Close Gitmo?

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090123/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/guantanamo_al_qaida

A Saudi militant who was released from Guantanamo Bay after six years of confinement is now a top figure in the Yemeni branch of al-Qaida, a U.S. counterterrorism official confirmed Friday.

Said Ali al-Shihri was released in 2007 to the Saudi government for rehabilitation. He re-emerged this week, identified by a militant-leaning Web site as a top deputy in "al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula," a Yemeni offshoot of the terror group headed by Osama bin Laden.

The Yemeni branch has been implicated in several attacks on the U.S. Embassy in Yemen's capital Sana.

Al-Shihri is one of a small number of deputies in the group, the U.S. counter-terror official said. The official spoke on condition of anonymity in order to discuss sensitive intelligence.

The militant Web site, which referred to al-Shihri under his terror nom de guerre, "Abu Sayyaf al-Shihri," also revealed his Guantanamo prisoner number, 372.

The announcement from the militant site came the same day that President Barack Obama signed an executive order directing the closure of the jail at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, within a year.

A key question facing Obama's new administration is what to do with the 245 prisoners still confined at Guantanamo. That means finding new detention facilities for hard-core prisoners while trying to determine which detainees are harmless enough to release.

At least 18 former Guantanamo detainees have "returned to the fight" and another 43 are suspected of resuming terrorist activities, Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said on Jan. 13. He declined to provide the identity of the former detainees or what their terrorist activities were.

 

[blazerboy30]

I have no idea how much insight Obama had into the real workings / happenings / importance of Gitmo. However, I am guessing that he did not have all information available, considering he was only a junior Senator.

It worries me a bit that he was act so quickly to close Gitmo, assuming that he hasn't had all information and data needed to make the decision.

Does he really know who is being held there?
Does he really know the risks of not having these people there?
Can something be changed about Gitmo that doesn't completely shut it down?

My worry is that he does NOT know the above answers, and he is acting to hastily to shut it down.

I'm not saying Gitmo should be kept open, indefinitely. But unless Obama really does have all the right information, it seems risky to act to quickly to shut it down.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Sounds to me that:

1. gitmo = bad

2. "I'm all about change. let's be different from bush and lets close it!"

3. "uhh..prez, we didn't really think this one through that much did we?"


seems he is looking to make immediate big splashes as soon as he takes office for the sake of making big splashes.

 

[hasoos]

Do you bother to even research something before you write your responses? Gitmo will be closed in a year, that is more than enough time to either,

1. Find a way to try and convict the people in there properly by Law so they can be put in a legitimate prison.

2. Find a home for those that should not longer be imprisoned.


Secondly, if you haven't been paying attention, the stuff they are doing at Gitmo has actually caused more problems thant it solved during the short term. Now because of Gitmo, countries are refusing to extradite terrorist and suspected terorist to the United States for fear they will be tortured. By torturing them, we are losing the allies whose support we need in order to win the battle of idealogy. So basically, we got some information from the few who we got here to Gitmo, and now countries will not export them willingly, so we have cut our own intelligence throats so to speak. The only ones that go there now, are ones we get from our own forces capturing them. Considering the terrorism problem isn't only in Afganistan and Iraq, that is a lot of territory we can no longer get help from.

Lastly the Presiden has to take steps to improve our standing in the world. If we are looked at as no better than Al-Qaida because we torture people ourselves, than it is hard to gain support world wide to solve the problems we have.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

shock and awe!

 

[blue32]

Do you bother to even research something before you write your responses? Gitmo will be closed in a year, that is more than enough time to either,

1. Find a way to try and convict the people in there properly by Law so they can be put in a legitimate prison.

2. Find a home for those that should not longer be imprisoned.


Secondly, if you haven't been paying attention, the stuff they are doing at Gitmo has actually caused more problems thant it solved during the short term. Now because of Gitmo, countries are refusing to extradite terrorist and suspected terorist to the United States for fear they will be tortured. By torturing them, we are losing the allies whose support we need in order to win the battle of idealogy. So basically, we got some information from the few who we got here to Gitmo, and now countries will not export them willingly, so we have cut our own intelligence throats so to speak. The only ones that go there now, are ones we get from our own forces capturing them. Considering the terrorism problem isn't only in Afganistan and Iraq, that is a lot of territory we can no longer get help from.

