Conservative hate for Libertarians

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bluefrog

Go Blazers, GO!
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John Stossel wrote a mediocre peice labeling Romney as a big government guy. It's not a bad argument, just poorly poorly formed.

Many people agreed with him but I was surprised at the amount of hate Stossel and Libertarians were getting from some readers.

Here area few examples:

bonziiii said:
libertarians love to pick apart every thing they hear a candidate say. mitt romney will do more for this country than any dope smoking libertarian ever would. if there's one thing the libertarian party is good at is being a bunch of unaccomplished whiners. stossell is running with a small thing Mitt said and is coming to his own conclusions. He said he going to PEEL BACK REGULATION. any moron knows that you have to regulation in a free market
John4694 said:
Stossel is a Libertarian, If you want to know his mindset, just get the Libertarian Manifesto . Talk about extreme. And if we were to be forced to live by it. Our country would find itself in complete chaos. Stosselis a very intelligent man, but I wonder why he cannot see that.
Cartwright said:
Stossel once began a paragraph by saying, "Our close relative, the chimpanzee, ….." As soon as I realized he wasn't kidding, I knew I could never take him seriously again
algae said:
Funny how the leftist liberal conversion happened overnight and they are now.. tada.. claiming the libertarian mantel. Since Ø tanked in the debate, that's the only donkey they feel can now do the trick.

Most Libertarians would soundly reject all of these pathetic libtroll attempts at division because they would recognize it as what it was. Political warfare.
RandomTraveler said:
John Stossel sounds like a rabid progressive. What is he doing writing at Townhall? He needs to go over to MSNBC where his comments will be more appreciated. Oh, right, he is part of Fox Business Network. Go back to FOX and leave Townhall, John. You don't belong here with your antagonistic drivel!!!!
Panda said:
No one wants big government more than John Stossel, because he actually gears all his efforts to recruiting votes away from Barack Obama's only numerically viable foe--Mitt Romney.

Now THAT is hardcore, progressive activism.
c136 said:
Voting for Mitt Romney to keep Obama out of office is a valid reason. Voting for Mitt Romney because you think he's a better candidate than Gary Johnson means you're against capitalism.
Otho said:
I should have known that a professed "Paul-bot" libertarian would pull all of the Gary Johnson and Ron Paul supporters out of the woodwork to spout the nonsense of how voting for a third-party candidate will not affect the outcome. Foolish people, understand this: not ONE person who is liberal/progressive will vote third-party. Not ONE. Therefore, a vote for a third-party candidate ONLY takes votes away from the conservative. Period. Wake up! I mean, if you love Obama's "Rule" so much, fine, vote for him or your third-party. Otherwise...
Horribilus said:
I'm so proud of Stossel for finally doing an article that doesn't call for the legalization of drugs that I hate to quibble, but I'm going to. Stossel says, "He added the obligatory, "Regulation can become excessive," but showed no sign of understanding that free competition -- unrestricted by government monopolistic privilege -- is the best regulation. Nothing better protects consumers and workers than free choice in a competitive marketplace."

HIstory, Scripture, and a general knowledge of human condition prove Stossel wrong on this point. The robber barrons being the most modern example of the need for government regulation historically. The Old Testament law gives very clear examples of what the government should regulate to...
John1921 said:
Libertarians and leftists agree -- normal human society is a drag. Leftists want to replace the natural structure with their own, made-up rules. Libertarians want to junk society completely and live solitary lives like tigers and gibbons. Neither alternative is possible, given innate, immutable, inherited Human Nature, but Leftism is an extension of behavior beyond limits, while Libertarianism is a rejection of Homo sapiens' natura/normal behavior completely. The world record for a Leftist society is about 70 years (USSR), while the record for Libetarian utopias (various free-love communes) is half that. From Marx, to Weimar, to Freud, to Ayn Rand, to George Soros, heeding the social/cultural/religious advice of Jews is always wrong.
 
To be fair, libertarians are the Statler & Waldorf of political parties.
 
Will Denny and Maxiep defect to Obama to get revenge against conservatives?
 
I've heard many people refer to the "Libertarian wing of the Republican party" but this situation goes completely against that notion. It basically tells Libertarians: "We'll take your votes but leave your ideas at the door".
 
I'm a big Stossel fan.

Stossel gets air time on Fox Business channel and an hour a week (I think) on Fox News. He worked for ABC for 30 years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...use-it-sucked/2012/04/12/gIQAaMrKDT_blog.html
When John Stossel joined Fox Business Network and Fox News in 2009, it wasn’t because he had a job offer. “I went over and begged, ‘Please hire me. I can’t stand it anymore,’ ” said Stossel in an interview with the Heritage Foundation’s Rob Bluey.

