Bayless Reminds Me Of...

[BalancedMan]

I mentioned it in an earlier thread, but does anyone else see a parallel between Gilbert Arenas and Jerryd Bayless?

Compare their stats in college.

Bayless: 19.7 PTs, 2.7 RBs, 4 AST, 1 STL, 3 TO, 46% FG, 41% 3PT, 84% FT

Arenas : 15.4 PTS, 4.1 RBs, 2.1 AST, 2.1 STL, 2.6 TO, 45% FG, 29% 3PT, 75% FT
(Soph) : 16.2 PTS, 3.6 RBs, 2.3 AST, 1.8 STL, 2.3 TO, 47% FG, 41% 3PT, 72% FT

For quick reference, I've put the best stat for each category in bold. Both players were PG/SG tweeners who went to Arizona. Both fell further in the draft than they were expected to. Both did not play much to begin their pro careers. Is expecting Bayless to become the next Gilbert too optimistic? It certainly isn't what I expect to happen, but I don't think that it is entirely unrealistic either.

So all the talk about using Bayless as a trading chip needs to stop. He isn't Javaris Crittenton. I fully expect him to eventually live up to the Summer League hype and be a strong piece of the team.

[video=youtube;5Giw8rKT4Dg]

 

[DaRizzle]

Do you know how many hundreds of players had those same stats in college? This is beyond a stretch. Who knows what Bayless will turn into but your "rational" is bogus.

I didnt make my HS freshman bball team...Why didnt I attain the skills of Jordan dammit?!?

 

[BalancedMan]

Do you know how many hundreds of players had those same stats in college?

No. Probably a good amount, but not necessarily as a freshman in a major conference on a team with other established good college players.

This is beyond a stretch. Who knows what Bayless will turn into but your "rational" is bogus.

Why did you quote "rational"? While my logic may have some flaws, I think comparing stats is a fair exercise.

I didnt make my HS freshman bball team...Why didnt I attain the skills of Jordan dammit?!?

Because you're lazy, aren't 6'6" and weren't graced with world-class athleticism. I doubt you practiced for hours on end to make the team the next season.

 

[DaRizzle]

Why did you quote "rational"?

Cause you think it is but it isnt

 

[NattaNerNuttaMan]

I mentioned it in an earlier thread, but does anyone else see a parallel between Gilbert Arenas and Jerryd Bayless?

Compare their stats in college.

Bayless: 19.7 PTs, 2.7 RBs, 4 AST, 1 STL, 3 TO, 46% FG, 41% 3PT, 84% FT

Arenas : 15.4 PTS, 4.1 RBs, 2.1 AST, 2.1 STL, 2.6 TO, 45% FG, 29% 3PT, 75% FT
(Soph) : 16.2 PTS, 3.6 RBs, 2.3 AST, 1.8 STL, 2.3 TO, 47% FG, 41% 3PT, 72% FT

For quick reference, I've put the best stat for each category in bold. Both players were PG/SG tweeners who went to Arizona. Both fell further in the draft than they were expected to. Both did not play much to begin their pro careers. Is expecting Bayless to become the next Gilbert too optimistic? It certainly isn't what I expect to happen, but I don't think that it is entirely unrealistic either.

So all the talk about using Bayless as a trading chip needs to stop. He isn't Javaris Crittenton. I fully expect him to eventually live up to the Summer League hype and be a strong piece of the team.

It is a very big stretch to compare players by what they did in college...it's a vastly different thing than the NBA. And too many factors contribute to these numbers...until Bayless gets some NBA games under his belt I wouldn't even start comparing him to an All-Star

...and I never hold too much weight in Summer League games...they are putting up those numbers against rookies and undrafted players trying to get contracts....sooo....It a nice way to get a look at players, but I don't read too much into it

 

[JAFO]

I mentioned it in an earlier thread, but does anyone else see a parallel between Gilbert Arenas and Jerryd Bayless?

Compare their stats in college.

Bayless: 19.7 PTs, 2.7 RBs, 4 AST, 1 STL, 3 TO, 46% FG, 41% 3PT, 84% FT

Arenas : 15.4 PTS, 4.1 RBs, 2.1 AST, 2.1 STL, 2.6 TO, 45% FG, 29% 3PT, 75% FT
(Soph) : 16.2 PTS, 3.6 RBs, 2.3 AST, 1.8 STL, 2.3 TO, 47% FG, 41% 3PT, 72% FT

For quick reference, I've put the best stat for each category in bold. Both players were PG/SG tweeners who went to Arizona. Both fell further in the draft than they were expected to. Both did not play much to begin their pro careers. Is expecting Bayless to become the next Gilbert too optimistic? It certainly isn't what I expect to happen, but I don't think that it is entirely unrealistic either.

