Best way to keep Oden in the game

[magnifier661]

is take the "Scoring Pressure" off of him. Nate does have this right (cough, cough) I can't believe I'm saying this. Oden's scoring should come off "garbage plays" like put-backs, cuts to the basket and the occasional pick and roll. He shouldn't have to create his own shot right now. He's just too raw offensively, and I suspect this is one of the main reasons why he turns the ball over so much.

Have him concentrate more on the "Defensive End" and protect his arse with some kind of zone, so he doesn't get into foul trouble. The sooner the team stops thinking "I" and more "We", the Blazers will have this problem with Oden always in foul trouble. Maybe Oden should just run away from the cutters. Make Nate force his perimeter defenders to actually defend.

 

[Nikolokolus]

The best way to keep him in the game is to actually have guards and wings that can cut off dribble penetration or at least make it so opposing ball handlers don't have a straight path to the hoop and into Greg's chest.

In any case Greg is already focused almost exclusively on the defensive end as evidenced by his paltry 5 or 6 shots per game, taking even more shot attempts away doesn't seem like all that much of an option frankly.

 

[Buzz Killington]

No. His fouls are all tick tack, not him being offensively out of control. He needs to get some isolations and fed the ball continously. The thing is you have to go to him otherwise he gets antsy and then makes stupid fouls.

 

[magnifier661]

No. His fouls are all tick tack, not him being offensively out of control. He needs to get some isolations and fed the ball continously. The thing is you have to go to him otherwise he gets antsy and then makes stupid fouls.

No most his fouls are from trying to recover after his team mate allowed the perimeter player to dribble past him towards the rim. They are side bumps, or block attempts off bad angles. You are watching last season's games.

 

[magnifier661]

The best way to keep him in the game is to actually have guards and wings that can cut off dribble penetration or at least make it so opposing ball handlers don't have a straight path to the hoop and into Greg's chest.

In any case Greg is already focused almost exclusively on the defensive end as evidenced by his paltry 5 or 6 shots per game, taking even more shot attempts away doesn't seem like all that much of an option frankly.

I think he would have more shot attempts personally in this system. Like Bynum had for most his first 4 years of playing. He was the beneficiary of Kobe's penetration and ability to toss nice passes to the cutting Bynum.

 

[Mediocre Man]

The Blazers need to change their defensive philosophy. I have said this for 2 years now. They need to keep their centers more stationary, rather than have them darting out to "help."

We need our defense to funnel people to the weak side, or side that our center is not on. Most of the good defensive teams do this. You can watch it when you see Brandon having a hard time getting a good shot.

Take the pick and roll out of the picture. Press full court with one gurad, and force the PG to go to a certain side

 

[magnifier661]

The Blazers need to change their defensive philosophy. I have said this for 2 years now. They need to keep their centers more stationary, rather than have them darting out to "help."

We need our defense to funnel people to the weak side, or side that our center is not on. Most of the good defensive teams do this. You can watch it when you see Brandon having a hard time getting a good shot.

Take the pick and roll out of the picture. Press full court with one gurad, and force the PG to go to a certain side

BINGO! Well said... Just because we may not have great "individual" defenders, you can accomplish great defense as a unit.

 

[Buzz Killington]

No most his fouls are from trying to recover after his team mate allowed the perimeter player to dribble past him towards the rim. They are side bumps, or block attempts off bad angles. You are watching last season's games.

No I'm not, seen every game so far this year. He is fouling away from the ball many times and its not just because someone else's man gets beat.

 

[magnifier661]

No I'm not, seen every game so far this year. He is fouling away from the ball many times and its not just because someone else's man gets beat.

I haven't missed a game this season, and have watched them 2-3 times afterwards. I've seen the majority of his fouls, and it's recovering from very bad perimeter D. Just last game his first foul was from a cutter, after Roy had to recover on Bibby's juke on Blake. The second foul was from Bibby penetrating, then kicking out to Johnson, then Johnson 'no-look" to Smith, running directly towards the basket. His third foul was when Crawford penetrated and slashed to the basket, running right into Oden out of position. The 4th foul was Johnson getting a no-look pass on the right wing, and cutting to the basket, forcing Oden to cover, and Johnson dishing to Smith. Forced Oden out of position once again, and even tried to get out of the way and got a foul called on him.

Now all 4 of those fouls. Tell me which on was ticky tac?

