Countdown to J. Moore being traded

[kreidertime]

Well, I've seen enough to see this guy will be included in a package of some sort. Skjei will replace him next year. I think they are pretty confident Allen can replace him now. Hunwick is not the answer.

Wonder if they can put Moore in a package for Stewart or Riley Nash at this point.

 

[chuckd3534]

I have no issue dealing Moore, but his cap hit is under 1 mill and Stewart's cap hit is over 4 mill, so they would have to include other players that make some money and/or the Sabres would need to eat some money.

As for Hunwick, by no means is he special in any way. But he is okay as the 6th dman. I actually think he does exactly what AV wants him to do, be safe and make the smart play most of the time. Sure he has a game or two where he really struggled, but for the most part he has been a solid play the %'s dman.

Hunwick is at 17 mpg. Moore is at 15:25 mpg. That shows more trust in Hunwick. Hunwick is a +7. Moore is a -2. That is a very big difference even if you do not believe +/- is an important or telling stat. It shows my point which is Hunwick is a safe dman most of the time. Moore is much higher risk, and AV said that flat out the other day.

I do think packaging Moore could be a smart thing. I would have to think he'd have value to Edmonton or Buffalo given his salary and the fact that he is only an RFA. We agree there. But I think Hunwick is fine to be in the 6th dman mix and usually plays a sound higher % safe game. Won't do anything special, but usually doesn't F you either, and for a 6th dman that is not bad.

 

[theProdigy223]

I could be wrong but I think I read somewhere that he is arbitration eligible this year and is guaranteed at least 1.15 million. Again, not sure if that's true but if it is this will undoubtedly be his last season with the Rangers.

 

[chuckd3534]

His cap hit now is 850 K, so 1.15 mill is really not that much more. I think he has been passed over on the team and down below, the emergence of Klein to go with the big 3 has helped make him more expendable.

The question to me is what's Moore worth around the league? Does he have some value where we can package him for a solid top 9 forward with some size or would it be a deal for a pick or something along those lines?

I am not sure, but what I am sure of is we need to be going for it. This team is really not far off from being a legit SC threat. A top 9 forward with size, and maybe if we can swing both, a decent dman with some size is all we need. Make it happen Glen. This is a now team.

 

[kreidertime]

I'm sure Moore is better than the crap 5-10 teams are using on defense for sure. Just a matter of what they want to get back for a package they include him in.

 

[chuckd3534]

I tend to agree dump, and think we could put Moore in a package. My first choice would be a bigger top 9 forward. If we cannot get that I would target a bigger physical dman.

Considering Moore has a smaller cap hit AND is still under control as a RFA AND has upside to be a top 4 dman at some point, I would think he has some value. If you package Moore, a pick or prospect, and another player you should be able to get what we need.

Our issue is the cap. So we'd either have to include another player off the roster to balance the cap OR send Glass and Stemp down to bury some money (I think you can bury 900 K per player in the minors) OR have the team we deal with retain some of the cap hit we are getting.

I would think if we offered Moore and a pick or prospect we could get Stewart and get Buffalo to retain some of the cap hit. Then send down Stemp or Glass to give us an extra 900 K.

 

[puck2]

5th and 6th D-men around this league are always in a state of change. Moore and Hunwick are probably the among the better last pair you will find. The Rangers' D is good enough to bring home a Stanley Cup if you combine them with top first line, balanced scoring from other lines, The King in top form and the PK and PP effective. Offense will ultimately determine where Ranger's season goes.

 

[chuckd3534]

I agree with you puck. All along I have said our D is good enough. All along I have said having Moore or Hunwick as our 6th dman was good enough (they are not the 5th and 6th dmen or the last pair...only 1 needs to play as the 6th dman). So I agree.

I think once we get a consistent 3rd line to go along with our very solid first two lines, then we'll be a legit SC threat. That is Sather's job at the trade DL. Find us that guy who gives us a consistent 3rd line...hopefully with some size.

 

[panzerporter]

J. Moore is still only 23 with upside while though steady, Hunwick at 29 is what he is, a capable fill-in. Hunwick isn't a long term solution I'd rather see him gone and Allen/Moore platooning.

 

[kreidertime]

I don't think you can get crap for Hunwick. Moore on the other hand might be appealing to other teams.

 

[chuckd3534]

For sure. No one is giving us anything for Hunwick. Moore has value, and still RFA years left.

I guess I don't understand the Hunwick hate. We are very weird on this board sometimes. Focus on things that aren't issues. Hunwick is what I said he was earlier. Nothing special at all, but makes the smart high % play way more often then not. Isn't that exactly what you want out of your # 6 dman? Isn't that why AV plays him 17 mpg when in the lineup? Isn't that why he is a +7 compared to Moore's -2?

Sure he has had a game or two where he struggled, but not many more than that IMO, but he is at worst decent for a 6th dman IMO.

 

[kreidertime]

Hunwick has done a great job filling in. I just don't want to ever see this guy play a playoff game because he's not good enough. Not big enough. Not strong enough.

 

[panzerporter]

No hate on Hunwick, just think there are 3 younger, better options with developmental upside. Hunwick is a decent skater with average offensive ability but offers very little physically so when he's crowded by a forecheck Matt's a turnover machine. Aside from the last week of October when he logged 5 assists Hunwick hasn't done squat. We are only talking about the 6th spot on the defensive unit but all the more reason to plug in a Moore/Allen/McIlrath.

 

[chuckd3534]

Hunwick is not an offensive player, couldn't agree more. But who cares. He is not here to score. He is here to be a 6th dman and make positive plays, and limit the low % plays, which he does for sure.

