Collins vs Magloire

[MikeDC]

OK, I went through the 10 top 5-man lineups for both players and matched up the equivalent Collins vs. Magloire matchups.</p>

</p>

<table width="742" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 557pt;" x:str="">
<col width="64" style="width: 48pt;"></col> <col width="230" style="width: 173pt;"></col> <col width="64" span="7" style="width: 48pt;"></col>
<tbody>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td width="64" height="15" style="height: 11.25pt; width: 48pt;" class="xl22">Magloire</td>
<td width="230" style="width: 173pt;"></td>
<td width="64" style="width: 48pt;"></td>
<td width="64" style="width: 48pt;"></td>
<td width="64" style="width: 48pt;"></td>
<td width="64" style="width: 48pt;"></td>
<td width="64" style="width: 48pt;"></td>
<td width="64" style="width: 48pt;"></td>
<td width="64" style="width: 48pt;"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td width="64" height="15" style="height: 11.25pt; width: 48pt;" class="xl23">#</td>
<td width="230" style="width: 173pt;" class="xl23">Unit</td>
<td width="64" align="right" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl23">Min</td>
<td width="64" align="right" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl23">Off</td>
<td width="64" align="right" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl23">Def</td>
<td width="64" align="right" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl23">+/-</td>
<td width="64" align="right" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl23">W</td>
<td width="64" align="right" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl23">L</td>
<td width="64" align="right" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl23">Win%</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td width="64" height="15" x:num="" style="height: 11.25pt; width: 48pt;" class="xl24">1</td>
<td width="230" style="width: 173pt;" class="xl25">Kidd-Wright-Jefferson-Williams-Magloire</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">28</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">51</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">60</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:fmla="=D3-E3" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">-9</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">1</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">1</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl24">50</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td width="64" height="15" x:num="" style="height: 11.25pt; width: 48pt;" class="xl27">2</td>
<td width="230" style="width: 173pt;" class="xl28">Armstrong-Wright-Carter-Nachbar-Magloire</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">18</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">35</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">45</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:fmla="=D4-E4" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">-10</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">2</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">3</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl27">40</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td width="64" height="15" x:num="" style="height: 11.25pt; width: 48pt;" class="xl24">3</td>
<td width="230" style="width: 173pt;" class="xl25">Kidd-Wright-Carter-Jefferson-Magloire</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">15</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">34</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">24</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:fmla="=D5-E5" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">10</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">2</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">0</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl24">100</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td width="64" height="15" x:num="" style="height: 11.25pt; width: 48pt;" class="xl27">4</td>
<td width="230" style="width: 173pt;" class="xl28">Kidd-Carter-Jefferson-Nachbar-Magloire</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">9</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">24</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">6</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:fmla="=D6-E6" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">18</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">2</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">0</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl27">100</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td width="64" height="15" x:num="" style="height: 11.25pt; width: 48pt;" class="xl27">6</td>
<td width="230" style="width: 173pt;" class="xl28">Kidd-Wright-Jefferson-Allen-Magloire</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">6</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">7</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">7</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:fmla="=D7-E7" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">0</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">1</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">1</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl27">50</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td width="64" height="15" x:num="" style="height: 11.25pt; width: 48pt;" class="xl24">7</td>
<td width="230" style="width: 173pt;" class="xl25">Kidd-Wright-Jefferson-Nachbar-Magloire</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">5</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">14</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">9</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:fmla="=D8-E8" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">5</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">3</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">1</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl24">75</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td width="64" height="15" x:num="" style="height: 11.25pt; width: 48pt;" class="xl24">9</td>
<td width="230" style="width: 173pt;" class="xl25">Kidd-Carter-Jefferson-Krstic-Magloire</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">3</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">9</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">9</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:fmla="=D9-E9" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">0</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">0</td>
<td width="64" align="right" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">0 </td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl24">0</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;"></td>
<td></td>
<td align="right">Min</td>
<td align="right">Off</td>
<td align="right">Def</td>
<td align="right">+/-</td>
<td align="right">W</td>
<td align="right">L</td>
<td align="right">Win%</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;"></td>
<td>Totals - Magloire</td>
<td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(C3:C9)" x:num="">84</td>
<td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(D39)" x:num="">174</td>
<td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(E3:E9)" x:num="">160</td>
<td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(F3:F9)" x:num="">14</td>
<td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(G3:G9)" x:num="">11</td>
<td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(H3:H9)" x:num="">6</td>
<td align="right" x:fmla="=G11/SUM(G11:H11)" x:num="0.6470588235294118" class="xl32">65%</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;"></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;" class="xl22">Collins</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td width="64" height="15" style="height: 11.25pt; width: 48pt;" class="xl23">#</td>
<td width="230" style="width: 173pt;" class="xl23">Unit</td>
<td width="64" align="right" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl23">Min</td>
<td width="64" align="right" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl23">Off</td>
<td width="64" align="right" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl23">Def</td>
<td width="64" align="right" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl23">+/-</td>
<td width="64" align="right" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl23">W</td>
<td width="64" align="right" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl23">L</td>
<td width="64" align="right" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl23">Win%</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td width="64" height="15" x:num="" style="height: 11.25pt; width: 48pt;" class="xl30">5</td>
<td width="230" style="width: 173pt;" class="xl25">Kidd-Wright-Jefferson-Collins-Williams</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">16</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">45</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">39</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:fmla="=D15-E15" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">6</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">2</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">2</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl24">50</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td width="64" height="15" x:num="" style="height: 11.25pt; width: 48pt;" class="xl31">10</td>
<td width="230" style="width: 173pt;" class="xl28">Kidd-Wright-Carter-Nachbar-Collins</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">4</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">10</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">5</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:fmla="=D16-E16" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">5</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">1</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">0</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl27">100</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td width="64" height="15" x:num="" style="height: 11.25pt; width: 48pt;" class="xl31">2</td>
<td width="230" style="width: 173pt;" class="xl28">Kidd-Wright-Carter-Jefferson-Collins</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">28</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">53</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">43</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:fmla="=D17-E17" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">10</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">3</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">2</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl27">60</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td width="64" height="15" x:num="" style="height: 11.25pt; width: 48pt;" class="xl30">9</td>
<td width="230" style="width: 173pt;" class="xl25">Kidd-Carter-Jefferson-Nachbar-Collins</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">4</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">5</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">11</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:fmla="=D18-E18" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">-6</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">0</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">2</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl24">0</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td width="64" height="15" x:num="" style="height: 11.25pt; width: 48pt;" class="xl30">7</td>
<td width="230" style="width: 173pt;" class="xl25">Kidd-Wright-Jefferson-Allen-Collins</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">5</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">9</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">13</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:fmla="=D19-E19" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">-4</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">1</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">2</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl24">33.3</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td width="64" height="15" x:num="" style="height: 11.25pt; width: 48pt;" class="xl31">4</td>
<td width="230" style="width: 173pt;" class="xl28">Kidd-Wright-Jefferson-Nachbar-Collins</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">18</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">26</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">40</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:fmla="=D20-E20" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">-14</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">2</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl29">2</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl27">50</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td width="64" height="15" x:num="" style="height: 11.25pt; width: 48pt;" class="xl30">1</td>
<td width="230" style="width: 173pt;" class="xl25">Kidd-Carter-Jefferson-Collins-Krstic</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">65</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">102</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">142</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:fmla="=D21-E21" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">-40</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">1</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl26">5</td>
<td width="64" align="right" x:num="" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl24">16.6</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;"></td>
<td></td>
<td align="right">Min</td>
<td align="right">Off</td>
<td align="right">Def</td>
<td align="right">+/-</td>
<td align="right">W</td>
<td align="right">L</td>
<td align="right">Win%</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;"></td>
<td>Totals - Collins</td>
<td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(C15:C21)" x:num="">140</td>
<td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(D1521)" x:num="">250</td>
<td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(E15:E21)" x:num="">293</td>
<td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(F15:F21)" x:num="">-43</td>
<td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(G15:G21)" x:num="">10</td>
<td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(H15:H21)" x:num="">15</td>
<td align="right" x:fmla="=G23/SUM(G23:H23)" x:num="0.4" class="xl33">40.0%</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</p>

