Culture, what do u think?

[deception]

there was an academic journal written over a decade ago called "clash of cvilizations" by hungington; conservative policy makers revere it. it presupposes that some civilzations are diametrically opposed, specifically the west and islamic ones. the problem with hungington's thesis is its simplicity, the world isn't absolute (BLACK and WHITE), no, its more like shades of grey. nonetheless, inspired by hungington- i decided to gauge the pro's and con's of each society. the disclaimer for the thread: is to avoid racism, cause its isn't about berating each society but identifying its markers


America, Canda and Australia (White Settler Societies)

Pro: Organizational Ability- efficient business management resides here

Con: Racism- this is a paradoxical one cause of the business friendly environment which encourages inclusiveness, although, that same trend creates "insiders" and "outsiders"

Latin America

Pro: Culture- host to the greatest diversity in language, art, and dance

Con: Too Inward- the external world doesn't matter to them culturally

West & South Africa

Pro: Hope-in spite of the con

Con: Poverty- look at the economic indicators and then think of the people

Islamic Societies (North & East Africa, Mid-East, etc)

Pro: Unshakeable Faith- in spite of the madness after 9/11 they still believe

Con: Conservatism-disregard for human rights

Hindu Societies

Pro:Spirituality- the highest number of relgions per capita reside in India

Conocility-this is a sophisticated criticism- it suggests that because of the non-violence tenet and other things, there hasn't been enough of progressive movements like in the area of labour rights

Europe

Pro:Introspection- ever been to Europe? just look at the architecture, speak to waiter at a parisian coffee shop about the human condition or visit some of their historical sites and u will learn about introspection

Con: Exclusivity- restrictive immigration polcies so there isn't much racial diversity but they aren't bigots fyi just too proud for their own good

Far East

Pro: Safety- some of the largest savings investments in the world, helps balance our consumption fetish

Con- Overworked, although, recent numbers suggest american workers work more hours per week than anyone.

 

[M Two One]

Holy jeez, the US and Canada have the worst racism? Not a chance. Try going to Italy or Spain and they still stone people for being another color. I remember when my friend and I were at a Bar?a match years ago the fans threw cell phones and batteries at the black players just for being black. Strange part is that they were actually on their own team! The problems are so severe there at the moment that it is considered a high threat.

 

[Shapecity]

One terrible aspect about racism in America though is hidden racism. If I was going to be discrimated because of my race, I'd at least want to know upfront and just not deal with the individual, than find out later on.

 

[deception]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting M Two One:</div><div class="quote_post">Holy jeez, the US and Canada have the worst racism? Not a chance. Try going to Italy or Spain and they still stone people for being another color. I remember when my friend and I were at a Bar?a match years ago the fans threw cell phones and batteries at the black players just for being black. Strange part is that they were actually on their own team! The problems are so severe there at the moment that it is considered a high threat.</div>

i know i dealt with that under european exclusivity. on the other hand- white settler societies were founded under social darwinist, racial pretext, i.e. the white man rules and all others (lower tier races) must be assimilated or exterminated. just look at what happened to our indigenous populations. u're are confusing "action" with "system".

 

[M Two One]

I'm not confusing anything bro, I've lived there for quite some time. There's more to it than just what you get at sports venues or on the streets. Paris has some of the worst hidden crime you could possibly imagine. Especially that of which involves racism. Most people come on saying they know what's what, and they don't know a thing of what goes on over there aside from what they believe or try to understand. That's cool you have your opinion, but there's a difference of visiting there or studying it and living there and having to experience any of it.

A word to the wise for those going to Switzerland too. You think the police are biased or racist in the US? You've got a lot to learn about that region. Also, yes the US, Canada, and Australia were founded under racial pretext. However, doesn't everyone know that by now?

 

[The Dream]

Racism has no boundaries....I'll comment more on it later.


EDIT

Deception some of your perceptions of different regions of the world are a little vague.....for instance South and West Africa Pros....not trying to come off as afrocentric but Africa was efficient and introspective long before Europe even came along.....and most people with good historical knowledge will tell you that.......yes there is a lot of poverty in Africa, but there are more pros (historically and now) than "hope"

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">they aren't bigots fyi just too proud for their own good
</div>

lol....there is PLENTY of racism in Europe just like any other part of the world.

 

[Trip]

Right now I'm reading a book on the history of the Chinese in America, and it's disgusting how racist that the whole of North America once was. Is it that much now? No, but you can still feel some division between people, but it's much more subtle and hidden racism.

 

[Karma]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">Right now I'm reading a book on the history of the Chinese in America, and it's disgusting how racist that the whole of North America once was. Is it that much now? No, but you can still feel some division between people, but it's much more subtle and hidden racism.</div>

There is always going to be a sense of consenus judging and racism in the world, no matter what year we are in. For every open-minded person, there still remains a close-minded one who won't agree that a certain race isn't a certain way. Yes, the racism nowadays is definetly more subtle then before and people have definetly devloped more acceptance for other races. I'm beyond glad to live in the GTA....if you see my school it's full of every color you can think of, and people from every country you can imagine. I love that, and I couldn't imagine my world otherwise.

 

[Laker_fan]

In England, it depends where you live. I think it's like this all around the world but we basically have areas that are either White, Black or Asian(Indian/Pakistani). The interesting thing is that the White parts of the country are where you'll find most racism.

 

[Chutney]

^ And you also have parties like the BNP that openly run on racist platforms.

I think you can extrapolate the con for Africa. The truly tragic thing about that continent is that it no longer matters in the world economy and the world's poorest region is basically left to rebuild itself.

 

[deception]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post">Racism has no boundaries....I'll comment more on it later.


