Bayless

[Rastapopoulos]

Let's face it: Bayless has already fulfilled his purpose as a Blazer: he made summer league fun. But now he's a too-short SG on a team with two all-star SGs ahead of him.

The dream is that he can be made into a PG along Tony Parker lines. He can't. Parker always was a PG, and was trained as such in Europe, a place much less tolerant of 1-on-5 play. Bayless thinks he's a PG, but only because that means he controls the ball. He doesn't appear to have a conception of moving the ball as a first option. I see him as one of our definite expendables. Oddly enough, Kevin Pritchard was right on the money when he described him as "Jarrett Jack on steroids". Only he seems to have meant that as a good thing. And he lacks Jack's most positive attributes: leadership skills and likeability. I'm more convinced than ever that the Blazers were after Augustine and were shocked when Charlotte snagged him. Thoughts?

 

[BlazerFanForLife]

I think Bayless will develop into a great player along the lines of a Baron Davis style point guard, he may never average above 7 or so assists but he won't need to with other great distributors on this team like Roy and Rudy, also Greg is a good passing bigman which should help Bayless because it was rumored during the summer that he was one of the better Blazer 3 point shooters. I don't understand why people are trying to throw the guy under the bus so soon, hes in the NBA after only 1 year in college where he was allowed to do whatever he liked with the ball. This is probably one of the first times Bayless has had to actually learn an offensive system that doesn't just let him create his own shot.

Take a deep breath, and come back with the argument at the end of Bayless's 2nd year.

 

[Ed O]

Bayless can still emerge as a GREAT match in the back court with Roy and Rudy. He's going to be able to defend PGs and he's potentially a scoring machine, getting to the rim and the free throw line.

I don't think he's been anything more or less than we expected as a rookie, and it's WAY too early to write him off.

Ed O.

 

[hasoos]

You sure do draw a whole lot of conclusions for the whole 10 minutes he has played this season.

 

[crowTrobot]

my thought - deron williams didn't really look like an NBA point guard his first year either.

bayless is 19. give him a chance.

 

[LittleAlex]

I think Bayless will develop into a great player along the lines of a Baron Davis style point guard, he may never average above 7 or so assists but he won't need to with other great distributors on this team like Roy and Rudy, also Greg is a good passing bigman which should help Bayless because it was rumored during the summer that he was one of the better Blazer 3 point shooters. I don't understand why people are trying to throw the guy under the bus so soon, hes in the NBA after only 1 year in college where he was allowed to do whatever he liked with the ball. This is probably one of the first times Bayless has had to actually learn an offensive system that doesn't just let him create his own shot.

Take a deep breath, and come back with the argument at the end of Bayless's 2nd year.

I won't throw Bayless under the bus, but if he becomes as good as Baron Davis I will be shocked. Oh, and very, very happy.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Kid has played what, 10 minutes in three regular season games? No need to rush with him, I think he would fit perfectly with Roy in the backcourt.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Let's face it: Bayless has already fulfilled his purpose as a Blazer: he made summer league fun. But now he's a too-short SG on a team with two all-star SGs ahead of him.

The dream is that he can be made into a PG along Tony Parker lines. He can't. Parker always was a PG, and was trained as such in Europe, a place much less tolerant of 1-on-5 play. Bayless thinks he's a PG, but only because that means he controls the ball. He doesn't appear to have a conception of moving the ball as a first option. I see him as one of our definite expendables. Oddly enough, Kevin Pritchard was right on the money when he described him as "Jarrett Jack on steroids". Only he seems to have meant that as a good thing. And he lacks Jack's most positive attributes: leadership skills and likeability. I'm more convinced than ever that the Blazers were after Augustine and were shocked when Charlotte snagged him. Thoughts?

In general, I agree with this post.

However, I see him along the lines of a Terry Porter. If we give him a few years he may develop into a servicable PG with a tougher than nails mentality.

 

[RoyToy]

IMO with Roy being so passive on offense at times for the Blazers, Bayless is a perfect fit with Roy since maybe Bayless will pick up where Roy is a little too passive at times - scoring. Bayless is also a pretty good defender with good size for a PG.

 

[Reep]

I too am willing to wait on Bayless. He can play with Roy or Rudy and make a great backcourt mate. Bayless can defend and score, and has some playmaking abilities. You have to remember that he is a very young PG prospect. Not too many of those can run a team at his age. Rose can't--he can score, but he isn't exactly running the offense well for Chicago. Most PGs need time to get up to speed.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Let's face it: Bayless has already fulfilled his purpose as a Blazer: he made summer league fun. But now he's a too-short SG on a team with two all-star SGs ahead of him.