Obviously this is a really small sample size since the season is only just begun, but it suggests to me that Magloire is the better option.</p>

 

[MikeDC]

To Summarize:</p>

</p>
<table width="678" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 509pt;" x:str="">
<col width="230" style="width: 173pt;"></col> <col width="64" span="7" style="width: 48pt;"></col>
<tbody>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td width="230" height="15" style="height: 11.25pt; width: 173pt;">Group</td>
<td width="64" style="width: 48pt;"></td>
<td width="64" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl27">Off/48</td>
<td width="64" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl27">Def/48</td>
<td width="64" x:str="'+/- 48" style="width: 48pt;">+/- 48</td>
<td width="64" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl27">W</td>
<td width="64" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl27">L</td>
<td width="64" style="width: 48pt;" class="xl27">Win %</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">Totals - Magloire</td>
<td></td>
<td x:num="99.428571428571445" class="xl26"><span style=""> </span>99.4</td>
<td x:num="91.428571428571416" class="xl26"><span style=""> </span>91.4</td>
<td x:fmla="=C2-D2" x:num="8.0000000000000284" class="xl28"><span style=""> </span>8.00</td>
<td align="right" x:num="">11</td>
<td align="right" x:num="">6</td>
<td align="right" x:fmla="=F2/SUM(F2:G2)" x:num="0.6470588235294118" class="xl24">65%</td>
</tr>
<tr height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">
<td height="15" style="height: 11.25pt;">Totals - Collins</td>
<td></td>
<td x:num="85.714285714285722" class="xl26"><span style=""> </span>85.7</td>
<td x:num="100.45714285714286" class="xl26"><span style=""> </span>100.5</td>
<td x:fmla="=C3-D3" x:num="-14.742857142857133" class="xl28"><span style=""> </span>(14.74)</td>
<td align="right" x:num="">10</td>
<td align="right" x:num="">15</td>
<td align="right" x:fmla="=F3/SUM(F3:G3)" x:num="0.4" class="xl25">40.0%</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>

