Can we please get something straight with this "contender" stuff...

[MIXUM]

After reading numerous trade threads on here.... it seems to me that many posters feel only "contenders" make trades.

First of all... we weren't ever beating the lakers for a title this year. We were never really expected to win it all. The goal was to go deeper in the playoffs and gain more experience. Playoff experience. Because thats what this team needs. PLAYOFF EXPERIENCE. Thats how you become contenders... which we aren't yet even if healthy.

So that leads me to my point about why we need a trade so badly and why people are being stupid who think just contenders make trades to improve. Like ive said for a week...Kp has to decide how far he can push this team as is. What's the point of no return? 5 games under 500...or is it around 500 on Jan 1st? He has to make the call on wether theres time to fix it or play his favorite game. the lotto. Now with that said.... i dont care what excuses you guys wanna make... if we miss the playoffs.... IT IS A MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR STEP BACKWARDS. NO WAY AROUND IT. IF YOU ARE THE BLAZERS GM.... YOU HAVE TO DO WHATEVER YOU CAN TO MAKE THIS POST SEASON. But posters who are saying we should stay put cause we arent contenders are a joke. You always improve even if you wanna compete next year. Always look to get better. Developing guys like cunningham/bayless/etc are long shots. Trade them while you can get quality. We have 3-4 major pieces already.

My point is... a good GM can get a starter at SF for 2 expiring contracts in Blake and Outlaw.
Getting a starter at SF or even a great backup PF/C makes it worth it alone not just this year but for next as well. I mean think about it instead of yelling "mixums negative" "mixums a laker fan" ahhh garg arh... you guys just dont wanna hear facts. The truth is.... ya ready....

1. Pryz is likely gone. Oden is injury prone. We need a big man for a backup center/pf.

2. Outlaw... expiring contract... wont be resigned unless its a major discount. Get something while you can.

3. Blake ... does anyone want him back here? I mean i think we all agree on that. Again... get something while you can. His trade value will never be higher cause of his contract.

Its a win win for us. Dont you get it? We improve our chances at playoffs and settle the roster a bit for next year. AND THEY PLAY TOGETHER. How is this a bad situation? WAKE UP!

 

[Nikolokolus]

Imagine for a second you are the GM of another team. KP calls you up and offers you the expiring contract of Travis Outlaw and Steve Blake for <fill-in-the-blank-starting-small-forward> Unless you are desperate to shed salary (and I do mean desperate) would this really pique your interest as the best deal you can do? If a trade of this sort is going to happen it's far more likely to occur at the trading deadline, not the second week of December.

So who knows what will happen, but berrating people because they don't see this being quite the panacea that you do isn't accomplishing much. Secondly, I don't see a lot of "stand pat" or "no trades" kinds of comments, I just think people are little dubious about buying into the theory that this particular trade package is all that enticing, particularly because most GMs know that KP is in over a barrel here with over a third of the roster on the shelf.

 

[MIXUM]

you might have to throw in bayless.... but to a team who needs salary relief.... they will ask where to sign.

i mean if you get butler for those 3 above.... you dont jump at it?

 

[RR7]

Great point. A deal with strictly expirings is unlikely to happen until much closer to the deadline. Unless it was someone a team had little interest in, on a long deal. Like a Maggette, Dalembert, Brand, Hinrich maybe, Posey, Nocioni, Udrih. Otherwise, if, say, Washington is going to deal Butler, wouldn't it make more sense to wait until February? As the season goes on, some teams will become more desperate for that talent upgrade, and it's easier to ensure for Washington that they are in fact out of contention.

 

[Nikolokolus]

you might have to throw in bayless.... but to a team who needs salary relief.... they will ask where to sign.

i mean if you get butler for those 3 above.... you dont jump at it?

I don't know, maybe. but we'd be left with exactly one player at point guard in Miller, with Mills who knows how far away from coming back. Butler has been having a very down year, so there's no guarantee he's what this team is missing and would suddenly push us back into playoff contention (I do suspect a change of scenery might revitalize him).