The dream is that he can be made into a PG along Tony Parker lines. He can't. Parker always was a PG, and was trained as such in Europe, a place much less tolerant of 1-on-5 play. Bayless thinks he's a PG, but only because that means he controls the ball. He doesn't appear to have a conception of moving the ball as a first option. I see him as one of our definite expendables. Oddly enough, Kevin Pritchard was right on the money when he described him as "Jarrett Jack on steroids". Only he seems to have meant that as a good thing. And he lacks Jack's most positive attributes: leadership skills and likeability. I'm more convinced than ever that the Blazers were after Augustine and were shocked when Charlotte snagged him. Thoughts?

What the fuck is it with people this year? Are we seriously writing Bayless' obit as a Blazer after a whopping grand total of 10 minutes of play in the pros?

Why don't we all just sit back and try to enjoy the development of our young players this year and see how things play out?

 

[maxiep]

You sure do draw a whole lot of conclusions for the whole 10 minutes he has played this season.

Can't we just give someone a season or two before we come to a drastic conclusion?

 

[hhhoggg]

In general, I agree with this post.

However, I see him along the lines of a Terry Porter. If we give him a few years he may develop into a servicable PG with a tougher than nails mentality.

This is what we need from someone, Bayless looks and acts the part if only he could instill it into LaMarcus.

 

[BrianFromWA]

What the fuck is it with people this year? Are we seriously writing Bayless' obit as a Blazer after a whopping grand total of 10 minutes of play in the pros?

Why don't we all just sit back and try to enjoy the development of our young players this year and see how things play out?

While I agree with you, what development is he getting pulling pine splinters out of his butt? I mean, when they needed a defensive upgrade against Parker, they put Batum in, not the "defensive minded PG/SG".

If he (and this goes for Batum as well) is getting big minutes, no worries. If not, he's not "developing", he's "sitting".

 

[rocketeer]

While I agree with you, what development is he getting pulling pine splinters out of his butt? I mean, when they needed a defensive upgrade against Parker, they put Batum in, not the "defensive minded PG/SG".

If he (and this goes for Batum as well) is getting big minutes, no worries. If not, he's not "developing", he's "sitting".

it's not possible for him to be developing as a player in practice?

 

[e_blazer]

You sure do draw a whole lot of conclusions for the whole 10 minutes he has played this season.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Ed O]

it's not possible for him to be developing as a player in practice?

It absolutely is. Jermaine O'Neal ended up doing pretty well after he got traded and finally got playing time.

Ed O.

 

[STOMP]

What the fuck is it with people this year? Are we seriously writing Bayless' obit as a Blazer after a whopping grand total of 10 minutes of play in the pros?

Why don't we all just sit back and try to enjoy the development of our young players this year and see how things play out?

I saw the OP a few minutes after it went up and laughed about the comments that were sure to follow. It always amazes me how some seem over every little bump in the road. It's like they want to be the first one to suggest the outragious thing that no other Blazer fan has come up with yet.

Unfortunately (for others of us) this is the culture that many obviously want surrounding the Blazers. Whatchagonnado?

STOMP

 

[Nikolokolus]

I saw the OP a few minutes after it went up and laughed about the comments that were sure to follow. It always amazes me how some seem over every little bump in the road. It's like they want to be the first one to suggest the outragious thing that no other Blazer fan has come up with yet.

Unfortunately (for others of us) this is the culture that many obviously want surrounding the Blazers. Whatchagonnado?

STOMP

It'd be super cool if people stopped acting like whiny little bitches, but alas that is probably too much to ask.

 

[Ed O]

It'd be super cool if people stopped acting like whiny little bitches, but alas that is probably too much to ask.

There's a difference between complaining about the team and calling fellow posters "whiny little bitches". Can we be a bit more respectful towards each other here?

Thanks

Ed O.

 

[Iwatas]

The solution, of course, is to trade Blake, Raef and Outlaw for a stud SF... allowing Bayless to start (with Roy playing PG on offense), and Sergio to get heavy minutes with the second unit.

iWatas

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Am I to assume that I'm one of the "whiny little bitches"? Well, get ready to suffer more of my bitchy whining, which apparently, you find hard to take. What would that make you?

From ample experience in pickup games and watching basketball, I believe that there are two kinds of players: the ones who have to "dominate" the game and do not think of the team as a unit, and can't really feel happy unless they have the ball in their hands, and the kind that honestly don't care who's scoring so long as the team wins. From everything I've seen of Bayless, he is the former. When is that okay? When you're Michael Jordan. (Or in highschool, where you can be the Michael Jordan of your own little corner of the world. But even there, Bayless didn't win a state championship, did he? Even in Arizona, not exactly a basketball hotbed. And his stacked Arizona college team underachieved.)

