Chairman Tom Price with 1,073-page Non-Stimulus Text

[PapaG]

Wow. Bill made available at 11 pm, vote scheduled for 1:30 pm the next day.

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[SodaPopinski]

I'm glad this republican douche took valuable time to record a cute little self-promotional YouTube video rather than actually doing work. Maybe we should get this mental midget the Cliffs Notes version?

-Pop

 

[PapaG]

I'm glad this republican douche took valuable time to record a cute little self-promotional YouTube video rather than actually doing work. Maybe we should get this mental midget the Cliffs Notes version?

-Pop

It seems to me that he had read the bill. What exactly do you like about the bill? Which specifics stand out to you?

 

[SodaPopinski]

It seems to me that he had read the bill. What exactly do you like about the bill? Which specifics stand out to you?

I have people on staff who read them for me. I pay them with a portion of my income, and every 2-4 years I - along with the rest of the people they work for - get to decide whether or not they keep their job.

Or do you not understand how a representative form of government works?

-Pop

 

[blazerboy30]

I'm glad this republican douche took valuable time to record a cute little self-promotional YouTube video rather than actually doing work. Maybe we should get this mental midget the Cliffs Notes version?

-Pop

Chill man. Here is some help

You make Talkhard look non-partisan.

 

[SodaPopinski]

Chill man. Here is some help

You make Talkhard look non-partisan.

It just pisses me off. Here were are in an absolute economic disaster, with people losing their jobs every day, and this idiot is trying to promote himself for 2010. I mean - just the thought that this guy literally wasted taxpayer resources by having someone set up a camera, record it, digitally edit the video and then post it on YouTube rather than actually working on the bill is ridiculous.

Newsflash to the esteemed congressman ... this is a dire situation, and the solutions being proposed are complex. If you wanted a job where you didn't have to read large documents, maybe you should have tried a different career path.

-Pop

 

[BrianFromWA]

I'll put my reading skills up against a lot of people. And I liked Harry Potter books. And the night the last one came out, I stayed up all night reading it. About 800 pages or so, and I finished it by 11am. 11 hours to read an 800 page or so novel.

And our representatives and senators are supposed to read, digest, and formulate a reasoned opinion in 14 1/2 hours to a 1073-page congressional bill?

As an aside, $50M to the National Endowment of the Arts is a "complex" "solution" to our "dire situation" of "absolute economic disaster"? $650 million for TV converter boxes? $400 million to slow the spread of HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases. $40 million to convert the way health statistics are collected? Just one-third of $30 billion proposed by the House for highway construction would reach the economy in the next year and a half, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

But we rely on the representatives you and I pay for, like these gentlemen

"If the house is burning, you're not going to worry about which hose you grab, so long as you get water on the fire," said Rep. David Obey, D-Wis., a chief author of the package.

"You don't want to be against Pell Grants," Ben Nelson of Nebraska said of the $14 to $15 billion for boosting the college scholarship program. "But ... how many people go to work on Pell Grants? Should it be in this legislation if it's not about jobs?"

 

[SodaPopinski]

I stopped reading at "I liked Harry Potter books."


-Pop

 

[BrianFromWA]

That's a shame, b/c there was a great point following that. Laziness is unbecoming in all forms, including not being able to rationally explain a belief you hold.

 

[SodaPopinski]

Laziness is unbecoming in all forms

Yes, it is. But I'll take it over reading a book meant for 11-year-olds.


As to your points about the individual recipients of the stimulus ... do you understand whan an investment package means?

The only thing you posted that I take issue with is the level of funding for the digital tv conversion.

-Pop

 

[PapaG]

I have people on staff who read them for me. I pay them with a portion of my income, and every 2-4 years I - along with the rest of the people they work for - get to decide whether or not they keep their job.

Or do you not understand how a representative form of government works?

-Pop

I understand perfectly how it is supposed to work. Your version seems to include hiring underlings to tell you all the details of the most important bill in the past decade as they hurry to digest it over one night.

How's this, by the way?