I still sort of doubt that would be the offer they'd jump at. It seems more likely they'd be wanting at least one wing to replace him and right now all we've got at that position are either banged up and unavailable or are garbage.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Yes, non-contenders make trades. It is the *type* of trade that is at issue.

 

[MIXUM]

well what are we then? thats the point.

1. Are we rebuilding/adding more young talent in the lotto?

2. Are we TRYING to make the playoffs and not regressing?

3. Are we trying to add pieces for next years team?

4. Are we still thinking about titles or blowing it up other then roy and la?

thats why we are struggling as an organization and as fans..... our gm has no answer.... so nobody knows where we are going.

 

[Ed O]

Yes, non-contenders make trades. It is the *type* of trade that is at issue.

Indeed.

Contenders have more justification in sacrificing some of their future in order to improve their chances to win today.

The Blazers are not contenders and, IMO, weren't headed into the season. They needed another year or two of experience to get close to their peak as a team, and I have been in favor of accumulating superior young players to augment our future core.

This season is down the tubes. Whether we make it to the second round or not into the playoffs is no matter, in my opinion. The team is too banged up to succeed at the level that would be worth sacrificing some of tomorrow in order to improve today.

I'm all for getting value for Blake (since I'd rather see his minutes go to Miler and Bayless) and maybe even Joel (although I'd prefer to retain him as a backup after this year), but generally unless we can do a consolidation trade for a young player that will help us down the line at least as much as he would now? I'm not interested in making a move.

Ed O.

 

[MIXUM]

so ed... looking at my previous post above yours...

which one are we?

 

[RR7]

so ed... looking at my previous post above yours...

which one are we?

I'd say we're at 3, but parts of two as well. Basically, make a move if it helps now AND the future, don't make a short term move.

 

[Ed O]

I'd say we're at 3, but parts of two as well. Basically, make a move if it helps now AND the future, don't make a short term move.

Yeah, I'd agree.

I'd be willing to take a step backwards now for a potentially big step forward down the line, too (example: trading Outlaw/Blake for a mid-to-low lottery pick).

Ed O.

 

[MIXUM]

trading outlaw/blake


getting anything would be a step forward lol


i mean... blake is awful and outlaw is out till late march at best

 

[RR7]

Yeah, I'd agree.

I'd be willing to take a step backwards now for a potentially big step forward down the line, too (example: trading Outlaw/Blake for a mid-to-low lottery pick).

Ed O.

Agreed. 1 step backwarsdf, two steps forward? Like you mentioned, I think we need to look at who is going to be here next season and beyond, and look at solidfying our rotation for next season. If that means moving Blake as an expiring, well, we have two other PGs currently on the roster. If it means moving Joel, hopefully we get a passable C back as well in the deal, but it's something that should at least be explored.

 

[MIXUM]

we dont even know if odens gonna be back to even half speed.

keeping joel is priority 1. can you imagine the slap in the face if joel goes to okc?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

we dont even know if odens gonna be back to even half speed.

We don't know, but the history of athletes with patella fractures gives us a good indication that he should be fine when he returns. Just like with anything else, the best we can do is play the percentages. Odds are that Oden will be back and fully healthy at the beginning of next year. We go with that.

 

[RR7]

we dont even know if odens gonna be back to even half speed.

keeping joel is priority 1. can you imagine the slap in the face if joel goes to okc?

Chandler(if he opts out), Shaq, Ilgauskus, Brad Miller, Dampier, Ben Wallace, Kwame, Camby, Jermaine O'Neal, Magloire, Blount, Battie, Etan Thomas, Darko, Rasho, and Haywood are all free agents this offseason. Add in having Freeland and Pendergraph as possibilities, and a group of PFs who can play the C position, like David Lee, and I'm not too concerned about the backup C position next season.