But, people say, all successful basketball players are like that. No, they're not, and anyone who's played much pickup ball knows that. There are players who are clearly better than anyone else on their team who are still prepared to get them involved, and they tend to win. Brandon Roy is that kind of player. Terry Porter was that kind of player.

It's doubly bad when your PG has that feature. I have seen players who even have the ability to pass as well as score, who just won't because they just seem to assume that their teammates are there solely to set picks for them and are honored to be in their presence. Maybe they'll work something out with one other player and work a two-man game with them, but that's about it.

Bayless has been projected as a star for a long time. You can find plenty of footage from his college and high school days on YouTube. Find me one instance where he plays like a PG.
"So what" you say (like a whiny little bitch) "he can learn the position". Bullshit. Nobody outside of POSSIBLY Terry Porter and Chauncey Billups (and those players, I would argue, had the second personality type) learns PG in the NBA. If it was possible, Jarrett Jack would've done it.

Why are we excited about Bayless? Because he tore up Summer League. But he did that AS A SHOOTING GUARD. Early on they TRIED to have him play the point. It was a disaster. He can't do it. (And I find it worrying that
(a) while he was "tearing it up", we all thought Batum was a bust. Hmm, maybe playing with a ball hog stunted his game?
(b) in the final game that Bayless sat out, JR Pinnock put up IDENTICAL numbers playing SG in that system. And nobody seems to have jumped on the chance to sign him.

I'd be happy to be proved wrong, but right now I see Bayless as expendable and I don't see him being a happy camper in the forseeable future. Brandon Roy, Rudy Fernandez and even Outlaw and Webster do what he does, and he has no more PG skills (except possibly bringing it up the court, but even Telfair had that) than any of them.

Trust me, I know. I pronounced Telfair a bust at about this point in his career...

 

[Nikolokolus]

Am I to assume that I'm one of the "whiny little bitches"? Well, get ready to suffer more of my bitchy whining, which apparently, you find hard to take. What would that make you?

From ample experience in pickup games and watching basketball, I believe that there are two kinds of players: the ones who have to "dominate" the game and do not think of the team as a unit, and can't really feel happy unless they have the ball in their hands, and the kind that honestly don't care who's scoring so long as the team wins. From everything I've seen of Bayless, he is the former. When is that okay? When you're Michael Jordan. (Or in highschool, where you can be the Michael Jordan of your own little corner of the world. But even there, Bayless didn't win a state championship, did he? Even in Arizona, not exactly a basketball hotbed. And his stacked Arizona college team underachieved.)

But, people say, all successful basketball players are like that. No, they're not, and anyone who's played much pickup ball knows that. There are players who are clearly better than anyone else on their team who are still prepared to get them involved, and they tend to win. Brandon Roy is that kind of player. Terry Porter was that kind of player.

It's doubly bad when your PG has that feature. I have seen players who even have the ability to pass as well as score, who just won't because they just seem to assume that their teammates are there solely to set picks for them and are honored to be in their presence. Maybe they'll work something out with one other player and work a two-man game with them, but that's about it.

Bayless has been projected as a star for a long time. You can find plenty of footage from his college and high school days on YouTube. Find me one instance where he plays like a PG.
"So what" you say (like a whiny little bitch) "he can learn the position". Bullshit. Nobody outside of POSSIBLY Terry Porter and Chauncey Billups (and those players, I would argue, had the second personality type) learns PG in the NBA. If it was possible, Jarrett Jack would've done it.

Why are we excited about Bayless? Because he tore up Summer League. But he did that AS A SHOOTING GUARD. Early on they TRIED to have him play the point. It was a disaster. He can't do it. (And I find it worrying that
(a) while he was "tearing it up", we all thought Batum was a bust. Hmm, maybe playing with a ball hog stunted his game?
(b) in the final game that Bayless sat out, JR Pinnock put up IDENTICAL numbers playing SG in that system. And nobody seems to have jumped on the chance to sign him.

I'd be happy to be proved wrong, but right now I see Bayless as expendable and I don't see him being a happy camper in the forseeable future. Brandon Roy, Rudy Fernandez and even Outlaw and Webster do what he does, and he has no more PG skills (except possibly bringing it up the court, but even Telfair had that) than any of them.

Trust me, I know. I pronounced Telfair a bust at about this point in his career...