So all the talk about using Bayless as a trading chip needs to stop. He isn't Javaris Crittenton. I fully expect him to eventually live up to the Summer League hype and be a strong piece of the team.

No, I don't. In fact, I think they are nothing alike. But then, I am not as clarivoyant as you.
But for quick reference here are their 1st year stats (to date), which I think are a better measure.

GA: 24.6 mpg, 45.3 fg%, 77.5 ft%, 34.5 3pt%, 2.8 rpg, 3.7 apg, 1.5 spg, and 10.9 ppg for 47 games

JB: 7.9 mpg, 18.8 fg%, 72.2 ft%, 16.7 3pt%, 0.9 rpg, 1.0 apg, 0.3 spg, and 1.7 ppg for 15 games (so far)

Since many posters have stipulated that all of the Blazers - except for the big 3 - are eligible for trade, I am quite happy to be a proponent for trading Bayless.

In KP I trust!

Go Blazers!

JAFO

 

[Mr. J]

It's hard to gauge a player based on stats alone, but I have heard many scouts/pundits alike compare him to Gilbert Arenas before, so it's nothing egregious. It might be due to the Arizona connection, but there are similarities in playing style.

Bayless as a freshman still put up 20 PPG as a freshman at an excellent program in Arizona, so it is something to consider. JAFO, even though Bayless has looked disappointing so far, you have to consider that Arenas (if I'm not mistaken) played two years at Arizona, while Bayless only played one.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Besides them both playing for AZ, the fact that Jerryd hasn't found his scoring touch and seems more commited to defense than Gil ever was, I'm not sure where the comparisons are coming from?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Bayless reminds me more of Antonio Daniels. A tough minded "tweener".

 

[ABM]

Bayless reminds me more of Antonio Daniels. A tough minded "tweener".

One difference is, Daniels is a scrub.

 

[C_note]

How the hell did you come up with this comparison? LOL

 

[MrJayremmie]

I don't see the comparison.

I think Bayless can be more of a passer than a volume shooter, and a much better defender. They are both combo guards though, and both went to ARizona i suppose.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

I don't see the comparison.

I think Bayless can be more of a passer than a volume shooter, and a much better defender. They are both combo guards though, and both went to ARizona i suppose.

I agree.

We haven't seen enough of the NBA version of Bayless to compare him to anyone yet.

 

[hasoos]

Well they do havea few things in common. They went to school at the same place. They were coached in the same style. Does Bayless play like most Arizona guards (score first) yep. But besides that, Bayless needs to raise his scoring average by about 25 points a game to even come close to what Arenas was 2 years ago.

 

[alex42083]

They're both listed at 6-3, but Arenas seems a lot taller to me than Bayless for some reason. I don't know... I think they have completely different games. Gilbert would rather shoot from the perimeter while Bayless is more of a penetrator. But if Jerryd has anywhere near the impact that Gil did pre-injury, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

 

[BalancedMan]

No, I don't. In fact, I think they are nothing alike. But then, I am not as clarivoyant as you.
But for quick reference here are their 1st year stats (to date), which I think are a better measure.

GA: 24.6 mpg, 45.3 fg%, 77.5 ft%, 34.5 3pt%, 2.8 rpg, 3.7 apg, 1.5 spg, and 10.9 ppg for 47 games

JB: 7.9 mpg, 18.8 fg%, 72.2 ft%, 16.7 3pt%, 0.9 rpg, 1.0 apg, 0.3 spg, and 1.7 ppg for 15 games (so far)

Since many posters have stipulated that all of the Blazers - except for the big 3 - are eligible for trade, I am quite happy to be a proponent for trading Bayless.

In KP I trust!

Go Blazers!

JAFO

Those stats are crap, because you're comparing less than half a season for Bayless to a whole season of Gilbert. Did you not watch the commercial. Take a look at the game log from Gilbert's rookie season:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3540/gamelog;_ylt=Amps3_5Zju7WnF2r5EUCveihPKB4?year=2001

Doesn't look like Gilbert barely even touched the floor until he ended up becoming a starter, something a bunch of people were guestimating would happen with Bayless (be the starter after the ASG) this year. Now I don't think that this will happen, but comparing rookie situations is different as Gil played on a bad Warriors team and thus he was given free reign.

Really? Most of you can't see a connection? Weird.