Stossel said he left “because it sucked there.” He went on to describe a working condition where ABC “tolerated him for years” and “held their noses,” but by the end Stossel said he was looking for the closest door.

Granted, he somehow lasted 30 years at ABC, but he is surely much happier at Fox where he is a bit more than "tolerated."

As a long time actual Libertarian, I've debated with other Libertarians the strategy for the Party. For example, I question if is it better to spend what limited funds we have on getting on the ballots in 50 states only to get an optimistic 1% or 2% of the vote. I have repeatedly suggested that these funds would be better spent focused on a lesser but high profile office, like governor of California or better yet, Senator from California.

Like at ABC, Libertarian ideas tend to get buried. Yet opportunity to speak on the floor of the senate regularly is a year-round megaphone that can't easily be buried. Surely once Libertarian ideas are injected into the social debates, the party's popularity will grow.

Along came Ron Paul. He used the system against itself. He ran as a Republican so he could get elected, which he did. Prior to that, he ran for president on the LP ticket, and obviously lost. He got his megaphone and was reelected every time he ran for his House seat. As presidential candidate, he went from obscurity (1988 as Libertarian) to a household name in 2008 to a guy who had ~200 delegates at the Republican Convention, ~10% as many as Romney. His ability to raise money and generate a loyal following has moved the Libertarian Party and cause from obscurity to main stream (hey, even YOU are writing about it).

When you realize that it's a massive uphill battle to be fought, and it's going to take time, you do what you have to do. If it means using the Republican Party as a means to elected office, you do it. The Democratic Party is not an option.

As to the "conservatives" who disagree with Libertarians? LOL. Libertarians aren't "Conservatives," we don't vote for "Conservatives," we recruit "Conservatives!" (and Democrats, too).

Consider the Tea Party movement. Here's the platform:

http://www.teaparty-platform.com/

If you are so violently opposed to the Tea Party, please point out which plank of this platform you disagree with.

Of course, the platform is entirely inspired by Libertarian philosophy though not 100% of the way there. The movement itself proves that there is a significant portion of the population that is more than open to Libertarian ideas.

I want Obama to lose. But I want Romney to lose, too. I want Obama to lose more. This doesn't mean I'd vote for Romney. <-- there's a word "for" in that sentence, and I'm NOT "for" Romney.

The good news is that 6 of 8 years of republicans controlling Senate/House/Presidency has been followed by 2 years of democrats controlling all 3, and people clearly don't like either. They are realizing they need to stop picking one or the other with unfavorable results, and that's where WE (the people) get noticed.

Put another way, actual Conservatism is based upon three principles: Libertarianism, Anti-Communism, and Traditional Values. Because there is the element of Libertarianism (republicans talk about smaller government, keeping govt. off peoples' backs, economic Liberty), a Libertarian candidate can be noticed.

What we have today in the Republican Party isn't Conservatism, it's something else. There's lip service to Libertarianism, right? Govt. in the bedroom, govt. grew under their control, anti-immigrant, anti-gay, and so on.

The communist bogey man is dead. It died with the USSR. I think with that being the case, there can not be any true Conservatism anymore. However, there is a tinge of Libertarianism in anti-communism, right? ANTI-AUTHORITARIANISM.

Traditional Values has been morphed into something else entirely. Where it originally meant values passed on from generation to generation (like work ethic, blood is thicker than water, etc.), it now has some religious context to it. Yuk. Traditional Values means all men created equal (not segregation!), we keep ourselves out of wars, etc.

So these same people you say are posting hate toward Stossel and Libertarians aren't Conservatives, which is fine. They didn't agree with Ron Paul for his foreign policy (bring the troops home). Their rhetoric hasn't changed much since then.

They didn't back Romney before he was the nominee, did they? Now they so desperately want Obama to lose they'll vote for the guy?

I'm fine with letting them spew whatever.
 
As an aside, the piece is well written and perfectly fine.

In fact he nailed it:

"Romney emphasizes revenue neutrality because he doesn't want to be accused of proposing to increase the budget deficit, which he repeatedly pounded Obama over. He could avoid that charge by calling for spending cuts. Our deficit is a spending, not a tax revenue, problem. The federal government already collects $2.6 trillion! That's more than enough."

I'd also point out that TownHall.com is home to many "conservative" writers (you found a good site for your research). Yet they publish Stossel.

