sitting the bench just as Bayless is right now. I'm a huge Duck fan and love AB but from watching a lot of pac10 basketball Bayless has a better game for the NBA IMO and we are wasting it right now for Sergio. I will say right now with almost 100% confidence if we decide Bayless isn't our PG and trade him he will develop to be a great NBA PG better then AB.

I think most people would agree that Bayless is going to be a damn find ball player. There's no doubt about that. I think some people are unsure if he's actually a point guard, and how he would fit in our rotation. I think he fits next to Roy perfectly, but he has to be able to run the offense too. That takes time.

I absolutely agree, which was kind of my point; success is often just as much about opportunities and circumstances as it is raw talent.

Fair or not, Jerryd got drafted to a team with a very crowded backcourt and in the limited garbage time dribs and drabs of minutes he got for most of the season, he was never able to get in rhythm, minus the month when Blake went down and he (and Sergio to be fair) played with much more confidence, knowing that there was no hook if he made a mistake.

This is why I think it's absolutely critical for consolidation to take place; we are overloaded with young guys all trying to figure out where they fit in the league and not enough minutes for all of them to reach their full potential. I know some people would love to see KP keep everything as-is and go forward with this roster for the next 6 or 7 years, but they are only seeing things from a fan's perspective and failing to take into account what might be in the best interest of the players from their perspective: They want to play, they want to get paid and they want to win, sitting on the bench of a winning team as your rookie scale deal winds down like a ticking clock is not enough and pretty much guarantees that your ability to get a second contract and some playing time is severely diminished.

That's what scares me. I don't think people realize how frustrating it is for a young guy to rot on the bench. I don't think people realize how frustrated and mad Travis Outlaw was during his rookie season. How many times he called his agent to complain about his playing time. How many times he wanted to be traded out of Portland... and that was Travis Outlaw, the raw and uncoordinated rookie. Think about how frustrated Jerryd Bayless must be?

 

[Tortimer]

I'm not sure who 'AB' is. Aaron Brooks?

Anyway, I agree that if we trade Bayless he probably will develop into a very good player in a few years as long as he gets the right opportunity. But, this is the dilemma of being a young team with playoff and championship aspirations, there isn't a lot of floor time for players to work through their struggles, especially a struggling point guard which usually leads to a stalled offense and a stalled offense then leads to losses which hurts your chances of getting into the playoffs.

Jerryd probably does need the time to develop but there is a bit of a tradeoff here, if you play Bayless more then you had better be prepared for a few more losses in the short run as he finds his way; that would run counter to a coach's mandate, which is to put the team on the floor best equipped to win.

Sorry, yes AB is short for Aaron Brooks. I agree with what you were saying and we might lose a couple more games then we would have with sticking with Sergio as the main backup but maybe not. If Bayless was given the confidence from Nate after Blake came back he would have keep playing well IMO and would have even played better at the end of the year. I think now when AB is burning Blake we would have the confidence to put Bayless on AB to at least slow him down. When Bayless has his confidence and playing with Roy we would be tough for anybody to stop us. Both players would be looking to drive to the basket and would put a lot of pressure on Yao. I also think from watching a lot of Bayless's games in college that he should be a lot better shooter. I just think he is trying to work on being a PG and being scared of being pulled when he is playing. I think where ever he plays and get minutes he will develop into a good outside shooter, great defender and a fearless attacker to the basket.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Ala Greg Anthony?

Yes.

Sadly, that is also the kind of player you will never see KP trade for. Modest trades, even when they help the team, don't let you "Pritchslap" the opposition.

 

[Minstrel]

Yes.

Sadly, that is also the kind of player you will never see KP trade for. Modest trades, even when they help the team, don't let you "Pritchslap" the opposition.

Like James Jones?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Yes.

Sadly, that is also the kind of player you will never see KP trade for. Modest trades, even when they help the team, don't let you "Pritchslap" the opposition.

Oh, I totally disagree. KP made a very modest trade for James Jones just to get them a veteran wing who could shoot the three ball and provide a little bit of veteran leadership. I have full confidence that he'll look to add complimentary pieces to his core of Brandon, LMA and Greg (Rudy and Batum too I guess).

 

[Nikolokolus]

Like James Jones?

great minds think alike

 

[oldmangrouch]

Right now, the most probable outcome for Bayless, is that he becomes a Jason Terry style 6th man. If he is going to become a PG, he is going to have to really buckle down and work at it.

 

[oldmangrouch]

great minds think alike

KP didn't set out to aquire Jones - taking on his contract (and his bad wheels) was part of the price tag for Rudy.

Besides, if Jones had been healthy, it might have gone down as a double Pritchslap!