 

[THE HCP]

Zone D

 

[Buzz Killington]

I haven't missed a game this season, and have watched them 2-3 times afterwards. I've seen the majority of his fouls, and it's recovering from very bad perimeter D. Just last game his first foul was from a cutter, after Roy had to recover on Bibby's juke on Blake. The second foul was from Bibby penetrating, then kicking out to Johnson, then Johnson 'no-look" to Smith, running directly towards the basket. His third foul was when Crawford penetrated and slashed to the basket, running right into Oden out of position. The 4th foul was Johnson getting a no-look pass on the right wing, and cutting to the basket, forcing Oden to cover, and Johnson dishing to Smith. Forced Oden out of position once again, and even tried to get out of the way and got a foul called on him.

Now all 4 of those fouls. Tell me which on was ticky tac?

So now you're blaming others for him getting into foul trouble? While there may be bad perimeter D, he needs to own up and keep himself under control. Centers always have to help out on the weakside, its what they do. I'm at work right now and don't have the luxury of replaying the games or have the luxury of a photographic memory, so I would just have to take your word I suppose.

 

[mook]

Actually, the NBA has proven over and over again that the surest way to avoid getting called for fouls is to score lots and lots of points and focus less on defense. Zach Randolph has fouled out just 6 times in 384 games. (Of course, I'd hate for him to go completely that direction, but you get the point.)

If the objective is to really keep him in for 30+ minutes a night, make him more of a scorer, not less of one.

 

[mook]

I'm sort of half-joking here. But the real point is that Oden plays like a defensive center who has a fantastic backup center. He goes for every block, muscles for every rebound, aggressively comes out on every pick. If he gets fouls quickly, you just throw Joel in there and you don't miss a beat.

That was fine for his rookie year, but it's not a long-term plan. He's got to get much better at picking times to be aggressive, particularly when he's on defense or setting picks.

 

[Buzz Killington]

Actually, the NBA has proven over and over again that the surest way to avoid getting called for fouls is to score lots and lots of points and focus less on defense. Zach Randolph has fouled out just 6 times in 384 games. (Of course, I'd hate for him to go completely that direction, but you get the point.)

If the objective is to really keep him in for 30+ minutes a night, make him more of a scorer, not less of one.

exactly. If he's not involved offensively, he'll gamble more defensively which = fouls.

 

[magnifier661]

exactly. If he's not involved offensively, he'll gamble more defensively which = fouls.

How can you tell a "Defensive" center not to help out on the "Defensive end"? It's programed. The trick isn't to get him into those type of situations. Have the other team mates force the offensive players to give him the best possible defensive position. Like having someone in front of him, while he jumps over them for a nice block. Or take a foul to keep him in the game.

 

[magnifier661]

Zone D

Bingo! Or forcing the player to drive in the best possible defensive position.

 

[Buzz Killington]

How can you tell a "Defensive" center not to help out on the "Defensive end"? It's programed. The trick isn't to get him into those type of situations. Have the other team mates force the offensive players to give him the best possible defensive position. Like having someone in front of him, while he jumps over them for a nice block. Or take a foul to keep him in the game.

Its not a matter of that. Its a matter of him wanting to be involved in some way. If he's not getting the ball, he's going to feel like he's not contributing so he'll just charge and mow someone over.

But I agree, I've stated that our biggest need right now is a veteran defensive stopper at the wings. That would help us so much.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Zone D

A zone isn't the best way to play for long stretches though.

 

[magnifier661]

I'm sort of half-joking here. But the real point is that Oden plays like a defensive center who has a fantastic backup center. He goes for every block, muscles for every rebound, aggressively comes out on every pick. If he gets fouls quickly, you just throw Joel in there and you don't miss a beat.

That was fine for his rookie year, but it's not a long-term plan. He's got to get much better at picking times to be aggressive, particularly when he's on defense or setting picks.

You have a very good point. But when I see him on the floor, especially on the defensive end, the dude grabs every rebound. The other team is usually always "one and done" offensively, and he is an animal on the offensive boards as well. One of the best examples was watching the "Denver" game. His rebounding was "contagious" and even players like Aldridge, Webster and Roy were all rushing to grab a board.

So yes, Pryzbilla is a great "back-up" center, but what I see Oden bring is more than just individual allocates. Him, like Roy actually makes others better by aspiring them to do more defensively.

 

[magnifier661]

A zone isn't the best way to play for long stretches though.

