Billups is overrated (by Marc Stein)

[Minstrel]

I think that Billups is definitely overrated by many.

Nene averaged 15 ppg, 8.75 rpg and 2 blocks per game in the four games before Billups arrived... I think it's hard to argue that he's playing well because of Chauncey.

Billups is a good player, but Denver was a good team before he got there and they're still just a good team after he's there.

I agree with what you said, essentially. I'll go a step further and say Denver is a better team now then they were. Not because Billups is a great leader who is making everyone else better--because he's simply a better player than Allen Iverson, and Denver swapped out a redundant player (Iverson replicated benefits JR Smith could provide and that Carmelo Anthony does provide, namely scoring) and received something they did not have, a proper point guard.

Better player + need filled without opening a new hole = significantly better team

No leadership or "making Nene better" necessary to explain Denver being better.

 

[KingSpeed]

The fact of the matter is Roy hasn't proven anything yet. Just because a player has leadership qualities during the regular season, doesn't mean it translates to leadership when it counts -- in the playoffs. And that's what Billups brings to the table. Yes, Nene was putting up great numbers prior to his arrival, but great leaders (the types of players that make teams better) positively benefits his teammates because of intangibles which aren't on stat sheets. When Jason Kidd took over Jersey in '01, did any of his supporting cast have drastically improved stats? No. .

Actually, what happened is that all actually got healthy and PLAYED. Kenyon Martin got healthy. Kittles got healthy. Van Horn got healthy. AND they added Collins and Jefferson from the draft that year. Kidd walked into a Nets team that was about to improve anyway and then everyone said it was because of him. Yes, Kidd played great, but that team's large improvement wasn't solely because of him. And that is why Duncan won MVP and not Kidd.

 

[adisodes]

Actually, what happened is that all actually got healthy and PLAYED. Kenyon Martin got healthy. Kittles got healthy. Van Horn got healthy. AND they added Collins and Jefferson from the draft that year. Kidd walked into a Nets team that was about to improve anyway and then everyone said it was because of him. Yes, Kidd played great, but that team's large improvement wasn't solely because of him. And that is why Duncan won MVP and not Kidd.

Martin played 5 additional games the year Kidd came. His numbers showed no drastic change. In fact, his rebounding went down by 2. KVH missed about 30 and Kittles missed 20. You really think those two pieces would have had them win anything more than 5 games? Neither of them could create their own shots, so they relied on players to get them the ball in their opportune positions. Kidd did that, Marbury did not. It was ridiculos that Duncan got the MVP over Kidd when made the team an elite Eastern conference force when everybody laughed when Kidd said he thought Nets could have a .500 record and/or be better than the Knicks.

 

[Minstrel]

Actually, what happened is that all actually got healthy and PLAYED. Kenyon Martin got healthy. Kittles got healthy. Van Horn got healthy. AND they added Collins and Jefferson from the draft that year. Kidd walked into a Nets team that was about to improve anyway and then everyone said it was because of him. Yes, Kidd played great, but that team's large improvement wasn't solely because of him.

This is exactly right. Kidd was a better player than Marbury, but not by all that much. The huge difference came from health, the development of Martin and the addition of Jefferson.

 

[MARIS61]

Apples and oranges.

I'd give Chauncy the edge on defense and getting his teammates involved, Brandon the edge on being an unstoppable scorer.

 

[MIXUM]

kingspeed....maybe u should do trash talk 8 about this. Haven't seen one in a while.

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't think Billups is overrated. All I know is that the Nuggets weren't a very good team before he got there, after he got there they started winning. Coincidence? Maybe. I don't think so though.

Billups on Pistons - Pistons winning.
Iverson on Nuggets - Nuggets losing.

Billups on Nuggets - Nuggets winning.
Iverson on Pistons - Pistons losing.

Seems like a pattern.

 

[Jurassic]

^^Bish you have a point, but at the same time look at Billups before the Pistons and Iverson before the Nuggets. It's pretty obvious who was a better player and more of a winner. A lot of people didn't even know who Billups was when he was playing in Denver (the first time), Minny, etc.

 

[Ed O]

I don't think Billups is overrated. All I know is that the Nuggets weren't a very good team before he got there, after he got there they started winning. Coincidence? Maybe. I don't think so though.

Billups on Pistons - Pistons winning.
Iverson on Nuggets - Nuggets losing.

Billups on Nuggets - Nuggets winning.
Iverson on Pistons - Pistons losing.

Seems like a pattern.

Are you talking about this year? Iverson was on the team for three games. The team went 1-2, with losses at Utah (by 4 points) and against the Lakers (by 7 points).

Do you really think that's a meaningful part of a pattern?

Ed O.

 

[B-Roy]

Are you talking about this year? Iverson was on the team for three games. The team went 1-2, with losses at Utah (by 4 points) and against the Lakers (by 7 points).

Do you really think that's a meaningful part of a pattern?

Ed O.

And at the same time, the win was against the Clippers.

It's just too small of a sample size.

 

[Tince]

Looks like Billups got the better end of Roy this time. Granted Roy was double teamed almost the entire game, but Roy didn't convert on some easy ones and Billups' team won. I hope we can pay them back tomorrow night!

 

[adisodes]

Hmmmm....the Chauncey Billups-led Denver Nuggets, without Carmelo Anthony, beat the Brandon Roy-led, healthy, Portland Trail Blazers.

Hmmmmmmm....interesting.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

To all those who think Camby is a good defender

Going off on a tangent, but the play of Nene is significant, and it's a big reason why the Nuggets are 18-10 and seventh in the league in defense.

You see, Marcus Camby was revealed as a pretty insignificant defender last season, a guy who failed to get out on screen and rolls, didn't move his feet well, while allowing himself to be abused in the post. Marcus still got his double-figure rebounds and blocks from the weak side, but he was hurting as much as he was helping.

Nene just helps. Moves his feet. Doesn't block many shots, but gets Hakeem-level steals. Shows on screen and rolls. Rebounds, runs, does it right. And he's essentially been a free agent of sorts for the Nuggets, a huge pickup, and the biggest reason for Denver's defensive turnaround.

19 and 11 for Nene on Monday, the Nuggets held the NBA's second-best offense (114 points per 100 possessions) to just 100 points on 100 possessions, while dominating Portland on the boards (43-32).

Six blocks and 11 points in 21 minutes from Chris Andersen didn't hurt, either.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ba...n-t-mind-the?urn=nba,130978#remaining-content

Couldn't have said it better myself