Is he the future here...of course not...but for now to me there is no issue with Hunwick being our 6th dman...none at all. I think we should be focused on other things that are issues or potential issues, not our 6th dman who by every measure of a 6th dman has been at worst decent.

 

[chuckd3534]

Hunwick has done a great job filling in. I just don't want to ever see this guy play a playoff game because he's not good enough. Not big enough. Not strong enough.

And that I disagree with. He is a 6th dman. This is where I think we live in a fantasy world where teams 6th dmen are all great players.

You ALWAYS say dump some of these good teams have trash on D...and I agree. Now you are knocking our 6th dman who has been solid and is a +7. I honestly don't get it. We have WAY more important things to focus on to improve the team IMO.

I am not saying if something falls into our lap we don't improve from Hunwick at # 6, of course we do, but adding a bigger top 9 forward is way more important IMO.

 

[kreidertime]

He's only been solid against average to poor offensive teams. Against good offensive teams he's been embarrassingly bad.

 

[Ranger71]

Moore/Hagelin/prospect for Perron and Petry would be a good upgrade for the rest of the year.

 

[chuckd3534]

He's only been solid against average to poor offensive teams. Against good offensive teams he's been embarrassingly bad.

We'll agree to disagree dump. He has been fine as a SIXTH DMAN. If we can get a star as our 6th dman, and somehow fit him under the cap, and somehow also add what we need WAY MORE which is a top 9 forward with size...then so be it. Otherwise Hunwick is more than fine as a SIXTH DMAN.

I will say this, to me this shows how good we have been because all you guys can find to focus your complaints on is our SIXTH DMAN. I know on this board it has to be something, so I take it as a we are a darn good team when that has now become the focus....

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

I would love to hear the other teams number 6 and 7th dman to compare hiw shitty hundwick and moore are

 

[kreidertime]

I think we will see a J. Moore deal soon with Glass included. Winnipeg is looking for a left handed defenseman. They have nothing on the roster I want that they would give up. Glover is a right handed defenseman prospect about 4 years away. He might be a good long term investment for Moore.

Perhaps Moore back to Columbus with Glass for a couple of third round picks in 2015. They have 3. They have to eat Glass as part of the deal. Jack Johnson sucks beyond belief as a defenseman. That scrub should have been moved to forward years ago. They can't keep him back there. He's a disaster trying to defend.

 

[chuckd3534]

I don't understand dump. Why would we trade Moore for picks/prospects? Are we rebuilding and I missed it? I would be SHOCKED if we dealt away players on the current team/NHL roster, outside of Glass who nobody wants anyway, for picks or prospects. We are in it to win it, not to deal J. Moore (the co-6th dman) for picks and prospects.

The only caveat I will add is if we make another deal that brings in players I could see it. Like we deal for a 3rd line forward and another dman, then we flip Moore for picks and prospects. But just a one off deal I don't see us giving up players for picks and prospects.

 

[kreidertime]

Because he's not playing regularly, they have a replacement in Allen who is NHL ready and they pretty much are going to deal him in the off-season anyhow. Skjei is pretty much a lock to take his spot if you listen to Sather and Gordon. They could get more for him now. Every team in the off-season thinks their defenseman prospects are good, can win a spot and their teams are OK. As every year we see most of the NHL teams have crap defenseman and their defenseman prospects turn out to be garbage. The smart move is to move a player not in your plans this and next year when you can get the most. That is now.

 

[chuckd3534]

That's just it though. I have no issue moving Moore, but not for picks/prospects, I want him in a package for a player that can help us now.

So my "disagreement" with you is not centered around dealing Moore, it is centered around the return. Deal him in a package for the top 9 foward we need. That is the smart play, not for picks and prospects. And that is how you started this thread saying package Moore...and I agreed 100%.

 

[strudwickisthebest]

or how about we keep as many players who played in the Stanley Cup final together instead of the disbanding the team. Let's take a note from Boston and Detroit.

 

[chuckd3534]

Wait...did I miss Detroit in the cup finals recently? Did I miss Boston winning all these cups? Maybe I did so I am asking.

And dealing our 6th/7th dman in a package for a top 9 forward I don't think equals breaking up the core of the team.

 

[strudwickisthebest]

Chuck don't be a jackazz, when those teams were making it to the finals they had pretty much the same team each year. Team Chemistry

Remember that unstoppable Paille/Campbell/Thornton line?

Yea, let me add LA Kings to the list.what did they have last year 21/23 guys on the roster who won in 2012?

 

[chuckd3534]

Teams change. The Wings haven't done anything in years. The Bruins made the SCF's twice. Not sure how me calling that out is being a jackass.

What about the Hawks? They have changed their team a lot and won two cups. The Kings added Carter when they won their first cup. Added Gabby when they won their 2nd cup. So I disagree with you.

I think ideally you want to keep your core players, and we do that with Nash, and Step, and Brass, and McD, and Girardi, and Hank, and Zucc, and Staal. But fringe players change like Richards, and Boyle, and Stralman, and Pouliot, and maybe Moore. Change happens in the NHL because of the cap. It has to. We are no different. And we need another top 9 forward IMO, and holding onto our 6/7 dman Moore for "chemistry" is not what I would do if I could package him for that forward we need.

 

[Stepupstepan]

Moore is not part of the core and should be dealt in a package to get either a scoring forward or physical d-men.

 

[Ranger71]

They should deal Moore and a prospect for Petry.

 

[chuckd3534]

If I am going to deal Moore I want to get a better player. Not simply package him with a prospect for essentially the same player on D. I don't really see the logic in that.

If you are going to deal Moore you do it for a top 9 forward. Not for a dman who is actually smaller than Moore.