CRC Project Dead (1 Viewer)

[BLAZER PROPHET]

YIPPEE!!!!

That said, I am not opposed to a new bridge, but this one was a useless project and I think a toll is not the way to go as well as taking monies for the elderly, schools and poor from outer Oregon counties. I hope they find a new idea with better funding.

http://www.kgw.com/news/Kitzhaber-213749731.html

PORTLAND -- After years of work and millions of dollars spent, Oregon Governor John Kitzhaber says the Columbia River Crossing project is dead.

Lawmakers in Washington state finished their 2013 session without funding their half of the project.

The CRC would have replaced the interstate 5 bridge between Oregon and Washington.

On Saturday, Washington's senate refused to vote on a transportation funding package needed to secure the project.

Oregon had committed $450 million to the project, but without a similar pledge from Washington, the project loses its federal funding.

Washington Governor Jay Inslee slammed leaders in the senate for not acting. Oregon governor John Kitzhaber released a statement in the wake of the transportation budget failure.

“I am extremely disappointed that our legislative partners in the Washington State Senate failed to address the clear and present safety and economic need for this essential I-5 bridge,” he said.

Washington Senator Ann Rivers of La Center, a critic of the project, responded as well.

“Although a door has closed on what I believe was a deeply-flawed proposal, this is a great opportunity to create a new, much better Columbia River Crossing without the issues of the original plan,” she said.

Back in may, Washington state representative Liz Pike said the project planning phase alone had already cost more than $170 million.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Washington would have passed it if Oregon hadn't insisted the bridge include light rail.

Vancouver wants nothing to do with Tri-Met and light rail yet Oregon keeps trying to shove it down their throat.

Also the federal funding is now gone. I'm not sure how you're going to better fund it while not taking money from other areas of both states and not have a toll without it.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Washington would have passed it if Oregon hadn't insisted the bridge include light rail.

Vancouver wants nothing to do with Tri-Met and light rail yet Oregon keeps trying to shove it down their throat.

Also the federal funding is now gone. I'm not sure how you're going to better fund it while not taking money from other areas of both states and not have a toll without it.

I think there was also a concern over the several hundred millions of dollars in cost overruns they have already identified and how that would be paid for.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Question: what do y'all think about building a private bridge? Would you like that someone could do it (presumably, without a bunch of publicly-funded overruns) at no taxpayer cost, or hate that some big, bad corporation could use it to gouge users out of their money? The toll road out to Dulles Airport in DC/Virginia is corporately-owned, and the oversight on tolls is done by the state's Corporation Board, not the Department of Transportation or any budgetary process.

I mean, if Chris Hansen wants to invest half a billion in a bridge he could charge every car $3 to cross instead of the Sonics' new arena, would that be ok with you?

 

[ABM]

Vancouver wants nothing to do with Tri-Met and light rail yet Oregon keeps trying to shove it down their throat.

Perhaps, but they (Vancouverites) sure do appear to commute daily across the river....and back. Maybe.....just maybe....the light rail would help reduce some of that afternoon parking lot.

 

[MARIS61]

Completely unneeded mega-expense boondoggle. Any bridge between Portland and Vancouver should be 100% Washington expense.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Perhaps, but they (Vancouverites) sure do appear to commute daily across the river....and back. Maybe.....just maybe....the light rail would help reduce some of that afternoon parking lot.

There have been two different ballot measures over the years about extending light rail to Vancouver and they have both been overwhelmingly rejected by Vancouver voters. There have also been polls and focus groups done with Vancouver citizens and those showed that they didn't want light rail. The State of Oregon and Tri-Met ignored this and only submitted plans for a bridge that included light rail.

 

[ABM]

There have been two different ballot measures over the years about extending light rail to Vancouver and they have both been overwhelmingly rejected by Vancouver voters. There have also been polls and focus groups done with Vancouver citizens and those showed that they didn't want light rail. The State of Oregon and Tri-Met ignored this and only submitted plans for a bridge that included light rail.

Well, of COURSE they don't want to have to pay for it!

 

[Further]

I say fuck em. The people who avoid taxes by living in WA and working in OR can spend two hours in traffic every day as the problem worsens.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Well, of COURSE they don't want to have to pay for it!