At least mix it up a bit. As the game goes along, and the other team's legs get a little slower, you use other types of D to get it done. And you don't necessarily need to run zone 100% of the time, but when you see a team trying to run the same damn "dribble penetration play to get Oden in foul trouble", you have a counter defense to stop it. I think setting up some sort of zone D will do it. Then when they stop, you resort back to the other D you are normally accustom to.

 

[magnifier661]

Its not a matter of that. Its a matter of him wanting to be involved in some way. If he's not getting the ball, he's going to feel like he's not contributing so he'll just charge and mow someone over.

But I agree, I've stated that our biggest need right now is a veteran defensive stopper at the wings. That would help us so much.

I agree with you right there. Hey it's not like this is some sort of "magic pill" that immediately turns things around, but Nate really needs to focus on how he can keep Oden out of foul trouble. Don't make only Oden have to figure it out for himself.

 

[hasoos]

The best way to keep Oden in the game? We will just have him stand outside the no charge zone and never move, with his hands straight up. Their will be no argument if calls are charges or not, because he will have been there since the beginning of the game, but we will have to be tricky in order to avoid defensive 3 seconds calls. Besides having the downside of playing 4 on 5 on offense, he should be able to stay in the game for the whole time, only removing himself from the court at half time. .

 

[Tince]

I just watched Oden's fouls in the last 4 games. About half are due to a guard breaking down the defense. The other half are a combination of over the back, moving screens, or offensive fouls. Most of them appear to be due to a lack of footwork and should be avoidable.

 

[magnifier661]

The best way to keep Oden in the game? We will just have him stand outside the no charge zone and never move, with his hands straight up. Their will be no argument if calls are charges or not, because he will have been there since the beginning of the game, but we will have to be tricky in order to avoid defensive 3 seconds calls. Besides having the downside of playing 4 on 5 on offense, he should be able to stay in the game for the whole time, only removing himself from the court at half time. .

Don't be too sure. LOL I heard when he breaths, the PGs break their legs.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I just watched Oden's fouls in the last 4 games. About half are due to a guard breaking down the defense. The other half are a combination of over the back, moving screens, or offensive fouls. Most of them appear to be due to a lack of footwork and should be avoidable.

Definately. This should not be put entirely on the perimeter defenders. Oden makes a lot of stupid fouls.


That's one of the reasons I'd like to the team let him know he is more important to us than just as a rebounder and defender. Oden is overly active on that end causing him some silly fouls. I also think having Joel here is a reason he gets more fouls than he should. Knowing we have a player that can come in and still provided those things.

 

[Idog1976]

Actually, the NBA has proven over and over again that the surest way to avoid getting called for fouls is to score lots and lots of points and focus less on defense. Zach Randolph has fouled out just 6 times in 384 games. (Of course, I'd hate for him to go completely that direction, but you get the point.)

If the objective is to really keep him in for 30+ minutes a night, make him more of a scorer, not less of one.

I completely agree. Even if you don't buy the "League is rigged" arguments, there is really no question that scorers are favored and get the benefit of the doubt on both ends. If Oden was putting up 18 and 15 (he could easily do this with a couple more shots) then he would get less goal tends and less ticky tack fouls. The league wants him to be a force supposedly, if that's the case the best way for him to make his mark is to score a bit more. McMillan is using him wrong. For every turnover he gets, he puts a foul on an opposing big man. Over time he will get better, but only if he gets in-game practice.

 

[blazerboy30]

This one is easy:

Get Greg to learn to go straight-up for the block instead of bringing his arm down towards the ball.


Yes, better defense from the guards would be a nice and future step, but Greg not coming down and whacking guys' arms can be done with no other changes to the team.

 

[maxiep]

For the record, Greg will be sitting with 2 fouls before we hit the 8:00 mark in the first quarter. Pops isn't stupid and TD does that arm swing after he shoots.

 

[BBert]

Actually, the NBA has proven over and over again that the surest way to avoid getting called for fouls is to score lots and lots of points and focus less on defense. Zach Randolph has fouled out just 6 times in 384 games. (Of course, I'd hate for him to go completely that direction, but you get the point.)

If the objective is to really keep him in for 30+ minutes a night, make him more of a scorer, not less of one.

My thoughts as well. Stars don't foul out. Get him 5 power dunks a night and they'll let him stay in the game.

 

[magnifier661]

My thoughts as well. Stars don't foul out. Get him 5 power dunks a night and they'll let him stay in the game.

Man if it were that easy