Ben Golliver, Kicking ass and taking names

[HurraKane212]

...

 

[maxiep]

I think Steve Blake would make a fine backup PG.

 

[oldmangrouch]

I think Steve Blake would make a fine backup PG.

He would be fine as our version of Steve Kerr. He's a very limited passer, but he is also unselfish and doesn't kill you with TOs. When his shot is falling, he can also spread the floor.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think Steve Blake would make a fine backup PG.

concur. Whether that's for this team or another remains to be seen, but I agree he could be a serviceable, if not great, backup.

 

[Nikolokolus]

http://blog.oregonlive.com/blazers/2009/05/you_be_the_gm_steve_blake_1.html

Steve Blake, he's not the answer at PG. Boom, roasted.

Boom goes the dynamite. You're right, Ben pulled no punches in that assessment, and I hope KP is reading.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

concur. Whether that's for this team or another remains to be seen, but I agree he could be a serviceable, if not great, backup.

I think Blake would make a great backup PG - way better than Danny Young ever was.

 

[Wheels]

I think Steve Blake would make a fine backup PG.

While I like Blake I'm not so sure.. The way our 2nd unit is built we need to run and gun.. especially if its Travis, and Rudy as our scorers in the 2nd unit. Blake cant do that. Blake is a good guy and I feel bad that he loves this place so much.. but IMO he just doesnt fit in with what this team needs.

 

[SodaPopinski]

While I like Blake I'm not so sure.. The way our 2nd unit is built we need to run and gun.. especially if its Travis, and Rudy as our scorers in the 2nd unit. Blake cant do that. Blake is a good guy and I feel bad that he loves this place so much.. but IMO he just doesnt fit in with what this team needs.

Totally disagree. Blake can run if you give him the surrounding parts. Why do you think Denver wanted him back so badly?

In his role, Blake was rarely asked to run. He almost always played on the same unit with Brandon, and the team adapted to Brandon's pace.

-Pop

 

[Nikolokolus]

Totally disagree. Blake can run if you give him the surrounding parts. Why do you think Denver wanted him back so badly?

In his role, Blake was rarely asked to run. He almost always played on the same unit with Brandon, and the team adapted to Brandon's pace.

-Pop

How many breakouts did you see Steve leading this year? I'm wracking my brain to even recall one (which doesn't prove it didn't happen, I just can't remember).

I agree that Brandon is no great fast break player, but blaming Blake's own deficiencies in this area on Brandon rings a little hollow.

 

[Tince]

I don't really disagree with Ben, but he started stretching here:

If Wade, one of the top 3 players in the world, can't get out of the first round in the Eastern Conference against a team that hasn't won a playoff series in a decade, what makes Portland so confident that Brandon Roy (a top 10 player in the league, but no Dwyane Wade) should or could carry the Blazers to the second round in the Western Conference playoffs using a similar approach next year?

Does he really think that the talent level of the Heat (without Wade) is even near the talent level of the Blazers (without Roy)? Come on. The Heat can't make it out of the first round because the rest of their team is garbage. LMA, Rudy, and probably even Outlaw would be the 2nd scoring option on that team.

328 possessions this season concluded with a Steve Blake 3 point attempt. He converted 140 of those for a sparkling 42.8%, the best 3 point percentage of his career. Some of those threes were quite memorable, most notably the game winner in Toronto.

I would give back each and every one of those possessions (including any and all game winners and makes that led to simultaneous Mike and Mike orgasms) without a second thought if it meant that Greg Oden and LaMarcus Aldridge could split those 328 shot attempts.

Ben wants a 40%+ three point shooter to pass up on open threes to get Greg the ball? The same Greg Oden who proved he could really only be effective off of offensive rebounds and sometimes off of the pick and roll. As I attempted to document throughout the end of the regular season and the post season, the teams field goal percentage when we got the ball to Greg in the post was staggering low.

A shooter knocking down outside shots is what gets low post players the space they need to operate. LMA isn't the stronger player in the post, so the space helps him, and Greg needs all the space and time he can get if we're going to be splitting up the 328 possessions where Blake shot a 3 and give anywhere near half to him.

