Clyde 2nd best SG since 77-78 season?

[ehizzy3]

i didnt watch him play...i was 5 when he won a ring in houston...but if you look at numbers, and achievements, its a no brainer....who was more clutch?

 

[ehizzy3]

Guess what doesn't matter when it comes to basketball skill? Awards.

Steve Nash has 2 MVP awards. Has he EVER been the best player in the league? Nope. Not even close.

Kobe is an solid defender. Clyde was better. More steals. More blocks. Better defensive rating.

Since you admit you've never seen him play, I'll take it that you'll admit that you have no clue what you're talking about.

note i said, FINALS mvp...not regular season,but kobe does have one of those too.

 

[STOMP]

I'll take it that you'll admit that you have no clue what you're talking about.

I don't sense that he's admitting that, but am hopeful that he'll experience an epiphany

STOMP

 

[ehizzy3]

Min's list is a good start on an all-time best guess (I'd add James)... but then I'm only 42 and didn't get to see West, Oscar, Wilt, Russell, Barry (but for one year), Baylor, Cousy, and probably a few others worthy of mentioning. I wouldn't weigh in on such a list when I know that my opinion on those guys is worthless... and you've got a much longer list of unknowns

Since you asked, Clyde was a better run/jump athlete. Kobe has a better jumper, but Clyde was the man on the break/open court. Dude drove and dunked on everyone all game. If he'd enjoyed the advantages of being a marketable Laker instead of being behind the numbers in Portland... geez how many extra FTs is that worth over a career?

Greatness is dependent on how you define it. This statistical query rated single season production towards wins, which is a stat that is effected by having quality teammates. If one places a high value on championships then you come up with a different list even though that is also dependent on the quality of teammates. If it's straight subjectivity of who's game impressed you the most then lots of different factors can matter, but it sure helps to have seen the guy actually play.

STOMP

do you have lebron over kobe?

 

[ehizzy3]

I don't sense that he's admitting that, but am hopeful that he'll experience an epiphany

STOMP

men lie, woman lie, numbers dont.

 

[STOMP]

men lie, woman lie, numbers dont.

and ignorance is bliss

STOMP

 

[Cake]

i didnt watch him play...i was 5 when he won a ring in houston...but if you look at numbers, and achievements, its a no brainer....who was more clutch?

A no brainer? Yeah...sounds like it.

I like how you keep dismissing actual measurable things, like defensive ratings, passing, rebounding, etc...then pulling out bullshit like 'all defense team' and 'clutchness.' Clearly you can't be convinced that ANYONE you never saw play could possibly be as good as Kobe Bryant. That's fine.

Kobe is a fine scorer.

 

[Minstrel]

Min's list is a good start on an all-time best guess (I'd add James)

Yeah, I wasn't counting James due to length of career to date, but I expect James to be a top-five player when all is said and done. He's right there with MJ as the best players in my lifetime.

 

[STOMP]

do you have lebron over kobe?

as far as single season greatness, hell yes. I haven't seen the wins produced list for SFs but I'd bet dollars that LJ's list easily trumps KBs. For a production reference comparing the two in PER stats, if the season ended today James (@25 y/old) woud have the 4 highest seasonal ratings. By far Kobe's best PER year was when he was 27 y/old. He's doing this in Cleveland...

STOMP

 

[Cake]

men lie, woman lie, numbers dont.

Given that:

You never seen Clyde Drexler play. And...

You say that Kobe is better than Clyde Drexler.

On which lie is it that you're basing your completely uninformed opinion? Man, woman or statistic? I'm guessing none of the above. Ass pulling and or watching a few Laker's games where they TOLD you Kobe was amazing!

Dude...face the facts. Clyde was brilliant. If Clyde had played his entire career in Los Angeles and Kobe had played his entire career in Portland, we'd be having this same conversation in reverse.

 

[ehizzy3]

A no brainer? Yeah...sounds like it.

I like how you keep dismissing actual measurable things, like defensive ratings, passing, rebounding, etc...then pulling out bullshit like 'all defense team' and 'clutchness.' Clearly you can't be convinced that ANYONE you never saw play could possibly be as good as Kobe Bryant. That's fine.

Kobe is a fine scorer.

both have a career defensive rating of 105. clyde averaged a whole ONE rebound more than kobe. and one more assist..soo yeah i guess he's better at those. but not by much.

clutchness is bullshit? really? REALLY? and how is all defense bullshit?


oh and guess who has the higher almighty PER?

