Defense

[Rastapopoulos]

It just seems to me that we're not building a roster that can be anything other than sub-average defensively. Look at our "keepers":

Damian: a poor defender at best, according to one writer, "no-defense player of the year"
CJ: short and not particularly athletic for his position. A smaller Brandon Roy, who was also a poor defender.
Leonard: he tries, bless him.

I honestly don't know if we're keeping any of these players, but:
Plumlee: I dunno, but let's just say he doesn't have an elite reputation
Henderson: again, I don't know, but I've never heard him described as strong defensively
Vonleh: hasn't had the minutes to shown anything either offensively or defensively. Bad sign: one knock on him has been BBall IQ, and good defense requires smarts.

Our strongest defenders have been:
Wes: coming back from an injury, and probably not to us
RoLo: Plumlee's acquisition and the interest in Monroe doesn't make it look like he's in our plans
Batum: his defense has suffered the past couple of years because of all the minutes and miles, but he was still there to be put on the PG when Lillard was getting burned too much.

So: if Monroe is our big acquisition, and CJ is stepping into our starting SG spot, then we have poor perimeter defense and no shot blocking. Why isn't this a concern?

Oh, and our rookies:
Pat C.: supposedly slow-footed on D. Asked to defend PFs in college, which is nice, but suggests he can't be trusted on the perimeter, even in college
Dani Diez: if you think Pat C. has slow feet...

It just seems like we're stocking up on spot shooters and role players, none of whom has defense as anything like a strength. It's not looking good. It's all very well to have a good offensive team, but if you can't stop ANYbody, then no lead is safe and we're going to get blown out depressingly regularly.

 

[TBpup]

Henderson is a solid defender but your point is well taken. Then again, look at their coach. He is an offensive-first minded head coach and the team takes on the identity of the head man. Look at wherever Thibs goes....tough minded, defensive oriented.

 

[magnifier661]

It just seems to me that we're not building a roster that can be anything other than sub-average defensively. Look at our "keepers":

Damian: a poor defender at best
CJ: short and not particularly athletic for his position. A smaller Brandon Roy, who was also a poor defender.
Leonard: he tries, bless him.

I honestly don't know if we're keeping any of these players, but:
Plumlee: I dunno, but let's just say he doesn't have an elite reputation
Henderson: again, I don't know, but I've never heard him described as strong defensively
Vonleh: hasn't had the minutes to shown anyhing either offensively or defensively. Bad sign: one knock on him has been BBall IQ, and good defense requires smarts.

Our strongest defenders have been:
Wes: coming back from an injury, and probably not to us
RoLo: Plumlee's acquisition and the interest in Monroe doesn't make it look like he's in our plans
Batum: his defense has suffered the past couple of years because of all the minutes and miles, but he was still there to be put on the PG when Lillard was getting burned too much.

So: if Monroe is our big acquisition, and CJ is stepping into our starting SG spot, then we have poor perimeter defense and no shot blocking. Why isn't this a concern?

Oh, and our rookies:
Pat C.: supposedly slow-footed on D. Asked to defend PFs in college, which is nice, but suggests he can't be trusted on the perimeter, even in college
Dani Diez: if you think Pat C. has slow feet...

It just seems like we're stocking up on spot shooters and role players, none of whom has defense as anything like a strength. It's not looking good. It's all very well to have a good offensive team, but if you can't stop ANYbody, then no lead is safe and we're going to get blown out depressingly regularly.

Anderson is considered a very good defender. Remember that Charlotte was one of the league leaders before everything went to shit.

I also think it's weird that you consider CJ is a poor defender. I remember him doing a damn good job, especially recovering to alter shots, steals and blocking shots. He's actually a decent rebounder for his size.

I definitely agree that Dame is still a poor defender, but I believe he's just poor at the pick and roll defense. If you bring in a solid Pick and Roll defensive big, then I don't expect teams to take as much advantage of this.

Von and Plume won't be a big factor IMO. I think Plume will be a capable defender and Von just not getting the burn (being wet behind the ears) to make a difference.

But lets let this play out first shall we? As Olshey said, let me do what I plan first before you jump to conclusions. Then you can meltdown all summer!

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Look at wherever Thibs goes....tough minded, defensive oriented.