Ben has some good points, but he lost a lot of credibility when he stretched to fill up an article and didn't really think some of these things through.

 

[Wheels]

I don't really disagree with Ben, but he started stretching here:



Does he really think that the talent level of the Heat (without Wade) is even near the talent level of the Blazers (without Roy)? Come on. The Heat can't make it out of the first round because the rest of their team is garbage. LMA, Rudy, and probably even Outlaw would be the 2nd scoring option on that team.



Ben wants a 40%+ three point shooter to pass up on open threes to get Greg the ball? The same Greg Oden who proved he could really on be effective off of offensive rebounds and sometimes off of the pick and roll. As I attempted to document throughout the end of the regular season and the post season, the teams field goal percentage when we got the ball to Greg in the post was staggering low.

A shooter knocking down outside shots is what gets low post players the space they need to operate. LMA isn't the stronger player in the post, so the space helps him, and Greg needs all the space and time he can get if we're going to be splitting up the 328 possessions where Blake shot a 3 and give anywhere near half to him.

Ben has some good points, but he lost a lot of credibility when he stretched to fill up an article and didn't really think some of these things through.

I thought that too.. he kind of lost me at the 328 posessions to be shots for those 2... we need our PG to be somewhat of an offensive threat to keep teams honest.. although I dont think Blake is that either lol.. just like you said "Stretch" thats what he did here.

 

[Wheels]

Points in the paint are more efficient than open 3's. Open 3's are nice, but rarely draw fouls. Getting to the line and getting the opposing front line into foul trouble is of much higher value over the course of the game than that extra point. Yeah 3pt shooting is important, but I'd rather have Yao or Howard (or KG, or Duncan, or whomever) sitting in the first quarter with 2 fouls then have Blake hit 2 3pters.

Yeah but Oden wasnt really doing that. When Oden is at least somewhat of a force offensively then that will happen.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I don't really disagree with Ben, but he started stretching here:



Does he really think that the talent level of the Heat (without Wade) is even near the talent level of the Blazers (without Roy)? Come on. The Heat can't make it out of the first round because the rest of their team is garbage. LMA, Rudy, and probably even Outlaw would be the 2nd scoring option on that team.



Ben wants a 40%+ three point shooter to pass up on open threes to get Greg the ball? The same Greg Oden who proved he could really on be effective off of offensive rebounds and sometimes off of the pick and roll. As I attempted to document throughout the end of the regular season and the post season, the teams field goal percentage when we got the ball to Greg in the post was staggering low.

A shooter knocking down outside shots is what gets low post players the space they need to operate. LMA isn't the stronger player in the post, so the space helps him, and Greg needs all the space and time he can get if we're going to be splitting up the 328 possessions where Blake shot a 3 and give anywhere near half to him.

Ben has some good points, but he lost a lot of credibility when he stretched to fill up an article and didn't really think some of these things through.

Shooters spread the floor, but not when there's no ball movement in and out of the paint. The only time we saw LaMarcus and Greg work the paint was in an iso on the mid post, it was almost never off of quick passes or Steve driving into the lane, collapsing the defense and dishing to an open big cutting to the hoop and there was very little inside-out game between the post and the wing aside from Brandon and LMA working a two man game.

I'm not saying Oden was any great shakes offensively, but how many times did people bemoan the fact that our guard's seemed unwilling or incapable of of making a decent post entry pass. Watch the way Billups gets Nene and Martin involved, or the way Paul get the ball to Chandler and West, they draw defenders not so much with outside shooting, but becuase they are so good at driving to the cup and/or hitting jumpers from the elbows. (albeit Chauncey is a good three point shooter at 39% and Paul is decent at 34%).

For what it's worth I'll take a big like Greg or LaMarcus hitting 60% of his shots from five feet in or less and potentially getting fouled while doing so, rather than a guard or wing taking threes and hitting at 42% as a main component of the offense.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Great article. All of it correct. I voted for him to go, but really only as a starter.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I thought that too.. he kind of lost me at the 328 posessions to be shots for those 2... we need our PG to be somewhat of an offensive threat to keep teams honest.. although I dont think Blake is that either lol.. just like you said "Stretch" thats what he did here.

