Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Zero

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PapaG

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Yikes. PIMCO looks to be cashing out of the Treasury Ponzi scheme.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/ex...s-total-government-related-holdings-zero-flee

And many thought Bill Gross was only posturing when he said he is getting the hell out of dodge. Based on still to be publicly reported data by Pimco's flagship Total Return Fund, the world's largest bond fund, in the month of January, has taken its bond holdings to zero (and -14% on a Duration Weighted Exposure basis). The offset, not surprisingly, is cash.

After sporting $28.6 billion in "government related" securities, TRF dropped to $0.0, while its cash holdings surged from $11.9 billion to a whopping $54.5 billion (based on total TRF holdings of $236.9 billion as of February 28). This is the most cash the flagship fund has ever held, and the lowest amount in Treasury holdings since January 2009 before it was made clear that the Fed was going to adjust QE1 to include Treasurys in addition to Mortgage Backed Securities. PIMCO's Treasury holdings peaked in June 2010 at $147.4 billion and have declined consistently ever since. And while we expected that the spike in MBS holdings (at times on margin) was indicative of an expectation that QE3 would monetize mortgage backed securities, the ongoing decline in that asset class now leads us to believe that Bill Gross is now convinced there will be no QE3 at all, at least based on his just putting his money where his monthly pen is! And if Bill Gross, the most connected person to the upcoming actions by the Fed, believes there is no more quantitative easing, it is really time to get the hell out of dodge in all security classes - bonds, and most certainly, equities.
...continued at link...
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

What exactly does this mean, in layman's terms?
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

What exactly does this mean, in layman's terms?

In layman's terms, it means somebody is making a bet that the market is going to move in a certain direction.

That, and that the apocalypse is nigh.

barfo
 
We're fucked. He was in it because the fed was artifically manipulating the economy. It's all going to collapse.

X
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

In layman's terms, it means somebody is making a bet that the market is going to move in a certain direction.

That, and that the apocalypse is nigh.

barfo

Bill Gross isn't just "somebody", and it looks like he cashed in all of his treasury chips.

I happen to be opposed to a QE3, simply because all it will do is kick the can down the road a bit further, and make the mess that much more difficult to clean up.
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

I happen to be opposed to a QE3, simply because all it will do is kick the can down the road a bit further, and make the mess that much more difficult to clean up.

And just who is going to be around to "clean it up"? Corporate America? Shareholders? I think not.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelo...kout/jobs-returning-but-good-ones-not-so-much

A recent Wall Street Journal analysis found that even though productivity rose 5.2 percent from mid 2009 to the end of 2010, wages increased by just 0.3 percent. That means only 6 percent of productivity gains were shared with workers. In past recoveries, that figure has averaged 58 percent. This time around, far more of the gains went to shareholders, in the form of profits, which are at record levels.

In other words, not only is this a jobless recovery, it's also a middle-class killing recovery. Which was probably the idea all along.
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

And just who is going to be around to "clean it up"? Corporate America? Shareholders? I think not.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelo...kout/jobs-returning-but-good-ones-not-so-much



In other words, not only is this a jobless recovery, it's also a middle-class killing recovery. Which was probably the idea all along.

Actually, it's potentially an economy-killing recovery, which is what is discussed in part at zerohedge.

Playing class warfare and blaming corporate bogeymen is irrelevant to this thread.
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

Bill Gross isn't just "somebody", and it looks like he cashed in all of his treasury chips.

I happen to be opposed to a QE3, simply because all it will do is kick the can down the road a bit further, and make the mess that much more difficult to clean up.
Hurry, get out of the country while you can. There's not a moment to spare! (cue El Presidente's emoticon)
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

I know a few people that are deeply knowledgeable of the economy (one ran a multi billion dollar hedge fund) and they are adamant there is going to be a major down turn in 2011.
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

I know a few people that are deeply knowledgeable of the economy (one ran a multi billion dollar hedge fund) and they are adamant there is going to be a major down turn in 2011.

Go back in time and you'll find that every single year, there are some people who are sure the world will end that year.

barfo
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

Go back in time and you'll find that every single year, there are some people who are sure the world will end that year.

barfo

But the world IS going to end in 2012... so what's the difference? :dunno:
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

I know a few people that are deeply knowledgeable of the economy (one ran a multi billion dollar hedge fund) and they are adamant there is going to be a major down turn in 2011.

we're going to have rampant hyperinflation. all of the commodities have risen sharply ever since QE and QE2. food prices skyrocketing as are oil prices.

they should have let the faulty systems fail because its still coming, they're just digging the hole deeper.
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

stockpile precious metals now! the end is coming! oh noes! thave us, thave us! I tawt I taw a puddytat!

barfo
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

metals are overpriced. :ohno:

short the US Dollar.
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

few days ago:

http://www.businessinsider.com/bill...rap-us-living-standards-doomed-to-fail-2011-3