Well fuck, I didn't think of that way. Cheap ass inbreed bastards. They should listen to Portland. We know what's best for Vancouver. We're more liberal and educated.

 

[ABM]

I say fuck em. The people who avoid taxes by living in WA and working in OR can spend two hours in traffic every day as the problem worsens.

There's nothing I hate worse than a sales call in Vancouver between 3ish and 5ish.

Er, wait! Then, there's Beaverton! :MARIS61:

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Question: what do y'all think about building a private bridge? Would you like that someone could do it (presumably, without a bunch of publicly-funded overruns) at no taxpayer cost, or hate that some big, bad corporation could use it to gouge users out of their money? The toll road out to Dulles Airport in DC/Virginia is corporately-owned, and the oversight on tolls is done by the state's Corporation Board, not the Department of Transportation or any budgetary process.

I mean, if Chris Hansen wants to invest half a billion in a bridge he could charge every car $3 to cross instead of the Sonics' new arena, would that be ok with you?

The problem I have with a toll is that it will shift a lot of traffic to I-205. In particular semi trucks and that corridor will be near unusable. At that time they will have to place a toll on I-205 to relieve the congestion. That is a rip off to people who commute.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Perhaps, but they (Vancouverites) sure do appear to commute daily across the river....and back. Maybe.....just maybe....the light rail would help reduce some of that afternoon parking lot.

On this point, I agree. I don't understand the opposition to Max into Vancouver.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I say fuck em. The people who avoid taxes by living in WA and working in OR can spend two hours in traffic every day as the problem worsens.

I pay 100% Oregon taxes (for which I get nothing) + WA sales tax. I pay double. Why are you bitching about that? You should like the fact of higher taxes.

 

[PapaG]

I think there was also a concern over the several hundred millions of dollars in cost overruns they have already identified and how that would be paid for.

Well, there's that, and also that they didn't want to add more lanes because they wanted to discourage people from driving.

Hey, let's rebuild the same bridge, not increase the car capacity, and sell it to the public.

 

[PapaG]

On this point, I agree. I don't understand the opposition to Max into Vancouver.

Because there is no reason for Max to be in "downtown" Vancouver. Maybe if it went east, but 'old' Vancouver is industrial with the Port, Frito Lay, Tetra Pak, etc. Many of the people who work there live in Vancouver, and the Max would be useless.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Because there is no reason for Max to be in "downtown" Vancouver. Maybe if it went east, but 'old' Vancouver is industrial with the Port, Frito Lay, Tetra Pak, etc. Many of the people who work there live in Vancouver, and the Max would be useless.

There are a lot of people living in Vancouver who work in downtown Portland. Extending the yellow line seems like a good idea.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Well, there's that, and also that they didn't want to add more lanes because they wanted to discourage people from driving.

Hey, let's rebuild the same bridge, not increase the car capacity, and sell it to the public.

Studies state the current bridge is good for 50 years with minor repairs. It can also be refitted and last for 100 years at a fraction of the cost of a new bridge.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

There are a lot of people living in Vancouver who work in downtown Portland. Extending the yellow line seems like a good idea.

We'd love it if the yellow line is extended into Vancouver. Then you guys could share in the cost of operating it. Only 20-30% of the operating cost is covered by fares. The rest comes from taxes. (For comparison 70% of the operating costs for buses is covered by fares.)

Do you guys want a streetcar/trolley too? Only 5% of the fares (no one is riding it and the few that do aren't paying) covers the annual operating costs.

 

[PapaG]

Studies state the current bridge is good for 50 years with minor repairs. It can also be refitted and last for 100 years at a fraction of the cost of a new bridge.

I'm not opposed to making a "MAX bridge". I work in Vancouver a few days a week. What I never understood was rebuilding the same bridge with the same lanes. I was a stupid idea to 'discourage people from driving'. People like their cars. Some people prefer public transit, and I do agree that the MAX line would reduce the southbound congestion in the mornings, and the northbound traffic in the evening. Luckily, I go against traffic on my commutes to Vancouver.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I'm not opposed to making a "MAX bridge". I work in Vancouver a few days a week. What I never understood was rebuilding the same bridge with the same lanes. I was a stupid idea to 'discourage people from driving'. People like their cars. Some people prefer public transit, and I do agree that the MAX line would reduce the southbound congestion in the mornings, and the northbound traffic in the evening. Luckily, I go against traffic on my commutes to Vancouver.