This is why Andre Miller would be a better bet than Blake, he gets to the foul line consistently and/or finsishes at the rim with a pretty high draw foul rate. I'll take a 47% FG player who gets 41% of his attempts at or around the hoop and draws fouls on 14% of his attempts over a spot up shooting starting point guard. Let Rudy or Martell take those shots.

 

[Tince]

You guys are missing my point. I don't think Blake is the answer at the starting point because he isn't the best at creating or defending, and everything else listed in the article.

I don't know where anyone is pulling that Greg hits 60% of his 5ft shots. I would venture a guess it's below 40%. Greg's field goal percentage is only as high as it is because a decent percentage of his shots are dunks. Blake's 3's usually come from Roy creating or a kick-out from the post. That means a team has to decided do they want to double LMA or give Blake an open 3. If Blake is hitting 42% of his threes, then teams won't leave him to double team, which is a good thing. There is no way giving Greg an extra 150+ possessions in the post would result in more points or more wins for this team.

If Andre Miller or a PG who can drive AND finish comes in, then I expect Greg to get a lot more looks. However, remember the Miller isn't the best defender and won't be able to space out the floor near as well as Blake did. Unless we get someone like Deron Williams or Chris Paul, there is going to be some serious trade-offs no matter who we bring in.

 

[SodaPopinski]

How many breakouts did you see Steve leading this year? I'm wracking my brain to even recall one (which doesn't prove it didn't happen, I just can't remember).

I agree that Brandon is no great fast break player, but blaming Blake's own deficiencies in this area on Brandon rings a little hollow.

Quite a few, actually. He had some lobs to Aldridge on the primary break even as recently as the Houston series. He found an open Rudy on the break for some uncontested threes. Threw some lobs to Batum. Had a play where he faked a timeout and drove the lane and got a layup against Houston in Game 1 I believe.

There were plenty of occasions where Blake led a fast break. We weren't a fast breaking team with the first unit, though, so you can't lay the blame at Blake's feet for the times he didn't push the ball.

And yes, I think part of the reason for that is because Brandon is the leader and best player, and he plays at a calm pace, and I think Nate preferred to involve Brandon in the offense, which meant Blake had to slow a bit and wait for the half-court offense to set up. That's not a knock on Brandon, that's just the truth.

-Pop

 

[Nikolokolus]

You guys are missing my point. I don't think Blake is the answer at the starting point because he isn't the best at creating or defending, and everything else listed in the article.

I don't know where anyone is pulling that Greg hits 60% of his 5ft shots. I would venture a guess it's below 40%. Greg's field goal percentage is only as high as it is because a decent percentage of his shots are dunks. Blake's 3's usually come from Roy creating or a kick-out from the post. That means a team has to decided do they want to double LMA or give Blake an open 3. If Blake is hitting 42% of his threes, then teams won't leave him to double team, which is a good thing. There is no way giving Greg an extra 150+ possessions in the post would result in more points or more wins for this team.

If Andre Miller or a PG who can drive AND finish comes in, then I expect Greg to get a lot more looks. However, remember the Miller isn't the best defender and won't be able to space out the floor near as well as Blake did. Unless we get someone like Deron Williams or Chris Paul, there is going to be some serious trade-offs no matter who we bring in.

Nobody is talking about Greg's atrocious hook from 8+ feet, we're talking about looks in the immediate basket area where Greg took the vast majority of his shots http://www.82games.com/0809/08POR15.HTM there's the numbers if you don't believe me. 90% of Greg's shots were in the 'inside' category and he hit 59% of them.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

This is the best part:

2. Don't believe the assist to turnover lie

This season, Blake's assist to turnover ratio stood at 3.18, which is above-average for a point guard. Looks nice on the surface. However, we must keep in mind that it's difficult to commit turnovers while catching-and-shooting 3 pointers and making a simple extra pass around the perimeter. Blake's game is classic no-risk, no-reward. When praising Blake's high assist to turnover ratio, we must also acknowledge the deficiencies in his game that produce it: his inability to take his man off the dribble, his discomfort running pick-and-rolls, his unwillingness to throw skip passes, his limited ability feeding post players, his total incapacity for running a fast break and his outright fear in the open court.