 

[BalancedMan]

How the hell did you come up with this comparison? LOL

1. Both players went to Arizona
2. Both players are about 6'3" and are considered somewhat of a SG in a PG's body
3. Both players slid on draft day from where they were projected (by about 10 spots).
4. Both players rarely got off the pine for the first half of the season.
5. Both players had similar college numbers.

Now, there are several factors that are unknown. Their actual athleticism. Their work ethic. Their mental stability. etc. And they differ by being in different situations as a rookie. But both are considered good scorers, and that isn't something that Bayless forgot how to do. It' just hard to get into a rhythm when you don't play many minutes or consistently. If Bayless had 30 minutes a game, I have no doubt he would have very impressive numbers for a rookie, but given the play of Blake/Sergio, that just isn't going to happen for a while.

 

[STOMP]

They're both listed at 6-3, but Arenas seems a lot taller to me than Bayless for some reason. I don't know... I think they have completely different games. Gilbert would rather shoot from the perimeter while Bayless is more of a penetrator. But if Jerryd has anywhere near the impact that Gil did pre-injury, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

Gilbert drives to the hole a lot as evidenced by his FTA stats. Dude averaged around 10 attempts a game his last two healthy seasons.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/gilbert_arenas/career_stats.html

STOMP

 

[THE HCP]

Too early!

 

[BalancedMan]

Too early!

That's part of my point. People are almost writing Bayless off, treating him as a throw-in or filler on trade proposals. For example, for David Lee, who we wouldn't probably resign as a RFA?


I just don't get it. Yes, Bayless is unproven. That doesn't mean he is worth so little. I have confidence in KP and the management that they will not "give up" on Bayless so quickly, but let him develop into "Brandon RoyJ unior" or "Mini-me Gilbert Arenas" .

 

[number 10]

Monta Ellis might be the better comparison, but in any case it's far too early for any of that. Suffice to say that Bayless is a young, talented combo guard with ridiculous athleticism.

 

[BalancedMan]

Monta Ellis might be the better comparison, but in any case it's far too early for any of that. Suffice to say that Bayless is a young, talented combo guard with ridiculous athleticism.

I think Bayless is a better outside shooter than Ellis.

 

[alex42083]

Gilbert drives to the hole a lot as evidenced by his FTA stats. Dude averaged around 10 attempts a game his last two healthy seasons.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/gilbert_arenas/career_stats.html

STOMP

He has also attempted nearly 1,700 three-pointers the last three healthy seasons, which is 7-8 a game. The guy just shoots a lot. He's still more of a stop on a dime, jump-shot type player though. I bet many of his FTAs come off getting defenders into the air.

 

[bigbailes]

yes they are both combo guards that's about where the comparison has to stop. JB hasn't played nearly enough to make an informed opinion, then again on these boards informed opinions are few and far between. two weeks ago someone compared him to a cross between drexler and dWade, i'd say the Arenas comparison is far more likely.

i love the term "combo guard", why don't we call it what it is, a SG in a PG's body

 

[Minstrel]

i love the term "combo guard", why don't we call it what it is, a SG in a PG's body

Because combo guards have better passing and ball-handling skills than pure shooting guards. Reggie Miller or Rip Hamilton wouldn't be "combo guards" even if they were shorter.

 

[BalancedMan]

Because combo guards have better passing and ball-handling skills than pure shooting guards. Reggie Miller or Rip Hamilton wouldn't be "combo guards" even if they were shorter.

Like Juan Dixon is not a "Combo" guard. Jeff Hornacek was.

 

[bigbailes]

reggie miller and rip hamilton are both 6'7" so they are not the size of most PG's. i'm sorry but i don't see anything that tells me bayless is a PG except his size and the general notion that PG's are smaller than SG's.

 

[Minstrel]

reggie miller and rip hamilton are both 6'7" so they are not the size of most PG's.

Please re-read what I said:

Because combo guards have better passing and ball-handling skills than pure shooting guards. Reggie Miller or Rip Hamilton wouldn't be "combo guards" even if they were shorter.

 

[bigbailes]

but then they probably wouldn't have been the same player and may have had to develop those skills. no they are long and lanky and had those skills. we can go round and round but flat out, imo, he's a SG in a PG body, he doesn't show the skills that most good PG's have.

 

[BalancedMan]

but then they probably wouldn't have been the same player and may have had to develop those skills. no they are long and lanky and had those skills. we can go round and round but flat out, imo, he's a SG in a PG body, he doesn't show the skills that most good PG's have.

Does Gilbert Arenas? And if not, would you want a similar type of player on this team along side Roy?