I'd also point out that I don't see the comments you quoted in the opening post to be representative of the comments posted on Stossel's article. For example:

The election has already been won - by a statist who will give us bigger government. The Romney/Ryan budget INCREASES government spending by 3.1% each year, which is greater than inflation+population growth. If Obama is elected, at least we'll have divided government and the House will likely put a brake on Obama's spending. But even they have shown they are RINO/statist controlled, as less than 30% of the 2010 Tea Party class voted to end the Dept. of Energy "green" "investment" program that's given us Solyndra, Abound Solar and other waste.

What would be so bad with Obama another 4 years as compared to Romney? They both talk one line, and act another. Romney, as governor, increased spending 32% (more than Obama) and debt by 52% (about the same as Obama).
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/state_spending_2002MAbn
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/state_spending_2007MAbn

And Romney claims he balanced the MA budget (its constitution requires it - but don't ignore the debt loophole).

Like Bush promised us a "humble" foreign policy and less government, expect the same from Romney, and the same results: Democrats retaking the House and controlling all branches of government in 2016. Also look to a trade war with China, a war with Iran, and a VAT tax .

etc.

So it looks to me like there are plenty of Libertarians who are speaking up against "conservatives" on that site.
 
In either party where there are only two main parties, there are going to be tensions. I don't think that it's unhealthy that socially conservative Republicans and libertarian Republicans don't agree on everything, but I don't know that comments on an online article are true indications of the level of that disagreement.

Ed O.
 
I don't think it's fair to label Romney a Big Government guy based solely on his responses in a debate. I'd like a little meat in Stossels argument, some examples from Romney's record that shows he has a history of growing government.

Instead Stossel's argument relies on skepticism:
Stossel said:
He (Romney) added the obligatory, "Regulation can become excessive," but showed no sign of understanding that free competition -- unrestricted by government monopolistic privilege -- is the best regulation.
Stossel said:
He (Romney) also said he'd "make government more efficient."

Gee, haven't other politicians thought of that? The claim is meaningless.
Stossel said:
"I will eliminate all programs by this test: Is the program so critical it's worth borrowing money from China to pay for it? And if not, I'll get rid of it."

Great. But I don't believe it
 
Geez. Romney's not a smaller govt. guy.

His budgets forecast a faster than inflation growth of govt. spending.

I mean, there's reason to be skeptical, not just a hunch.

It's also fair to say that "waste fraud and abuse" has been the buzz phrase of many a politician, yet when you look at how much of that there is, it's spit in the bucket. (not much)

RomneyCare. Is that so critical it's worth borrowing from China? I think Stossel begs to differ (as do I).
 
In either party where there are only two main parties, there are going to be tensions. I don't think that it's unhealthy that socially conservative Republicans and libertarian Republicans don't agree on everything, but I don't know that comments on an online article are true indications of the level of that disagreement.

Ed O.

Really, my main exposures online to conservative ideals are this site and Fox News. I've never read anything with this amount of contempt for Libertarians coming from the right until this article. I thought it was interesting enough to share.
 
Geez. Romney's not a smaller govt. guy.

His budgets forecast a faster than inflation growth of govt. spending.

I mean, there's reason to be skeptical, not just a hunch.

It's also fair to say that "waste fraud and abuse" has been the buzz phrase of many a politician, yet when you look at how much of that there is, it's spit in the bucket. (not much)

RomneyCare. Is that so critical it's worth borrowing from China? I think Stossel begs to differ (as do I).

Not what I'm arguing at all.
 
Heh.

FWIW, Ron Paul has not endorsed either of the past two republican nominees, and his delegates showed proper contempt for the republican party's process of keeping Paul from a speaker's spot at the convention.

The feeling is mutual :)
 
Not what I'm arguing at all.

OK, a different approach then.

Stossel said:
Now maybe people will listen when Mitt Romney says things like, "The genius of America is the free enterprise system, and freedom, and the fact that people can go out there and start a business. ... The private market and individual responsibility always work best."

They do.

But then Romney responded to Obama by essentially saying: I want big government, too!

We who hope for smaller government as a way to expand liberty and create prosperity are disturbed by what we heard last week. The GOP candidate painted himself as a big government man.

"Regulation is essential. ... Every free economy has good regulation."

I think he laid the grounds for his case just fine and pretty much first thing in his article.
 
I don't understand the point of this thread. Doesn't everyone hate libertarians?

barfo
 
King George III did.

Karl Marx did, too.

As did Hitler and Mao and Stalin and Pol Pot and quite a few other guys you might know of.
 
The founders were Libertarians. When I look up the word Libertarian in my encyclopedia, there's a picture of Thomas Jefferson at the top of the article.

Thus you can figure that Marx didn't like them because they were as pro property rights as possible.

I think the list in my 3rd sentence includes those who are not for individual rights nor did they "cherish" the individual. They are certainly statists of the highest order.
 

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