Additionally, Blake only put up 5 assists in nearly 32 minutes per game. Blake's below average assist rate is the result of his limited skill set eliminating all but the easiest assists: he can't drive and dump, drive and kick or pick and roll. So what's left? Swing pass to Brandon or swing pass to LaMarcus. Are we really that thrilled he managed to tally 5 of those dimes a game?

 

[RoyToy]

Steve Blake plays PG but all he offers you is a shooter. Like the article said, his passing ability and vision are average at best. He has trouble just feeding the post.

I like you Blake, but on a championship contender you just don't fit in well. You don't make many plays and all you're good for is 3pt shooting. Rudy can do that off the bench for the Blazers.

 

[yakbladder]

This is why Andre Miller would be a better bet than Blake, he gets to the foul line consistently and/or finsishes at the rim with a pretty high draw foul rate. I'll take a 47% FG player who gets 41% of his attempts at or around the hoop and draws fouls on 14% of his attempts over a spot up shooting starting point guard. Let Rudy or Martell take those shots.

But since everyone wants LMA and Oden to take these shots in the paint, you're going to have trouble driving the lane...because there won't be a lane open.

That's also presuming that the defenders who are guarding LMA and Oden don't get any help from the guards. I mean, if I'm facing a team that has two post players and some guards who can't shoot 3's but can "drive to the hoop", I'm just going to sag down my guards and let them double team the post.

You'll also notice that while Greg hits "59% of them"..that's 59% of 5.8 attempts with 30% of those being dunks. I don't think you can extrapolate out that if he took 10 more attempts, 3 of those would be dunks. He gets mostly dunks because his offensive skill set is so limited.

I think that while Ben makes some good points he so obviously loathes Blake that he digs as hard as he can to take shots at him.

 

[STOMP]

He would be fine as our version of Steve Kerr. He's a very limited passer, but he is also unselfish and doesn't kill you with TOs. When his shot is falling, he can also spread the floor.

if only Batum was able to fluidly run the point like PIP then Steve would be perfectly acceptable.

STOMP

 

[Sug]

I think he should stay, just not as the starter. He is the ideal backup because he can step into the starting role if needed. We need a play maker at the PG spot, someone that can get past his man and cause some chaos. We also need someone that can get the ball into the post.

 

[Nikolokolus]

But since everyone wants LMA and Oden to take these shots in the paint, you're going to have trouble driving the lane...because there won't be a lane open.

That's also presuming that the defenders who are guarding LMA and Oden don't get any help from the guards. I mean, if I'm facing a team that has two post players and some guards who can't shoot 3's but can "drive to the hoop", I'm just going to sag down my guards and let them double team the post.

You'll also notice that while Greg hits "59% of them"..that's 59% of 5.8 attempts with 30% of those being dunks. I don't think you can extrapolate out that if he took 10 more attempts, 3 of those would be dunks. He gets mostly dunks because his offensive skill set is so limited.

I think that while Ben makes some good points he so obviously loathes Blake that he digs as hard as he can to take shots at him.

Oddly enough Brandon seems to be able to get into the lane just fine with Greg and LaMarcus on the court. It's not like they're just going to plant their butts in the post and sit there waiting for a dump off or lob from a driving point guard. Secondly, while Miller does not have a good three point percentage, he does have a very effective mid-range game and can hit from 12-15 feet at a good percentage -- you don't have to be 23 feet away from a player to space the floor as a point guard, that's what your wings are supposed to do anyway.

Want more evidence that a slashing point guard without a consistent 3 point shot (let alone a reliable jumper) can be effective? Loot at Rajon Rondo, about all he can do to score is drive the lane, yet KG, Davis, Powe, and Perkins all seem to have managed to play alongside him.