We're receiving E-mails from Capitol Hill staffers expressing frustration that they can't get a copy of the stimulus bill agreed to last night at a price of $789 billion. What's more, staffers are complaining about who does have a copy: K Street lobbyists. E-mails one key Democratic staffer: "K Street has the bill, or chunks of it, already, and the congressional offices don't. So, the Hill is getting calls from the press (because it's leaking out) asking us to confirm or talk about what we know—but we can't do that because we haven't seen the bill. Anyway, peeps up here are sort of a combo of confused and like, 'Is this really happening?'" Reporters pressing for details, meanwhile, are getting different numbers from different offices, especially when seeking the details of specific programs.

Nice that lobbyists got fed the bill before the actually people voting on it. Or is that also how "representative" government works in your partisan world? What a clusterfreak.

 

[PapaG]

The Democrats own this bill now, and Boehner is correct because we were promised a 48-hour period for the public to digest the bill.

I guess it's just another example of "representative" government.

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[SodaPopinski]

I understand perfectly how it is supposed to work. Your version seems to include hiring underlings to tell you all the details of the most important bill in the past decade.

?

Hiring underlings? Apparently you didn't understand my point.

I voted for representatives to represent my interests. I have entrusted them with the power to propose and interpret and vote on legislation, not to get all butthurt and cry for their mommy when a big document comes across their desk.

"Waaaaaahhhh ... mommy, we fucked up for the last 8 years, and now we have to fix it, but it's hard. I have to read and I don't get to listen to Rush because I'm supposed to be reading this really big document with lots of big words in it."

Give me a fucking break. I have never seen such a bunch of whiny little bitches than the Republicans ever since Obama took office. Am I in high school again? What the fuck is this? Do your job.

-Pop

 

[SodaPopinski]

The Democrats own this bill now, and Boehner is correct because we were promised a 48-hour period for the public to digest the bill.

I guess it's just another example of "representative" government.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=""></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Is this asshole interested in getting something done or winning an Oscar? What a joke. I especially like how he raises his voice towards the middle and then throws the document down on the floor at the end. I've seen three-year-olds act more mature.

-Pop

 

[barfo]

I think this objection is pretty bogus. First, this is how Washington does business, and always has. Second, the bill didn't just appear out of thin air a day before the vote. The house passed their version awhile back, then the senate passed their version, and what's being voted on now is a compromise between the two. I'm sure they provide some sort of blacklining so that folks don't have to read every word to see what changed from the previous version. Any congressperson complaining about the timing and length of the bill is just grandstanding.

barfo

 

[PapaG]

Is this asshole interested in getting something done or winning an Oscar? What a joke. I especially like how he raises his voice towards the middle and then throws the document down on the floor at the end. I've seen three-year-olds act more mature.

-Pop

Are you saying the Democrats allowed a 48 hour period with the bill posted on the congressional website? I know you're as rabidly pro-Democrat as anybody here, and I take what you say with that in mind, but mentalities like yours do concern me just a bit. Time after time, instead of addressing an issue, you instead lash out with insults or respond with drivel that is barely readable. I've seen you post in a completely objective manner when talking about other subjects, so I have to wonder what the Democrats have on you to have made you their lapdog?

 

[PapaG]

I think this objection is pretty bogus. First, this is how Washington does business, and always has. Second, the bill didn't just appear out of thin air a day before the vote. The house passed their version awhile back, then the senate passed their version, and what's being voted on now is a compromise between the two. I'm sure they provide some sort of blacklining so that folks don't have to read every word to see what changed from the previous version. Any congressperson complaining about the timing and length of the bill is just grandstanding.

barfo

We were told there would be a 48 hour viewing period when the compromised bill was finally authored and was ready to be voted on. That didn't happen. The fact you aren't asking why tells me all I need to know about your political worldview, but the upshot is that your party owns this thing now.

On a side note, I noticed that 7 House Dems voted against it. This means that even if the same 3 GOP members in the Senate vote for it, there will actually be more bi-partisan opposition to the bill than there will be bi-partisan support.

 

[PapaG]

SodaPop had better clue in Dem. Sen. Lautenberg on his "staffing" solution to comprehending some of the bigger issues of our day.

Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) predicted on Thursday that none of his Senate colleagues would "have the chance" to read the entire final version of the $790-billion stimulus bill before the bill comes up for a final vote in Congress.