 

[MIXUM]

all those guys are 90 and declining faster then our playoff hopes

 

[RR7]

They're backup/insurance Cs. They don't need to be with us through our entire playoff journey. We'd likely need them for a year or two until we felt comfortable with the possibility of Freeland or Pendergraph taking over that role.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Barrett just said on 95.5 that he would be shocked if KP made a trade, and that he's heard absolutely nothing that justifies any of the recent rumors.

 

[Nikolokolus]

we dont even know if odens gonna be back to even half speed.

keeping joel is priority 1. can you imagine the slap in the face if joel goes to okc?

I think it's more likely than not that Joel remains with the team, I also think it more likely than not that Oden will be able to return to full speed well in time for training camp (no ligament damage is huge) ... how long will he be available and how much can we count on him going forward? Tough to say.

Assuming Joel bolts and Oden can't come back then yes the team is going to need to address the center position and I suspect KP will probably do all he can to bring Freeland over (who's playing well in the ACB) and will look to the draft to acquire a big (somebody like Monroe, Udoh, Alabi, or Aldrich).

Let's just say it's a fluid position right now and we need to probably see how this season shakes out before any major moves are made. In the interim, if a decent player can be got for one of Blake and/or Outlaw then I'd be fine with that, I just don't expect such a move to do anything but shore up the middle or bottom of the rotation; it probably wouldn't be the kind of move to push us over the top.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Barrett just said on 95.5 that he would be shocked if KP made a trade, and that he's heard absolutely nothing that justifies any of the recent rumors.

That's probably OK. I'm not anti-trade (especially if it's just a matter of shedding an injured or dead-wood player) but this team probably needs more roster stability than it does more moves. I think they're going to give Miller and Roy a legitimate run in the backcourt before they decide on any trades and that will probably extend closer to the deadline.

 

[MIXUM]

oh good mike... that means when we lose 7 in a row... you can praise how well the blazers are dribbling the ball. its anbsolute disgrace how big of a pussy kp is. wonder where mb gets it from?

 

[Nikolokolus]

oh good mike... that means when we lose 7 in a row... you can praise how well the blazers are dribbling the ball. its anbsolute disgrace how big of a pussy kp is. wonder where mb gets it from?

 

[Blazer_Hippie]

oh good mike... that means when we lose 7 in a row... you can praise how well the blazers are dribbling the ball. its anbsolute disgrace how big of a pussy kp is. wonder where mb gets it from?

 

[hasoos]

The Blazers are always contenders. Not that what they are contending for is always an NBA championship, but they are contending for something!

 

[MIXUM]

maybe barrett could just be honest (instead of being a kiss ass) and say KP isnt the type of gM who makes in season deals unless its lotto related."

I mean its become a joke with pritchard how bad he is when it comes to taking the big step. i mean if your the twolves or nets... hes your guy.... if you have a great core in place.... your fucked.

 

[hasoos]

maybe barrett could just be honest (instead of being a kiss ass) and say KP isnt the type of gM who makes in season deals unless its lotto related."

I mean its become a joke with pritchard how bad he is when it comes to taking the big step. i mean if your the twolves or nets... hes your guy.... if you have a great core in place.... your fucked.

How well do you think bad mouthing your boss goes over? It might appease you, but it wouldn't do much for his career.

 

[MIXUM]

unless he plans on getting a job in the front office... hes peaked with the blazers anyway.

Maybe its time for someone to tell it how it is?

 

[hasoos]

unless he plans on getting a job in the front office... hes peaked with the blazers anyway.

Maybe its time for someone to tell it how it is?

I agree he could be less homer. Like a lot of announcers elsewhere. But I don't think it is ever smart to cross the line with the person who is your boss, unless you plan on having a resume generating event as we call it in the IT industry.

 

[Nikolokolus]

maybe barrett could just be honest (instead of being a kiss ass) and say KP isnt the type of gM who makes in season deals unless its lotto related."

I mean its become a joke with pritchard how bad he is when it comes to taking the big step. i mean if your the twolves or nets... hes your guy.... if you have a great core in place.... your fucked.

Maybe you should see who signs his checks?