The main problems with the CRC was that the Oregon dems intentionally lied about too many aspects of it and that doomed it for the WA state legislature. They felt they couldn't trust the OR politicians.

 

[PapaG]

The main problems with the CRC was that the Oregon dems intentionally lied about too many aspects of it and that doomed it for the WA state legislature. They felt they couldn't trust the OR politicians.

Let's be clear. It was the PORTLAND Dems who lied about the CRC, not any other Dems. I'm not a Democrat, but this was a Portland boondoggle from Day One. It was doomed once the Oregonian published the front page story a few years ago that there wouldn't be an increase in lanes to alleviate traffic. I think the Oregonian thought that would help the project, but outside of Blazer games, MAX isn't exactly full. The N. Interstate trains are rarely full, and often empty, yet they delay traffic to Swan Island.

 

[MickZagger]

I'm about to move back to North Portland for the simple fact that I'm tired of spending 2 hours commuting everyday. BS.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

outside of Blazer games, MAX isn't exactly full.

It's standing room only during the hours of 7a-10a and 3p-8p every week day in both directions, even with a Max every 6 minutes... Trust me on that one.

 

[Nikolokolus]

You could add as many lanes to that bridge as you like, but there's no getting around the Rose Quarter/405 bottleneck; there's nowhere to add capacity unless they went double-decker, but that would be prohibitively expensive.

 

[Nikolokolus]

It's standing room only during the hours of 7a-10a and 3p-8p every week day in both directions, even with a Max every 6 minutes... Trust me on that one.

Yup. I ride it every day and there's no shortage of people using the thing.

 

[julius]

Good, it was a stupid plan and a waste of money. Not only that, there's cheaper, simpler fixes they could do (there's a website on it, that I think someone posted on here once).

I say add a 3rd bridge to it somehow (not sure how though) or a tunnel. Have the tunnel start up a bit south of the crossing, and end up somewhere near the I-5/205 exchange. It's doable if we think forward instead of like we're Sam Adams.

 

[barfo]

I'm glad the CRC is dead.
I didn't like the cheap-ass ugly design.
I didn't like the anything-but-cheap-ass price.
I didn't like the impact on the surrounding areas.
I didn't like the fact that Vancouver didn't want to pay their share.
I didn't like the fact that the Rose Quarter choke point would still exist.

I love the fact that it was WA that killed the project. Now let's tear down the existing I-5 bridges, and the Glenn Jackson, and call it a day.
Vantucky doesn't want to be part of the metro area? Then let it be so.

barfo

 

[ABM]

I'm glad the CRC is dead.
I didn't like the cheap-ass ugly design.
I didn't like the anything-but-cheap-ass price.
I didn't like the impact on the surrounding areas.
I didn't like the fact that Vancouver didn't want to pay their share.
I didn't like the fact that the Rose Quarter choke point would still exist.

I love the fact that it was WA that killed the project. Now let's tear down the existing I-5 bridges, and the Glenn Jackson, and call it a day.
Vantucky doesn't want to be part of the metro area? Then let it be so.

barfo

You're proposing a bridge to nowhere?

 

[barfo]

You're proposing a bridge to nowhere?

No, we've already got 3 bridges to nowhere [well, two to nowhere, one back from nowhere]. I'm proposing to tear them down.

Singing...

He's a real nowhere Van
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans for no bridge

Doesn't have a MAX line too
Knows not where he's going to
Isn't he stuck in traffic like you and me?

Nowhere Van, please listen
You don't know what you're missing
Nowhere Van, the bridge is at your command

He's as blind as he can be
Just sees what he wants to see
Nowhere Van can you get across at all?

Nowhere Van, don't worry
Take your time, don't hurry
Leave it all till somebody else gives you a handout

Doesn't have a point of view
Knows not where he's going to
Isn't he stuck on the five like you and me?

Nowhere Van, please listen
You don't know what you're missing
Nowhere Van, the bridge is at your command

He's a real Nowhere Van
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans for no bridge
Making all his nowhere plans for no bridge
Making all his nowhere plans for no bridge