Crazy thought: Nowitzki!

[Jontro]

LMA for Dirk? Maybe if you throw in Oden as well, Dallas MIGHT think about it..

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

LMA for Dirk? Maybe if you throw in Oden as well, Dallas MIGHT think about it..

Don't kid yourself. Portland wouldn't trade LMA for the aging Dirk. Dallas is close to rebuiding as the core they have now is a fringe playoff team. Oh!

 

[rocketeer]

Don't kid yourself. Portland wouldn't trade LMA for the aging Dirk. Dallas is close to rebuiding as the core they have now is a fringe playoff team. Oh!

portland would at least consider it. dallas wouldn't. the only thing that could maybe get dallas to think about it is that aldridge is from dallas but even then they would need more to give up dirk.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

As Dirk ages his defense will get worse (even worse than it is now, scary thought.) A big no thnx to Dirk.

 

[KingSpeed]

If Dirk isn't a proven loser then Kobe and Michael Jordan aren't proven winners. They just happened to play on good teams.

 

[Minstrel]

portland would at least consider it. dallas wouldn't. the only thing that could maybe get dallas to think about it is that aldridge is from dallas but even then they would need more to give up dirk.

I don't agree. I don't think either side would consider it, just as Chicago wouldn't consider Rose for Nash, despite Nash being better right now. The window is wrong, Aldridge's youth changes the value equation.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

I don't agree. I don't think either side would consider it, just as Chicago wouldn't consider Rose for Nash, despite Nash being better right now. The window is wrong, Aldridge's youth changes the value equation.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Minstrel]

If Dirk isn't a proven loser then Kobe and Michael Jordan aren't proven winners. They just happened to play on good teams.

Correct. Of course, Kobe and Jordan are/were superior players to Nowitzki. But they aren't "winners," and Nowitzki isn't a "loser." There's no winning and losing ability. There's just production (which I'm using to encompass offensive and defensive effectiveness).

 

[rocketeer]

If Dirk isn't a proven loser then Kobe and Michael Jordan aren't proven winners. They just happened to play on good teams.

had kobe and jordan not played with good players, they would have the "proven loser" label just like any other player would. it's a dumb label to give anyone and yes, winning and losing is much more a product of the team a player is on than that one player's ability.

and how again does a "proven loser" lead his team to 67 regular season wins? or lead them to the finals over "proven winners" like the spurs?

 

[Natebishop3]

had kobe and jordan not played with good players, they would have the "proven loser" label just like any other player would. it's a dumb label to give anyone and yes, winning and losing is much more a product of the team a player is on than that one player's ability.

and how again does a "proven loser" lead his team to 67 regular season wins? or lead them to the finals over "proven winners" like the spurs?

I don't know... some of those Bulls teams were very mediocre as far as overall talent. Once you've gotten past Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman, the team was very average. Kerr was a good shooter, Harper was a decent scorer, but some of the guys they paraded out to man the center position were pretty terrible. Luc Longley... Jason Caffey... Brian Williams (Bison Dele)... Jud Buechler. Just a lot of role players that knew to get Jordan the ball.

 

[KingSpeed]

had kobe and jordan not played with good players, they would have the "proven loser" label just like any other player would. it's a dumb label to give anyone and yes, winning and losing is much more a product of the team a player is on than that one player's ability.

and how again does a "proven loser" lead his team to 67 regular season wins? or lead them to the finals over "proven winners" like the spurs?

choked when it mattered

just like George Karl.... man, he has coached more choke jobs than any coach in the history of sports

first he coached the Sonics into a first round choke job. then he coached them into another first round choke job. and then, in his best choke job ever, he took a Bucks team that was in 1st place in March and ushered them into the lotto by the third week of April.

anyway... went off on a tangent there.

 

[rocketeer]

choked when it mattered

so driving to the basket, scoring, and making the free throw and then blocking a shot at the other end to send game 7 against the spurs into overtime(and eventually winning to go to the conference finals and then on to the finals) is choking when it matters most?

so malone and stockton are "proven losers" as well then? pretty much any star player that didn't win a championship is a "proven loser" to you?

 

[Natebishop3]

Some really great players never won a title.

Barkley... Ewing..... Reggie Miller.... Stockton.... Malone.... Chris Mullin....

 

[rocketeer]

I don't know... some of those Bulls teams were very mediocre as far as overall talent. Once you've gotten past Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman, the team was very average. Kerr was a good shooter, Harper was a decent scorer, but some of the guys they paraded out to man the center position were pretty terrible. Luc Longley... Jason Caffey... Brian Williams (Bison Dele)... Jud Buechler. Just a lot of role players that knew to get Jordan the ball.

so other than the best player of all time, a hall of famer, and a borderline hall of famer they lacked talent?

other than those 3 kukoc, harper, bj armstrong, and horace grant were pretty good players. and kerr is one of the best shooters ever. those teams didn't lack talent. without jordan they won 55 games.