Lastly the Presiden has to take steps to improve our standing in the world. If we are looked at as no better than Al-Qaida because we torture people ourselves, than it is hard to gain support world wide to solve the problems we have.

Thank god for a rational view on here... sometimes I worry that we've all but been ran off....

 

[barfo]

I have no idea how much insight Obama had into the real workings / happenings / importance of Gitmo. However, I am guessing that he did not have all information available, considering he was only a junior Senator.

He's had intelligence briefings ever since he became President-elect.

barfo

 

[bbwSwish]

Thank god for a rational view on here... sometimes I worry that we've all but been ran off....

Seriously, it gets ridiculous in here. I just read through some of this posts and crack up.

 

[blazerboy30]

He's had intelligence briefings ever since he became President-elect.

barfo

No argument on that.

My question is: does he know all intelligence that is needed to know to make this decision from a few weeks of briefings?

If so, I'm on board. If not, it seems like a rash decision.

My gut tells me he hasn't been briefed on all security issues facing this country, Gitmo included.

 

[blazerboy30]

Do you bother to even research something before you write your responses? Gitmo will be closed in a year, that is more than enough time to either,

1. Find a way to try and convict the people in there properly by Law so they can be put in a legitimate prison.

2. Find a home for those that should not longer be imprisoned.


Secondly, if you haven't been paying attention, the stuff they are doing at Gitmo has actually caused more problems thant it solved during the short term. Now because of Gitmo, countries are refusing to extradite terrorist and suspected terorist to the United States for fear they will be tortured. By torturing them, we are losing the allies whose support we need in order to win the battle of idealogy. So basically, we got some information from the few who we got here to Gitmo, and now countries will not export them willingly, so we have cut our own intelligence throats so to speak. The only ones that go there now, are ones we get from our own forces capturing them. Considering the terrorism problem isn't only in Afganistan and Iraq, that is a lot of territory we can no longer get help from.

Lastly the Presiden has to take steps to improve our standing in the world. If we are looked at as no better than Al-Qaida because we torture people ourselves, than it is hard to gain support world wide to solve the problems we have.

Do you even bother to read peoples' responses before regurgitating things you have read online?

This isn't a conversation about whether or not Gitmo has a positive or negative effect on terrorism, or our standing around the world. (That is clearly a huge discussion).

This conversation is whether or not Obama has the data / information necessary from a few weeks of being president(-elect)

 

[barfo]

No argument on that.

My question is: does he know all intelligence that is needed to know to make this decision from a few weeks of briefings?

If so, I'm on board. If not, it seems like a rash decision.

My gut tells me he hasn't been briefed on all security issues facing this country, Gitmo included.

My gut tells me your gut is wrong. Two months is plenty of time to get up to speed on Gitmo.

barfo

 

[blazerboy30]

My gut tells me your gut is wrong. Two months is plenty of time to get up to speed on Gitmo.

barfo

My gut is bigger than yours and tells me yours is wrong.

Were all two months spent on Gitmo? If so, that is scary. If not, how much was? Does he know everything needed? It seems like a significant security issue.

 

[barfo]

My gut is bigger than yours and tells me yours is wrong.

Were all two months spent on Gitmo? If so, that is scary. If not, how much was? Does he know everything needed? It seems like a significant security issue.

I cannot answer your questions. But how long do you think it would take?

I am not sure if your gut is bigger than mine. I am a retired sumo wrestler, so mine is pretty big.