I wasn't calling you out specifically, it was more a comment directed at the general "tone" of despair and anger which has gripped the board with nothing more than 3 games to look at (a tea, minus two key starters no less) so apologize for the insult ... I was out of line.

It's just getting pretty tiresome seeing the barrage of hand wringing, complaining and "player X" sucks/should be traded/etc. when we're only 3 games into the season, playing what is arguably the roughest first 20 games to start a season I have ever seen.

My only wish would be to see people hold off on their downer posts until we've actually had a chance to see what this team is going to be -- I probably should take a break from the board.

 

[Nikolokolus]

There's a difference between complaining about the team and calling fellow posters "whiny little bitches". Can we be a bit more respectful towards each other here?

Thanks

Ed O.

My bad, I was out of line. I wasn't specifically calling out the OP, just reacting to the general pall and downer tone that seems to have permeated the board in the last week.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

1. Bayless being a "too-short" SG on THIS team isn't a bad thing.

2. His purpose is hardly fulfilled.

3. I too believe Portland was truly after Augustine.

 

[MARIS61]

Oddly enough, Kevin Pritchard was right on the money when he described him as "Jarrett Jack on steroids". Only he seems to have meant that as a good thing.

What KP meant by that is that he will trade him much faster.

I think we should keep him as a good 3rd SG for a couple years and see where we are then.

He will never be a good PG, doesn't want to be a PG, and it's a waste of time to try to make him a PG.

It would be much easier to improve his defense against SG's.

His speed makes up for his shortness.

 

[Furball]

I heard Nate say tonight that he was going to experiement with Rudy and Nic playing with the starting lineup. I would love to see Rudy and Roy play together, and if they thrive, Bayless and Steve on the second unit would be fun to watch. I like Bayless. He has the one ability that is the hardest to teach in the League. Getting to the hoop and drawing fouls.

 

[mook]

Why are we excited about Bayless? Because he tore up Summer League. But he did that AS A SHOOTING GUARD. Early on they TRIED to have him play the point. It was a disaster. He can't do it. (And I find it worrying that
(a) while he was "tearing it up", we all thought Batum was a bust. Hmm, maybe playing with a ball hog stunted his game?
(b) in the final game that Bayless sat out, JR Pinnock put up IDENTICAL numbers playing SG in that system. And nobody seems to have jumped on the chance to sign him.
....
Trust me, I know. I pronounced Telfair a bust at about this point in his career...

Nice post, Rasta. Not that I necessarily completely agree with it, but you brought an interesting perspective with a little evidence. I don't think Bayless is quite as me-first as you portray him.

I hadn't thought of him in comparison to Telfair, but I could see him as a bigger, strong Telfair with a jumpshot. That actually doesn't sound like too bad of a player. Not for this particular team, but for some....

My first impressions of Bayless are somewhat similar, and that's why I wouldn't have a problem trading him for a similarly hyped talent at another position.

There will be many here who say, "Why trade him when he's so young?" Well, those are probably the same people who said we shouldn't trade Telfair or Rodriguez or Qyntel Woods or Jack midway through their first seasons either. Truth is that we would've got a pretty good value for those guys early on. It was great that we got Roy for Telfair, but we all know what a fluke that was.

I'd really like to see guys like Outlaw, Bayless, Blake, Diogu, Raef and next year's pick moved in a consolidating move for a major talent. Bayless may be the most valuable right now among that lot, thanks to a cheap contract and a great summer league. I hope that he's a key part in any trade we make this year, because it'll mean we're getting something pretty good back in return.

 

[Minstrel]

Bayless doesn't need to be a point guard. To have a long-term future as a starter on this team, he needs to be able to do the following:

* Bring the ball up the court against pressure defense

* Defend point guards

* Be productive (as some mix of scoring, rebounding and passing)

He does not have to be a great distributor or leader. Roy has the ability to direct traffic and distribute the ball. But it would too much of a demand on his energy to require him to bring the ball up the court every possession, when pressure is being applied, and defend smaller point guards. As long as Bayless can handle the defensive duties of a point guard (defending opposing point guards), he can play like a shooting guard on offense, because Roy is more of a play-maker than a dominant scorer.

So, really, basing Bayless' long-term value to the team on whether he has what it takes to be a classical point guard is beside the point, as far as I'm concerned. He has what it takes to occupy the guard spot alongside Roy, regardless of what you call it. What he has to show now is that he's a good, productive player. If he isn't, he's not going to cut it in any role.

 

[rocketeer]

Trust me, I know. I pronounced Telfair a bust at about this point in his career...

wow. impressive. i now believe anything you say about basketball to be true.