Can Bayless be a PG?

[Rastapopoulos]

What do you think?

 

[Wheels]

IMO a pure distributing PG? No... but with a SG like Roy who dominates the ball so much and distributes a lot too.. I think that a player like Bayless can be someone who is even more important than a "Pure PG" One thing noticed by many in this recent series is we cant just have 2 scorers in the starting lineup. And I'm not saying that Bayless should have just been thrown in this year.. he wasnt ready. But down the road he will be perfect with Roy IMO.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

OT: BrianWheeler - been loving your .sigs. Is the long-rumored Arrested Development movie ever coming, do you think, or is it just a myth?

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think he's a twenty year old rookie with a year of college ball and 600 minutes of floor time. I voted Chauncey Billups as his ceiling, mostly because of Mr. Big shot's ability to get into the lane and draw fouls. Jerryd will never be a 'pure' passing point, but I think with practice and time he's got potential to be a very good guard (combo, scoring point or otherwise).

 

[Wheels]

OT: BrianWheeler - been loving your .sigs. Is the long-rumored Arrested Development movie ever coming, do you think, or is it just a myth?

Haha awesome, glad to hear there are other fans of Arrested Development! And get this.. from what I've read.. The lone Holdout, Michael Cera (George Michael) is on board finally! I'll find the article and post it for ya in a second.. stupid clients at work lol.

Found the Article.

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b101449_sources_michael_cera_joins_arrested.html

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Re: AD movie - Great news, thanks!

Re: Bayless. I'm REALLY hoping that somebody will pull a Danny-Ainge-with-Telfair and give us a top 6 pick for Bayless. AND THEN: because my dream came true and teams like Toronto and the Clippers lucked into the top 3 picks, we trade them the #5 pick (so they can get Thabeet or Harden) and our cap space for an unloaded salary and the #2 pick and get RUBIO!

In Pritchard I trust.

 

[RoyToy]

I thought Bayless was a great fit next to Roy and I still do.

We all know the scoring will be there in his career, but I think he has the ability to make plays based on the fact he can get into the lane almost at will. Once he becomes a threat to score at the basket consistently teams will have to rotate to him and he'll be able to hit open players for wide open shots.

He'll never be a Paul/Deron type PG. Think more Arenas/Davis.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: AD movie - Great news, thanks!

Re: Bayless. I'm REALLY hoping that somebody will pull a Danny-Ainge-with-Telfair and give us a top 6 pick for Bayless. AND THEN: because my dream came true and teams like Toronto and the Clippers lucked into the top 3 picks, we trade them the #5 pick (so they can get Thabeet or Harden) and our cap space for an unloaded salary and the #2 pick and get RUBIO!

In Pritchard I trust.

Your comparison of Bayless to Telfair (in terms of trading him away) seems to suggest that you consider Bayless a likely washout that should be dumped on an unsuspecting GM. Then you finish with "In Pritchard I trust." The problem with that is that Bayless was very much a Pritchard pick. Not just a pick, but someone Pritchard specifically traded up for. So your trusting Pritchard and also seeming to have no faith in Bayless as a prospect seems a bit contradictory.

 

[Wheels]

Your comparison of Bayless to Telfair (in terms of trading him away) seems to suggest that you consider Bayless a likely washout that should be dumped on an unsuspecting GM. Then you finish with "In Pritchard I trust." The problem with that is that Bayless was very much a Pritchard pick. Not just a pick, but someone Pritchard specifically traded up for. So your trusting Pritchard and also seeming to have no faith in Bayless as a prospect seems a bit contradictory.

somewhat I could see that.. I'll chime in... but me for example I LOVE what Bayless brings to this team and think he will be a very good starter... but if Rubio was available.. I would do it. So in Pritchard I trust.. to make the right decision for the future of this team.

 

[Minstrel]

somewhat I could see that.. I'll chime in... but me for example I LOVE what Bayless brings to this team and think he will be a very good starter... but if Rubio was available.. I would do it. So in Pritchard I trust.. to make the right decision for the future of this team.

I would also trade Bayless to get Rubio, but I don't think Bayless will bring back a #2 pick himself. What else would you include? Rudy and/or Batum?

Anyway, my point is more that Pritchard clearly has faith that Bayless can be a point guard for this team, as he specifically wanted to acquire him. Pritchard could be wrong, but I don't understand "trusting" Pritchard's judgment and writing off Bayless already.

 

[blue32]

A PG that can drive and keep the defense honest, when he's in the game, therefore reducing the defensive help on B-Roy.

B-REX and B-Roy, our tandem....that we need.

 

[Wheels]

A PG that can drive and keep the defense honest, when he's in the game, therefore reducing the defensive help on B-Roy.