Debt, debt and more mounting debt is plaguing countries around the globe.
In this U.S., states across the country face a collective $125 billion shortfall for fiscal 2012, while Congress is facing a budget gap nearly 10 times that size.
PIMCO founder and co-CIO Bill Gross has previously said that if the United States were a corporation, no one in their right mind would lend us money. For the last decade, we’ve been “relying on the kindness of strangers” to help cover our debts, he tells Aaron in the accompanying clip.
By “strangers” he is referring to our foreign counterparts, like China for example. Basically, for years Americans have spent their hard-earned dollars on less-expensive Chinese made goods. With great gratitude, China turned around and used all those dollars to buy up U.S. Treasuries and other dollar-denominated assets.
But now after years of reckless spending, America’s debt level is nearing a breaking point and can no longer rely on foreign capital as a last resort. “When a country reaches a certain debt level, confidence in that country’s ability to repay that debt becomes jeopardized,” says Gross, citing the work of Ken Rogoff and Carmen Reinhart in This Time Is Different.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/bill...standards-doomed-to-fail-2011-3#ixzz1GBqI0etd
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

And just who is going to be around to "clean it up"? Corporate America? Shareholders? I think not.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelo...kout/jobs-returning-but-good-ones-not-so-much



In other words, not only is this a jobless recovery, it's also a middle-class killing recovery. Which was probably the idea all along.

Who do you think shareholders are? For the most part, I think they're pension funds.

Anyhow, the obvious reason to get out of govt. bonds is if you think the interest rates are going up. If you're stuck in low yield bonds, you sacrifice a good chunk of your principal for liquidity. For example:

You buy a $100 bond paying 10% interest. You actually pay $90 and when the bond matures you get $100, making $10. Meanwhile, new bonds start paying 20% interest. People are paying $80 to get $100 at maturity. If you want to sell your bond you paid $90 for, you have to sell it for $80 or nobody will buy it. You just lost $10. The numbers are for illustrative purposes.

Why will bonds have to pay higher interest? The govt. can't keep enticing people to buy at low rates, the buyers eventually (sooner than later) have the govt. over a barrel - pay us more interest or we won't buy, and the govt. is addicted to borrowed money. I mean, why buy govt. bonds paying 1% interest when you can make 2% in capital gains buying stock in Johnson and Johnson?

This was the picture in early 2009, just after Obama took office. Since then, the reality has been $1.6T deficits in '10, '11, and looking like '12. To put it in perspective, the govt. borrowed more in the month of February than it did the entire year in '07.

wapoobamabudget1.jpg
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

Go back in time and you'll find that every single year, there are some people who are sure the world will end that year.

barfo

How many of these people manage the world's largest bond fund?

Pimco, a unit of the Munich-based insurer Allianz SE, managed $1.24 trillion of assets as of December.
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

Go back in time and you'll find that every single year, there are some people who are sure the world will end that year.

barfo

That's very true. There's always those who also say the opposite.
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

When we raised money for our new fund last year, one of our arguments that investors told us they found most compelling was the argument that even if commercial real estate stayed underpriced (compared to historic norms), it was a hedge against inflation.
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

That's very true. There's always those who also say the opposite.

Those who say the opposite have a much better track record.

barfo
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

Go back in time and you'll find that every single year, there are some people who are sure the world will end that year.

barfo

The largest bond holder in the world is the same thing as a crazy guy on the street.

Way to add value.
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

Ain't it, though!

$140B is chump change to the government. I bet Barfo would support a $140B goat sacrificing program if Democrats proposed it.
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

Ain't it, though!

What I mean is this- Although I can only afford to invest small amounts of money, about 5 or 6 times I've made a 200-400% return within two years on stocks the "experts" scream to avoid for idiotic reasons (like, the Uruguayan plum harvest is bad so sim chips for cell phones will drop off...) and I've had terrible returns on stocks nearly 100% of the experts scream to buy. So forecasting the economy is basically, to me, a throw the dart at the board game. Where ever the dart sticks, that's the expert forecast.
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

$140B is chump change to the government. I bet Barfo would support a $140B goat sacrificing program if Democrats proposed it.

PIMCO isn't the government. ;)
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

$140B is chump change to the government. I bet Barfo would support a $140B goat sacrificing program if Democrats proposed it.

I'm into goat roping, goat raping, and goat sacrifice no matter who proposes it. We need at least $200B, though. You can't stint on goat programs. Goats don't grow on trees, y'know.

barfo
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

I'm into goat roping, goat raping, and goat sacrifice no matter who proposes it.barfo

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, an OSU alumni, I see.
 
Re: Bill Gross Dumps All Treasuries, Brings Total "Government Related" Holdings To Ze

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, an OSU alumni, I see.

Hey, I said goats, not sheep. I'm not some sort of pervert!

barfo
 

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