 

[Aurelino]

A quick answer would be that Collins has had the misfortune of playing with the worst lineup on the Nets:</p>

kidd, Carter, RJ, Krstic and collins are -40 in 65 minutes, and it has to do in large part with the struggles of krstic and Vince early on. Magloire doesnt have to play with Krstic much at all.</p>

 

[Dumpy]

um, no, it doesn't. It suggests that Collins is better alongside Sean Williams and Magloire is better alongside a non-rebounding jump shooter (Krstic, Boki), and they are roughly equivalent alongside a quartet of Kidd-Carter-Wright-RJ. Where have I heard that before?</p>

 

[Teaneck_Armory_Guy]

It's all spurious.</p>

 

[MikeDC]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aurelino)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

A quick answer would be that Collins has had the misfortune of playing with the worst lineup on the Nets:</p>

kidd, Carter, RJ, Krstic and collins are -40 in 65 minutes, and it has to do in large part with the struggles of krstic and Vince early on. Magloire doesnt have to play with Krstic much at all.</p>

</div></p>

If you subtract out that lineup for both players, Magloire still comes out ahead. And you actually equalize out the minutes which makes the comparison more fair.</p>

As a side note, it's kind of funny to say playing an extra 65 minutes with what are obviously the Nets 4 best players (yeah, I know Krstic is hurt) is some kind of handicap.

</p>

</p>

 

[MikeDC]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

um, no, it doesn't. It suggests that Collins is better alongside Sean Williams and Magloire is better alongside a non-rebounding jump shooter (Krstic, Boki), and they are roughly equivalent alongside a quartet of Kidd-Carter-Wright-RJ. Where have I heard that before?</div></p>

Where does the data say that? There's all of 16 minutes of Collins-Williams there and 28 minutes of Magloire-Williams. That's a very small sample size, and while the C-W lineup is +6 and the M-W lineup is -9, they're both at .500 in terms of winning/losing their stints together.</p>

I don't disagree with the logic that Magloire would be better next to a shooter at all, but I don't see the logic for Collins, who can't do anything being a good fit next to Williams.</p>

</p>

 

[Dumpy]

the Collins-Williams tandem is the best two-man combination on the nets in terms of plus-minus.</p>

 

[MikeDC]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

the Collins-Williams tandem is the best two-man combination on the nets in terms of plus-minus.</div></p>

Great, but based on the 5 man units, the <u>Nets</u> appear to be better with Magloire when considered as a whole, rather than with Collins.</p>

</p>

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MikeDC)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

the Collins-Williams tandem is the best two-man combination on the nets in terms of plus-minus.</div></p>

Great, but based on the 5 man units, the <u>Nets</u> appear to be better with Magloire when considered as a whole, rather than with Collins.</p>

</p>

</div></p>

</p>

If you think that the first line for each player includes too small a sample size to have relevance, that's fine, but then this entire exercise is pointless. I'm sticking to my guns on this one; Collins + Williams + the big three would be a solid unit; Krstic should come off the bench; and Krstic and Collins should be together as little as possible.</p>

 

[J.S]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MikeDC)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

the Collins-Williams tandem is the best two-man combination on the nets in terms of plus-minus.</div></p>

Great, but based on the 5 man units, the <u>Nets</u> appear to be better with Magloire when considered as a whole, rather than with Collins.</p>

</p>

</div></p>

home game anomaly.</p>

</p>

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jerkstore)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

^ home game anomoly.</p>

</div></p>

</p>

yes; I believe it was theWashington game on November8 where Magloire was part of a furious comeback. In fact, Washington went on a 16-0 run right after the start of the game, and the Nets staged a furious comeback in the seond half. Collins was minus-21 in 12 minutes, and Magloire was plus-28 in 28 minutes. The reasons for that discrepancy go far past what those two guys offered; the nets went through some serious shooting dry spells while Collins was on the floor, in the first half of the first and third quarters, while the winless Wizards came out on a mission. For instance, Magloire was just 1-5 from the floor with three turnovers, one block, and no steals, so he didn't really contribute to the comeback, at least statistically. I refuse to let a one game anomoly dictate whether we think Collins is better than Magloire orvice versa. Maybe Collins was terrible that game; maybe Magloire was good that game; maybe it had to do with who the Wizards had in their frontcourt, I don't know--but is was just one game, and we shouldn't overemphasize its importance. As more and more games pass, the impact of that one game will get less and less, as Magloire will continue to suck. If we subtract out that one game and rerun the numbers, they'll tell a different story. Or, just as interesting, if we just run the numbers since that game--the length of the losing streak--Magloire wouldn't look so great. BTW, the combintations that went nuts that game were Magloire plus the big three, with either Boki or Wright.</p>