 

[ehizzy3]

as far as single season greatness, hell yes. I haven't seen the wins produced list for SFs but I'd bet dollars that LJ's list easily trumps KBs. For a production reference comparing the two in PER stats, if the season ended today James (@25 y/old) woud have the 4 highest seasonal ratings. By far Kobe's best PER year was when he was 27 y/old. He's doing this in Cleveland...

STOMP

i love lebron. hes my favorite player not on the blazers. im waiting for him to win a few rings before i put him in the top 10-20.(he has stepped up tho, like the game winning three last year against orlando, and a few years back he had like 25+(?) points straight against the pistons)

 

[FeloniusThunk]

both have a career defensive rating of 105. clyde averaged a whole ONE rebound more than kobe. and one more assist..soo yeah i guess he's better at those. but not by much.

clutchness is bullshit? really? REALLY? and how is all defense bullshit?


oh and guess who has the higher almighty PER?

Clutchness is mostly bullshit, but not completely. I don't know of any real number-crunching go back very far, but if you want to take more than "it just is" shot at it, http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/how-do-you-determine-clutch/ and http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/14218/new-numbers-on-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time are good starts. For defense, neither Clyde or Kobe have been real difference makers, except for some nice highlights.

PER rewards inefficient scorers, so tends to be popular because it matches the same bias most people have: scoring is what matters most. WoW's stats, in the original post, do not. So Fat Lever has had some of the greatest seasons any SG has had, even though he was never a big time scorer. For a few years, though, he was a constant threat for a triple double every every damn night, and came close to averaging that. You may not think he was all that great, though, if you think 5 more points a game was more important. If so, you're probably also wondering why Iverson has no seasons on that list.

Kobe has been one of the best, but looking at overall impact in the game, over a season, has generally not been quite as efficient in scoring, passing, or rebounding, etc. That's what those numbers say. If you want to diasagree (and many would), you'll pretty much have to resort to one of these strategies: total scoring is much more important, something that can't be measured is much more important (e.g. "I just know", clutch, leadership), something outside the games are more important (e.g. awards, championships, contracts), or the stats are wrong (inconsistent for different eras/teams, unfairly awarded free throws/fouls, etc.). Personally, I wonder if Clyde would have looked even better with no-handchecking rules we have now, but we'll never know.

 

[KingSpeed]

yes very imaginary.....can you tell me something clyde did better than kobe? rebounding? is that it?

Everything. Rebounding, yes (Clyde once averaged 7.9 rpg in a season, Kobe never did that). Passing, yes (Clyde once averaged 8 apg in a season, Kobe never did that). Steals, yes (Clyde once averaged 2.7 spg in a season, Kobe never did that).

Clyde was incredible. If it weren't for Jordan, he would've been the greatest player of his time. He did everything on the court. The key steal, block. If there was a key rebound or loose ball, there'd be a crowd of people around it and then out of that crowd would come Drexler, with the ball, racing down the court and jamming it on the other end.

We were soooooo good in the 1990-91 season and Clyde was a big part of that. Yes, we blew it in the playoffs (to one of the great teams of all time), but during the season, holy shit. We looked like the best team of all time. I remember Barkley raving about us constantly. It was either he or Reggie Miller that season (I think it was Reggie) who called us the best team ever. We DOMINATED teams. In one game against the Spurs (the team we had just beaten in a 7 game series the season before), we led 49-18 after one quarter. Drexler had a near triple double in that quarter, I think.

Check this out. Danny Ainge knows what I'm talking about (and Jordan played with Bird, and against Magic & MJ):

[video=youtube;ctrCrJoEYO8]

 

[BlazerBeav]

Not only did Clyde not get all the favorable calls that Kobe gets, he also had to deal with a senior referree who held a personal grudge against him. Jake O'Donnell was forced into retirement after throwing Clyde out one too many times.

 

[Masbee]

i didnt watch him play...i was 5 when he won a ring in houston...but if you look at numbers, and achievements, its a no brainer....who was more clutch?

Actually, Kobe's "Clutch" numbers are pretty average at best. Kobe has a "clutch" reputation because he has rings and because he takes SOOOO many would be clutch shots that folks remember the hits and not all the many, many misses.