No, not really.

barfo

 

[hasoos]

Do you even bother to read peoples' responses before regurgitating things you have read online?

This isn't a conversation about whether or not Gitmo has a positive or negative effect on terrorism, or our standing around the world. (That is clearly a huge discussion).

This conversation is whether or not Obama has the data / information necessary from a few weeks of being president(-elect)

By which you were inferring he made the wrong decision. I know I wasn't the only one who read between the lines.

 

[maxiep]

I look forward to those born in other countries bent on the destruction of mine being given all the protections that a citizen of the United States has.

 

[blue32]

I look forward to those born in other countries bent on the destruction of mine being given all the protections that a citizen of the United States has.

Everyone should be given a trial. I think that's my biggest gripe about it. People being held, never getting a trial.

As long as they are given a fair trial, that's cool w/me, then we can go about hanging them, or firing squad, or whatever red-necked ideas you guys got!

 

[maxiep]

Everyone should be given a trial. I think that's my biggest gripe about it. People being held, never getting a trial.

As long as they are given a fair trial, that's cool w/me, then we can go about hanging them, or firing squad, or whatever red-necked ideas you guys got!

I view them as prisoners of war who don't even have the rights of the Geneva Convention applied to them, much less the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I say we get to hold them until we deem the War on Terror over. At that point, they get sent back to their native country. The fact that many are more scared to go home than stay in Gitmo tells me all I need to know about them.

 

[Natebishop3]

Are they closing the base or are they closing the prison? "Gitmo" was a base long before any of this happened. I don't see a reason to close the base when you could simply cease the detainment there.

 

[barfo]

Are they closing the base or are they closing the prison? "Gitmo" was a base long before any of this happened. I don't see a reason to close the base when you could simply cease the detainment there.

Seriously doubt they'd close the base. I think it is just the prison.

barfo

 

[Natebishop3]

Seriously doubt they'd close the base. I think it is just the prison.

barfo

Gotcha. I think it was a bad idea anyway.

 

[blue32]

I view them as prisoners of war who don't even have the rights of the Geneva Convention applied to them, much less the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I say we get to hold them until we deem the War on Terror over. At that point, they get sent back to their native country. The fact that many are more scared to go home than stay in Gitmo tells me all I need to know about them.

That idea is laughable in itself.... Wow.... "war on terror" ?? really? LoL

 

[rocketeer]

This conversation is whether or not Obama has the data / information necessary from a few weeks of being president(-elect)

the only problem with this is there is absolutely no way for any of us to know.

in this situation, i think you kinda have to assume that he had the relevant information or else this wouldn't have happened so quickly.

 

[Denny Crane]

Let em all go in Kenwood. Obama doesn't live there anymore. They're obviously no threat to anyone.

Oddly, nobody's actually responding to the fact in the first post (the news story).

 

[Colonel Ronan]

The morale of the story is that Guatanamo Bay and HMP Belmarsh are both inhumane prisons and should be closed down. I don't know what to make of this guy, but good for him.

 

[barfo]

Let em all go in Kenwood. Obama doesn't live there anymore. They're obviously no threat to anyone.

Oddly, nobody's actually responding to the fact in the first post (the news story).

Gitmo didn't prevent that guy from doing bad things. Apparently, Gitmo wasn't making the right decisions about who to keep and who to release.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Gitmo didn't prevent that guy from doing bad things. Apparently, Gitmo wasn't making the right decisions about who to keep and who to release.

barfo

So release 'em all is the answer?

My take is that these guys are a military threat to us, are not criminals but something closer to POWs, and that when the military decides they're no threat to us on the battlefields they should be let go.

When we first opened Gitmo, I was appalled at the conditions there. It wasn't the torture, but the crude chain link cages the guys were put into. That was made a lot better over time and it's now something like a reasonable prison. It's not a particularly inviting or easy target for their friends to organize an attack against or a jail break.