“No, I don’t think anyone will have the chance to [read the entire bill],” Lautenberg told CNSNews.com.

http://cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=43478

 

[SodaPopinski]

barfo is correct.

This hemming and hawing amounts to political grandstanding.

-Pop

 

[maxiep]

As to your points about the individual recipients of the stimulus ... do you understand whan an investment package means?

-Pop

I think what everyone is trying to say to you is that you don't.

Also, does anyone else find this line of argument interesting? Many Republicans were making the same arguments about Iraq--it's dire! we need to act now or it's the end! you need to trust us!--that the Democrats are making about this economic stimulus package. And now the Democrats are defending willing ignorance. Ah, to be comfortable with hypocracy.

 

[maxiep]

I think this objection is pretty bogus. First, this is how Washington does business, and always has. Second, the bill didn't just appear out of thin air a day before the vote. The house passed their version awhile back, then the senate passed their version, and what's being voted on now is a compromise between the two. I'm sure they provide some sort of blacklining so that folks don't have to read every word to see what changed from the previous version. Any congressperson complaining about the timing and length of the bill is just grandstanding.

barfo

You're assuming that they've been able to acquire the text of the bill. The complaint is that they haven't. Even the smartest person would have trouble digesting a bill they can't get a copy of to read. Next time I'll vote for Kreskin for my US Representative.

 

[SodaPopinski]

I think what everyone is trying to say to you is that you don't.

Really? And how so? Because I believe in something above and beyond tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans?

-Pop

 

[blazerboy30]

Really? And how so? Because I believe in something above and beyond tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans?

-Pop

Nice. You built a sweet one of these.

 

[maxiep]

Really? And how so? Because I believe in something above and beyond tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans?

-Pop

Because an investment should have a positive return. Otherwise, it's just paying people off.

 

[SodaPopinski]

Because an investment should have a positive return. Otherwise, it's just paying people off.

It's in the eye of the beholder, but there's an argument to be made that injecting money directly into industry creates jobs, which, in turn, grows the tax base. There's your return.

Look ... I'm not a huge fan of having to use taxpayer dollars to stimulate the economy, either. But I also know that a prolonged recession has a way of building on itself. And the longer this draws out, the worse it's going to get.

-Pop

 

[barfo]

We were told there would be a 48 hour viewing period when the compromised bill was finally authored and was ready to be voted on. That didn't happen. The fact you aren't asking why tells me all I need to know about your political worldview, but the upshot is that your party owns this thing now.

Which is just fine. My party is in power now, they are responsible for whatever happens.

barfo

 

[barfo]

I think what everyone is trying to say to you is that you don't.

Also, does anyone else find this line of argument interesting? Many Republicans were making the same arguments about Iraq--it's dire! we need to act now or it's the end! you need to trust us!--that the Democrats are making about this economic stimulus package. And now the Democrats are defending willing ignorance. Ah, to be comfortable with hypocracy.

Well, if it turns out that the need for a stimulus bill is as much a lie as the need to invade Iraq, then I expect the Democrats will suffer the consequences, just as the Republicans did.

barfo

 

[barfo]

You're assuming that they've been able to acquire the text of the bill. The complaint is that they haven't. Even the smartest person would have trouble digesting a bill they can't get a copy of to read. Next time I'll vote for Kreskin for my US Representative.

Yet we see photos in this thread of angry congressfolk holding giant piles of paper purported to be the bill. If it isn't the bill, then they are really grandstanding; if it is the bill, they could send it off to the copy room instead of waving it around.

barfo

 

[maxiep]

But I also know that a prolonged recession has a way of building on itself. And the longer this draws out, the worse it's going to get.

-Pop

You should know more, because what you know now is not only insufficient, but incorrect.

 

[maxiep]

Yet we see photos in this thread of angry congressfolk holding giant piles of paper purported to be the bill. If it isn't the bill, then they are really grandstanding; if it is the bill, they could send it off to the copy room instead of waving it around.

barfo

Your supposition is that they've had plenty of time to read it. If they were only provided it today--and in .pdf format which makes it unsearchable--then reading it, understanding it and thinking of a response is too much to ask in that short of a period.