I'm really kind of shocked at how defensive people are when it comes to people pointing out Blakes weaknesses as a starter. He's a great spot up shooter and a normally steady hand with the ball, but this team is going to need more out of this position if it's going to compete at the next level.

 

[RoyToy]

Sort of off-topic, but you know Oden has to be pissed that every time Blake brings the ball down the floor, the normal play is to have Oden set a screen for Blake 20ft away from the basket. Blake then makes his move and Oden rolls and Oden never, I mean never, gets the ball. Seems like a lot of work to do and hardly get rewarded for it.

 

[Wheels]

Oddly enough Brandon seems to be able to get into the lane just fine with Greg and LaMarcus on the court. It's not like they're just going to plant their butts in the post and sit there waiting for a dump off or lob from a driving point guard. Secondly, while Miller does not have a good three point percentage, he does have a very effective mid-range game and can hit from 12-15 feet at a good percentage -- you don't have to be 23 feet away from a player to space the floor as a point guard, that's what your wings are supposed to do anyway.

I am not advocating Blake staying at all... but Blakes shooting helps open the lane for Brandon.

Want more evidence that a slashing point guard without a consistent 3 point shot (let alone a reliable jumper) can be effective? Loot at Rajon Rondo, about all he can do to score is drive the lane, yet KG, Davis, Powe, and Perkins all seem to have managed to play alongside him.

Ray Allen, Paul Pierce.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I am not advocating Blake staying at all... but Blakes shooting helps open the lane for Brandon.

Let's flip this another way: Brandon shot a pretty respectable 38% on threes this year and going into next season we'll have guys like Rudy, Martell and Travis who can all hit the three ball. If we added a point guard like Miller (or whomever) that can slash to the rim wouldn't those guys' shooting open the lane for that player as well? Hell, even LaMarcus is starting show touch out to twenty feet.

Ray Allen, Paul Pierce.

I'm not sure what you're point is? If you mean Rondo plays with wings who can shoot, how does that differ from the Blazers?

 

[Wheels]

Let's flip this another way: Brandon shot a pretty respectable 38% on threes this year and going into next season we'll have guys like Rudy, Martell and Travis who can all hit the three ball. If we added a point guard like Miller (or whomever) that can slash to the rim wouldn't those guys' shooting open the lane for that player as well? Hell, even LaMarcus is starting show touch out to twenty feet.



I'm not sure what you're point is? If you mean Rondo plays with wings who can shoot, how does that differ from the Blazers?

I'll put both answers together .. The Blazers have guys who can shoot.. while I love Rudy.. he does not yet have the Stroke of Ray Ray. Ray and Pierce make things a LOT easier than Outlaw and Rudy for Roy I guess. and I guess on the first point about Slashers Miller or someone I would rather have Roy taking it to the rack than Miller.. I just think the perfect PG for this team is someone like Bayless.. but you may have a point that Miller could be the right Tutor for Bayless.. I just worry about teams just collapsing inside with him as our PG.

 

[BlazersBlood]

That was a great article. It pointed out all the weaknesses in Blake's game that many people have been complaining about. He is not a true PG, and it would help this team tremendously if we could get one. If Andre Miller signed on, I'd be happy to keep Blake as a backup.

 

[andalusian]

Sort of off-topic, but you know Oden has to be pissed that every time Blake brings the ball down the floor, the normal play is to have Oden set a screen for Blake 20ft away from the basket. Blake then makes his move and Oden rolls and Oden never, I mean never, gets the ball. Seems like a lot of work to do and hardly get rewarded for it.

This is something that does not happen enough - but it is actually wrong to accuse Blake of never getting him the ball on the pick and roll - Blake actually gave him the ball on these occasions more than anyone else - starting with the 2 consecutive baskets at the start of the Phoenix game - and in the playoffs when he got 2 quick baskets against Yao before the refs gave him some bullshit foul and he had to get out of the game.

I just wish that Roy would do that more with Oden - but Roy's bread and butter pick and something play seems to be with LMA on a high pick and usually a pop for LMA - not a roll for anyone.