The bottom line is that Obama IS commander in chief and it's perfectly fine for him to make this kind of decision. But when we let these guys go, they're going back go Al Qaeda.

 

[Denny Crane]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hZfIcWnHqBz4kQR90lC_pXaHeW4Q

Two ex-Guantanamo inmates appear in Al-Qaeda video

2 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AFP) — Two men released from the US "war on terror" prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba have appeared in a video posted on a jihadist website, the SITE monitoring service reported.

One of the two former inmates, a Saudi man identified as Abu Sufyan al-Azdi al-Shahri, or prisoner number 372, has been elevated to the senior ranks of Al-Qaeda in Yemen, a US counter-terrorism official told AFP.

Three other men appear in the video, including Abu al-Hareth Muhammad al-Oufi, identified as an Al-Qaeda field commander. SITE later said he was prisoner No. 333.

A Pentagon spokesman, Commander Jeffrey Gordon, on Saturday declined to confirm the SITE information.

"We remain concerned about ex-Guantanamo detainees who have re-affiliated with terrorist organizations after their departure," said Gordon.

"We will continue to work with the international community to mitigate the threat they pose," he said.

On the video, al-Shihri is seen sitting with three other men before a flag of the Islamic State of Iraq, the front for Al-Qaeda in Iraq.

"By Allah, imprisonment only increased our persistence in our principles for which we went out, did jihad for, and were imprisoned for," al-Shihri was quoted as saying.

Al-Shiri was transferred from Guantanamo to Saudi Arabia in 2007, the US counter-terrorism official said.
The other men in the video are identified as Commander Abu Baseer al-Wahayshi and Abu Hureira Qasm al-Rimi (also known as Abu Hureira al-Sana'ani).

The Defense Department has said as many as 61 former Guantanamo detainees -- about 11 percent of 520 detainees transferred from the detention center and released -- are believed to have returned to the fight.

The latest case highlights the risk the new US administration faces as it moves to empty Guantanamo of its remaining 245 prisoners and close the controversial detention camp within a year.

 

[Denny Crane]

^^^ so now the count is 2 in the latest video and something like 61 in total who have been freed to go back to the battlefields.

 

[BrianFromWA]

First, they aren't American citizens. They aren't subject to the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, or any other American right.

Second, they aren't uniformed members of a military service and there is "ambiguity" about their ability to be considered POWs under Article 3 and Article 5. They weren't subject to Geneva Protection, until 2006 when the Supreme Court decided they had the ability to interpret International Conventions in addition to American Legislation. It seems that in most interpretations, the money quote they use to defend treating them as POWs is the following:

Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.

In the 7+ years since 9/11, I don't know how many "trials", "evidentiary hearings", etc. have occurred. When these gentlemen were let go, who was the trial authority that examined the evidence and allowed to go free? Obviously a not-insignificant number have been proven to take up arms against us again. So once the "competent tribunal" finds that men who go back to terrorist acts aren't really terrorists, are they then "competent" enough to judge the rest? And where do you find such a tribunal?

And what's the point of closing Gitmo if we're going to detain them somewhere else? Why should they be afforded the same rights American prisoners have?

Someone please explain to me why we care about what other countries think about our "morals"? The changes to extradition that have occurred...do you think that it's b/c other leaders think that Americans have suddenly become corrupt over the last 7 years?

 

[BrianFromWA]

Everyone should be given a trial. I think that's my biggest gripe about it. People being held, never getting a trial.

As long as they are given a fair trial, that's cool w/me, then we can go about hanging them, or firing squad, or whatever red-necked ideas you guys got!

Where was McCain's trial in Vietnam? When have our "prisoners" been given trials prior to decapitation? Prisoners of war are prisoners until cessation of hostilies. If they want to go home, they should hope their comrades stop blowing things up, kidnapping, or plotting against governments (theirs or ours).

Are rednecks the only ones allowed to believe in justice, or that law are followed?