EDIT

Deception some of your perceptions of different regions of the world are a little vague.....for instance South and West Africa Pros....not trying to come off as afrocentric but Africa was efficient and introspective long before Europe even came along.....and most people with good historical knowledge will tell you that.......yes there is a lot of poverty in Africa, but there are more pros (historically and now) than "hope"



lol....there is PLENTY of racism in Europe just like any other part of the world.</div>

i made a comment to the other poster about distinguishing between "action" and "systems". action is in tandem with experience, whereas systems are inspired by history and rooted in power. european nations aren't racist cause they don't have a system in place to systematically discriminate against the other, whereas the white settler societies have extricated indigenous populations, denied them of their treaty rights and the US even forcibly settled africans as their slaves. and yes, the europeans were involved in the slave trade but they were middle men at best and that was only for a short while.

and about africa- im not slagging africa as much as i'm slagging the rest of the world. u made a point about civlization somewhere in there- and u are right when it comes to ethiopia where the Axumite kingdom was the thought to be the equal of the roman civilization. however, our discussion is relegated to the present tense.

 

[M Two One]

Believe what you want, guy.

 

[Laker_fan]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post"> ^ And you also have parties like the BNP that openly run on racist platforms.
I think you can extrapolate the con for Africa. The truly tragic thing about that continent is that it no longer matters in the world economy and the world's poorest region is basically left to rebuild itself.</div>

Yeh, we basically got Nazi's to vote for when voting for seats in the elections. Hell, if they got enough votes, one of them could be a prime minister one day. There's areas I've been to where you will see graffiti spray-painted everywhere with the symbol NF(National Front Supremacist group). Obviously I don't live in America but I'm guessing Europe is 100 times more racist than America.

 

[Chutney]

No doubt. I have a uncle who lives in Southall and writes for a magazine called Searchlight, which tracks racial and cultural issues throughout Europe. Every time he comes over, he's got tonnes of stories about racists incidents that you wouldn't even believe could still happen.

 

[Laker_fan]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">No doubt. I have a uncle who lives in Southall and writes for a magazine called Searchlight, which tracks racial and cultural issues throughout Europe. Every time he comes over, he's got tonnes of stories about racists incidents that you wouldn't even believe could still happen.</div>

I kind of live near Southall(35 minutes drive). If there's stories about Southall having racial issues it would be mad. The reason I say this is because Southall has a HUGE Sikh community so I wouldn't have thought there would be much racism towards non-white people in that area. Although I wouldn't be suprised if there were stories in Southall. As you said around Europe, it's more believable.

Also, I may have come across slightly incorrect. I made it seem as if white people weren't discriminated against. Of course they are in non-white areas but to an extremely small percent.

 

[Chutney]

No, not necessarily in Southall. Most of those stories come from trips he's taken to Eastern European countries.

 

[The Dream]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">i made a comment to the other poster about distinguishing between "action" and "systems". action is in tandem with experience, whereas systems are inspired by history and rooted in power. european nations aren't racist cause they don't have a system in place to systematically discriminate against the other, whereas the white settler societies have extricated indigenous populations, denied them of their treaty rights and the US even forcibly settled africans as their slaves. and yes, the europeans were involved in the slave trade but they were middle men at best and that was only for a short while.
</div>

Wrong...I'm at work....but read this

http://www.osi.hu/Resources/Racism.pdf#sea...an%20countries'

and tell me that there isn't sytematic racism in Europe.......historically speaking wherever there are racist "actions" it's because of a racist "system" that is already in place....systematic racism can come in religion, politics, education, media, etc....and it is a FACT that it does exist in Europe...I've talked to too many people, read to many articles, and seen too many reports on systematic racism in Europe.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">and about africa- im not slagging africa as much as i'm slagging the rest of the world. u made a point about civlization somewhere in there- and u are right when it comes to ethiopia where the Axumite kingdom was the thought to be the equal of the roman civilization. however, our discussion is relegated to the present tense.</div>

Well "presently" speaking there are more pros than just "hope" ....there are various forms of culture, language, art, etc. like any other region you gave credit to

 

[deception]

i invite any one of u to refute my list with your own.

 

[Chutney]

The problem I have with that list, and the reason why I didn't try to revise it, is that it's inherantly biased. You're rating/judging other cultures based on values from your own culture. For example, you state docility as a con of Hindu societies, but members of that culture might call it humility/faithfulness, and wouldn't view it in a negative light, like you did. Also, there's a lot of generalizing with what counts as a distinct culture, specific attributes, etc. I just don't think it's possible to make an unbiased list if, as that report says, these civilizations are diametrically opposed.

 

[M Two One]

Told ya', bro. Don't comment on Europe if you don't know what actually goes on there like those that have actually lived or still do.

 

[deception]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">The problem I have with that list, and the reason why I didn't try to revise it, is that it's inherantly biased. You're rating/judging other cultures based on values from your own culture. For example, you state docility as a con of Hindu societies, but members of that culture might call it humility/faithfulness, and wouldn't view it in a negative light, like you did. Also, there's a lot of generalizing with what counts as a distinct culture, specific attributes, etc. I just don't think it's possible to make an unbiased list if, as that report says, these civilizations are diametrically opposed.</div>

no my list is in opposition to hungington's. hungington's believes the west should devour the rest, he's kinda in the mold of a japanese-american scholar named francis fakuyama who referred to the west (neo-liberalism) as the the "end of history", i.e. america is the apogee of civilization. i don't make those distinctions, all i said about our society in fact is that we're good at business and nations of bigots. and its funny u mention hindu societies- cause i'm hindu and have given the hindu category lots of thought. and fyi- the docility thing is a generic, academic criticism cause u can argue that same docility has enabled india to experience those tremendous growth rates that economists marvel at, while the mid-east hasn't.

again i implore u all to make your own lists to make sense of this better