B-REX and B-Roy, our tandem....that we need.

agreed.. but where did B-Rex come from lol I have heard that before.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Your comparison of Bayless to Telfair (in terms of trading him away) seems to suggest that you consider Bayless a likely washout that should be dumped on an unsuspecting GM. Then you finish with "In Pritchard I trust." The problem with that is that Bayless was very much a Pritchard pick. Not just a pick, but someone Pritchard specifically traded up for. So your trusting Pritchard and also seeming to have no faith in Bayless as a prospect seems a bit contradictory.

Oh Minstrel. I am large, I contain contradictions, but this is not one of them, for the following reasons.

1. I do not believe that Bayless was the target. I believe that DJ Augustin was the target. (And my believing this shows my faith in Pritchard, because DJ Augustin would've been the penetrating PG we needed against the Rockets.) When the Bobcats surprisingly stole Augustin early (Larry Brown's influence on Michael Jordan), Bayless was a fallback because he had the best value at that pick.
2. Bayless was a smart take at that point, as evidenced by his stellar summer league performance. But he was never a keeper (as revealed by Pritchard's description "Jarrett Jack on steroids"), he was and is a chip to be moved.

So you see, I have great faith in Pritchard and there is no contradiction in my statements.

 

[blue32]

Oh Minstrel. I am large, I contain contradictions, but this is not one of them, for the following reasons.

1. I do not believe that Bayless was the target. I believe that DJ Augustin was the target. (And my believing this shows my faith in Pritchard, because DJ Augustin would've been the penetrating PG we needed against the Rockets.) When the Bobcats surprisingly stole Augustin early (Larry Brown's influence on Michael Jordan), Bayless was a fallback because he had the best value at that pick.
2. Bayless was a smart take at that point, as evidenced by his stellar summer league performance. But he was never a keeper (as revealed by Pritchard's description "Jarrett Jack on steroids"), he was and is a chip to be moved.

So you see, I have great faith in Pritchard and there is no contradiction in my statements.

That's a whole lot of assumptions...

 

[Wheels]

That's a whole lot of assumptions...

not to mention.. I would take Bayless over Augustine IMO.. not a knock on DJ I like him.. but Bayless will be killer next to #7

 

[Rastapopoulos]

That's a whole lot of assumptions...

Any beliefs about Pritchard's target in trading up have to be assumptions. You think he's ever going to say he was hoping for someone else?

Besides, all I have to do is show that my position is consistent with trusting Pritchard. I have done that.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

not to mention.. I would take Bayless over Augustine IMO.. not a knock on DJ I like him.. but Bayless will be killer next to #7

He certainly wasn't this year.

 

[Wheels]

He certainly wasn't this year.

well yeah this year would not be one to go by though with Jerryd IMO. But I agree that DJ was better this year.

 

[Natebishop3]

I am astonished at how much people have pigeon holed Bayless with only having seen such a small sample of his game. It's so much worse than anything anyone has said about Sergio (three years in the league), and Outlaw (six years in the league). This guy has yet to be given a real shot to show what he can do, and yet people are willing to give up on someone who was far and away the best player in the summer league last year.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I am astonished at how much people have pigeon holed Bayless with only having seen such a small sample of his game. It's so much worse than anything anyone has said about Sergio (three years in the league), and Outlaw (six years in the league). This guy has yet to be given a real shot to show what he can do, and yet people are willing to give up on someone who was far and away the best player in the summer league last year.

Agreed. 650 minutes of PT is an infinitesimally small sample size to be deciding what anybody is. But if you were to use half of the opinions generated here as the foundation for a player evaluation you'd suspect he'd been playing and sucking balls for 2 or 3 years. In the same vein I've tried to resist the temptation to look at his mostly good, 12 or so game run in the middle of the season when Blake went down and use that as a basis of expectations.

I suspect the Blazers Brass' is taking a somewhat longer range view.

 

[MrJayremmie]

Bayless can def. be a PG as the position is evolving to the Harris/Parker type PG. There are better options out there that i'd take over Bayless but i'm happy he is on our team and wouldn't be disappointed at all if he was the heir to the PG position (meaning we didn't get a PG like Sessions in the offseason). Hes really gotta work on not having tunnel vision when he drives and creating more rather than always just putting up wild shots. He has had some good moments when he has done that and it shows flashes of his potential.

Go Jerryd! Go Blazers!

 

[MARIS61]

It's hard to think of any significant player who's ever been less likely to be a PG than Bayless.

A SG who is hardwired to look to score at all times will likely end up doing so elsewhere and fairly successfully.

I don't see him ever reaching the popularity or stature of any of the players mentioned in the OP though, that's a stretch.