 

[MikeDC]

[quote name='Dumpy']</p>

[quote name='MikeDC']</p>

[quote name='Dumpy']</p>

the Collins-Williams tandem is the best two-man combination on the nets in terms of plus-minus.[/QUOTE]</p>

Great, but based on the 5 man units, the <u>Nets</u> appear to be better with Magloire when considered as a whole, rather than with Collins.</p>

[/QUOTE]If you think that the first line for each player includes too small a sample size to have relevance, that's fine, but then this entire exercise is pointless.[/quote]</p>

The idea is to combine lines for players to build a large sample size. In time, there will be enough minutes, I would think, to look at pairs too. I just don't see how 10-20 minutes is worth doing. 80 minutes + is still a small size, but it's starting to be worth it.</p>

I'm sticking to my guns on this one; Collins + Williams + the big three would be a solid unit; Krstic should come off the bench; and Krstic and Collins should be together as little as possible.

</p>

Krstic isn't anything close to healthy. When he is, I don't see any reason why he'd be a bad fit with Williams. They'd look like far and away the best frontcourt players the Nets have. Krstic is mostly a shooter and Williams looks like he'll be a guy who's best off close to the basket.</p>

</p>

 

[J.S]

^ Not for nothin, but building a numeric model off a half tanked start is not going to yield much useful info, at least not in terms of Maglorie vs. Collins.

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MikeDC)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Krstic isn't anything close to healthy. When he is, I don't see any reason why he'd be a bad fit with Williams. They'd look like far and away the best frontcourt players the Nets have. Krstic is mostly a shooter and Williams looks like he'll be a guy who's best off close to the basket. </p>

</div></p>

</p>

I've never said that Krstic wouldn't be a good fit with Williams. I guess it is possible you haven't read my 837 posts about this, but I'm basing my comments on the assumption that Collins will be part of the rotation, and I am trying to build units to take advantage of his strengths and weaknesses as they pertain to the composition of the rest of the team. If you start Kidd-Carter-RJ-Sean-Krstic, it may be marginally better than Kidd-Carter-RJ-Sean-Collins, but then the team suffers offensively whenever Collins is brought into the game later with some number of reserves. Kidd-Carter-RJ-Sean-Collins will be quite good, and if you use Krstic when Carter or RJ is out of the game, you'd be able to utilize him better. Sean-Collins is better than Collins + any other big, although Collins + Boone may have some potential once he gets his act together.</p>

Coach Frank likes Collins to play with a big who can shoot, though. Hence, the Collins-Malik pairing.</p>

 

[Jizzy]

Christ sake, haven't seen that many numbers since my last pay check.</p>

 

[Teaneck_Armory_Guy]

What this is, is the slim, glimmer of the start of a slight beginning of something called Hypothesis Testing:</p>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_hypothesis_testing</p>

Null Hypothisis: something like...Player 1 - Jason Collins is a better fit with a given lineup</p>

Alternate Hypothesis: Player 2 - Magloire</p>

And the very 1st step may be the toughest, since you got to determine somehow the marginal distribution of the impact of one player based upon a 10-player multivariate distribution. Of course, first you have to gather a whole lot of data. When you get a handle on all that, you've got to choose an appropriate distribution to model your marginal distribution, as well as most likely group and smooth it (maybe with a technique like the Method of Least Squares). From there you might want to test your goodness of fit of the chosen distribution via a Chi-Square test. Then you've got to do the same thing for the alternate hypothesis (i.e. for the 2nd player).</p>

When your done, you'll have something that you can use to accept or reject in terms of your Null Hypothesis (i.e. player 1 has the greatest impact) within the given constraints of your tolerance. But you will still have not mathematically "proven" anything. You will have merely gathered supporting evidence. Nor does the possibility go away that another Alternate Hypothesis wouldn't cause you to reject your Null Hypothesis.</p>

I Jason Kidd you not and would never Josh Boone anyone on this.</p>

</p>

 

[jarkid]

The Collins defenders usually believe in the 82 games stats,</p>

right now even the +/- stats is not favorable to Collins, they still give you a lot of reasons.</p>

Collins is the best big man in the world, Ewing + Duncan + Shaq can't even beat him out.</p>