 

[KingSpeed]

so driving to the basket, scoring, and making the free throw and then blocking a shot at the other end to send game 7 against the spurs into overtime(and eventually winning to go to the conference finals and then on to the finals) is choking when it matters most?

so malone and stockton are "proven losers" as well then? pretty much any star player that didn't win a championship is a "proven loser" to you?

He did kick ass in that Spurs series. But then, when it really really mattered, and his team was up 13 in the 4th quarter in Game 3, he let it slip away. He didn't step up and make sure his team won like Dwyane Wade DID.

I like Stockton and Malone. They gave it their all. And they got robbed in 1998. In the first half of Game 6, Howard Eisley made a long buzzer beating three and they waived it off. Said it was a shot clock violation. But if you watch the replay, he got it off in plenty of time. THEN, in the second half, Ron Harper made a shot that was ABSOLUTELY late and they gave him the two points anyway. So that's 5 points that the Jazz lost. And THEN, Jordan pushes off, commits the foul, travels, and then makes a shot to win a game that should've been over if Howard Eisley's basket had counted. It's total bullshit. There should've been a Game 7.

 

[KingSpeed]

Poor Bison Dele... disappearing like he did

He had a fucking great series against the Sonics in 1994 with the Nuggets. Remember LaPhonso Ellis? He was great too. My brother immediately ran out and bought a LaPhonso Ellis jersey that spring.

 

[rocketeer]

He did kick ass in that Spurs series. But then, when it really really mattered, and his team was up 13 in the 4th quarter in Game 3, he let it slip away. He didn't step up and make sure his team won like Dwyane Wade DID.

dirk didn't have the luxury of going to the free throw line 97 times in those 6 games. that's 16 times per game.

I like Stockton and Malone. They gave it their all. And they got robbed in 1998. In the first half of Game 6, Howard Eisley made a long buzzer beating three and they waived it off. Said it was a shot clock violation. But if you watch the replay, he got it off in plenty of time. THEN, in the second half, Ron Harper made a shot that was ABSOLUTELY late and they gave him the two points anyway. So that's 5 points that the Jazz lost. And THEN, Jordan pushes off, commits the foul, travels, and then makes a shot to win a game that should've been over if Howard Eisley's basket had counted. It's total bullshit. There should've been a Game 7.

yeah but if they weren't such losers, they would have stepped up and made sure their team won like jordan did. sounds dumb, doesn't it?

 

[Natebishop3]

so other than the best player of all time, a hall of famer, and a borderline hall of famer they lacked talent?

other than those 3 kukoc, harper, bj armstrong, and horace grant were pretty good players. and kerr is one of the best shooters ever. those teams didn't lack talent. without jordan they won 55 games.

I think it was pretty obvious I was focusing on the later Bulls teams... not the Bulls from the early 90's. And I never said they "lacked talent". I said that once you got past Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman, the team was very average.

Yes, they had Kukoc, but Kukoc was also one of the streakiest players on the team. Some nights he was on fire, others he would disappear. My point is, The team was built around Jordan and Pippen. Just a bunch of role players, none of whom went on to do much of anything on other teams (outside of Kerr). They even plugged in Robert Parish for one season... that's just proof that they could put almost anyone in their center spot and win games. Parish was so far gone at that point, it was sad to watch him try to run up and down the floor.

 

[KingSpeed]

I think it was pretty obvious I was focusing on the later Bulls teams... not the Bulls from the early 90's. And I never said they "lacked talent". I said that once you got past Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman, the team was very average.

Yes, they had Kukoc, but Kukoc was also one of the streakiest players on the team. Some nights he was on fire, others he would disappear. My point is, The team was built around Jordan and Pippen. Just a bunch of role players, none of whom went on to do much of anything on other teams (outside of Kerr). They even plugged in Robert Parish for one season... that's just proof that they could put almost anyone in their center spot and win games. Parish was so far gone at that point, it was sad to watch him try to run up and down the floor.

Don't forget James Edwards and John Salley!

 

[KingSpeed]

dirk didn't have the luxury of going to the free throw line 97 times in those 6 games. that's 16 times per game.


yeah but if they weren't such losers, they would have stepped up and made sure their team won like jordan did. sounds dumb, doesn't it?

Dwyane stepped up and made big play after big play. He went to the line because he was aggressive in getting to the basket. But it was his midrange game down the stretch that impressed me. He hit every big shot. It was one of the most impressive individual performance in an NBA Finals series ever.