 

[alex42083]

I actually like the young Stevie Franchise 'combo' guard comparison. Jerryd has shown that explosiveness to the hoop, and all-around athletic ability to dunk and be on the receiving end of alley-oops unlike a guy like a Chauncey Billups.
I just hope Jerryd can develop some kind of jump shot. I can't believe how bad he was outside of 15 feet. It's like a race between Sergio and him, and if any of those two could make a consistent jumper, they'd be getting the minutes.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: some things you can just tell, and it's clear that Bayless just doesn't have PG instincts.
You can learn to shoot (certainly the 3 pointer) and many players have.
You can get better a defense just by caring (see LeBron James).
But in all my years watching the NBA I can only think of Chauncey Billups who seemed to "learn" to be a PG.
Being a PG just doesn't come naturally to Bayless. The only way you can get him to do it is to completely shackle what he is good at. Haven't you ever been in pickup games with people like Bayless? He's great, but eventually you just get tired of running up and down with him and never seeing the ball.

This is Bayless at his best, and it's not being a PG:

[video=youtube;jYqsB5VuSFY]

In fact: here is a challenge to someone like HCP: compile a highlight reel of every Bayless assist.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Your comparison of Bayless to Telfair (in terms of trading him away) seems to suggest that you consider Bayless a likely washout that should be dumped on an unsuspecting GM. Then you finish with "In Pritchard I trust." The problem with that is that Bayless was very much a Pritchard pick. Not just a pick, but someone Pritchard specifically traded up for. So your trusting Pritchard and also seeming to have no faith in Bayless as a prospect seems a bit contradictory.

Pritchard did NOT trade up for Bayless. He traded up for Augustine. But Augustine got picked ahead of us and we took Bayless as he was dropping down the board.

 

[Minstrel]

Pritchard did NOT trade up for Bayless. He traded up for Augustine. But Augustine got picked ahead of us and we took Bayless as he was dropping down the board.

That's one theory, certainly.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Personally I think Pritchard was REALLY hoping for Aquinas.

 

[blue32]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: some things you can just tell, and it's clear that Bayless just doesn't have PG instincts.
You can learn to shoot (certainly the 3 pointer) and many players have.
You can get better a defense just by caring (see LeBron James).
But in all my years watching the NBA I can only think of Chauncey Billups who seemed to "learn" to be a PG.
Being a PG just doesn't come naturally to Bayless. The only way you can get him to do it is to completely shackle what he is good at. Haven't you ever been in pickup games with people like Bayless? He's great, but eventually you just get tired of running up and down with him and never seeing the ball.

This is Bayless at his best, and it's not being a PG:

Nets Game

In fact: here is a challenge to someone like HCP: compile a highlight reel of every Bayless assist.

So wait, what, you'll pull some limited playing time business, in his first year no less, to pigeon hole the dude's career? Yet we have a starter PG (5 years into the league) that barely averages 5 assists per game running our show?

I don't think the Bayless comparisons are legit yet. We definitely should see him w/o Sergio on the team, pulling back-up PG duty until he can take over Blake's spot.

Not saying Blake is bad, not saying Sergio is bad, but saying, the diagnosis on Bayless is bad because of the limited sampling.

I think he'll turn into a great PG, he just needs time, time to play, time to know that he's not going to get pulled for doing a Rookie thing, etc.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

So wait, what, you'll pull some limited playing time business, in his first year no less, to pigeon hole the dude's career? Yet we have a starter PG (5 years into the league) that barely averages 5 assists per game running our show?

What does Blake have to do with my assessment of Bayless? I've wanted Blake gone for a while. In fact, I was even screaming for him to get a minor-non-career-threatening-condition to keep him out of the Houston series, which would have meant minutes for... Bayless!

I don't think the Bayless comparisons are legit yet. We definitely should see him w/o Sergio on the team, pulling back-up PG duty until he can take over Blake's spot.

I disagree. He's so far from showing any PG abilities that I think you can make safe assumptions. It's why he fell to 11 in the draft.

Not saying Blake is bad,

Why not? I am!

not saying Sergio is bad, but saying, the diagnosis on Bayless is bad because of the limited sampling.

What about his high school and college career? Show me evidence he can run a team rather than simply be the dominant scorer with a supporting cast. I'd be happy if he stayed and changed into Billups or Parker, but I'd be pretty damn amazed. I gave up on Telfair after his rookie season - I wanted us to draft Paul or Williams but I guess John Nash agreed with you.

I think he'll turn into a great PG,

So... you're criticizing me for inferring from a data set that clearly shows he's been a short 2G that that is what he'll stay, and then you turn around and infer from the same data set that he'll suddenly become something quite different?

he just needs time, time to play, time to know that he's not going to get pulled for doing a Rookie thing, etc.

He had that in Summer League. And he showed that he was a short 2G, and a good distance behind Petteri "playing behind Earl Boykins and may never sniff the NBA" Koponen in PG skills.

 

[blue32]

oh jesus....here we go.

the difference between your post and mine, is that you're stating things in a way that come across as the final word regarding the future of Bayless....

luckily neither of us are GM's