Hey, we were top 3 defensively at one point last year. And personnel matters: the Spurs had to change from an elite defensive squad as their personnel aged. (They became a super-elite offensive squad, something that I doubt is within our reach.)

 

[TBpup]

Hey, we were top 3 defensively at one point last year. And personnel matters: the Spurs had to change from an elite defensive squad as their personnel aged. (They became a super-elite offensive squad, something that I doubt is within our reach.)

We were at one point after we had gone through the majority of our games with the Eastern conference. I don't think anyone looking with the simple 'eyeball' test would think were were really a top-3 defense and that played out as the schedule got tougher and the inevitable injuries set in. Every team gets them, we just got almost all of ours in the 2nd half of the season.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I got all excited for about 5 minutes when we drafted RHJ because I thought maybe the front office cared about defense after all! But we all know how that ended.

 

[magnifier661]

We were at one point after we had gone through the majority of our games with the Eastern conference. I don't think anyone looking with the simple 'eyeball' test would think were were really a top-3 defense and that played out as the schedule got tougher and the inevitable injuries set in. Every team gets them, we just got almost all of ours in the 2nd half of the season.

To be honest, we were third best until Lopez went down. We may have played more Eastern Conference teams, but so did Houston and GS. I think they actually played more.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

We were at one point after we had gone through the majority of our games with the Eastern conference. I don't think anyone looking with the simple 'eyeball' test would think were were really a top-3 defense and that played out as the schedule got tougher and the inevitable injuries set in. Every team gets them, we just got almost all of ours in the 2nd half of the season.

So, basically you're saying we were bad LAST year when we still had some solid defensive players. Excited for this year?

 

[magnifier661]

I got all excited for about 5 minutes when we drafted RHJ because I thought maybe the front office cared about defense after all! But we all know how that ended.

Dude your meltdown is at epic proportions man! The trade of RHJ shows me that Portland hasn't conceded a "rebuild". RHJ is a rookie, so that "so called eye for defense" would be a 3 year down the road type move.

 

[illmatic99]

Aren't we also linked to Aminu and Green? Two very solid defenders.

And I'm guessing we are also going to touch base with Tyson Chandler if LA re-signs.

A starting lineup of Dame/Green/Aminu/LA/Chandler is pretty solid defensively.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

We do have big time interest in Aminu and he would have been our best Defender last year, yes over Wes even (and most likely especially next year if we get him).

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Aren't we also linked to Aminu and Green? Two very solid defenders.
And I'm guessing we are also going to touch base with Tyson Chandler if LA re-signs.
A starting lineup of Dame/Green/Aminu/LA/Chandler is pretty solid defensively.

I stop bitching for at least a whole day if we ended up with that. In fact, I might do a little happy dance.

...but it wouldn't be long before I started complaining about the lack of ball-handling and court-vision on the roster.

 

[ThugginPaulyGAllen]

Anderson is considered a very good defender. Remember that Charlotte was one of the league leaders before everything went to shit.

I also think it's weird that you consider CJ is a poor defender. I remember him doing a damn good job, especially recovering to alter shots, steals and blocking shots. He's actually a decent rebounder for his size.

I definitely agree that Dame is still a poor defender, but I believe he's just poor at the pick and roll defense. If you bring in a solid Pick and Roll defensive big, then I don't expect teams to take as much advantage of this.

Von and Plume won't be a big factor IMO. I think Plume will be a capable defender and Von just not getting the burn (being wet behind the ears) to make a difference.

But lets let this play out first shall we? As Olshey said, let me do what I plan first before you jump to conclusions. Then you can meltdown all summer!

Good thing this is exactly what Monroe is - except - his rim protection is just pitiful. But, on the bright side, he doesn't let PG's get to the rim. Also, if you believe Mark Jackson...rim protection is overrated if they can't get to the rim because of GREAT pick and roll defense and forcing other things to happen. The other problem is, we have no clue what our team will look like next year, as you noted. If we got Aminu, Danny Green - suddenly, we look a lot better defensively than before.

http://www.mercurynews.com/warriors/ci_27294227/mark-jackson-talks-warriors-espn (Not exactly agreeing with his full premise, but I think rim protection is beingoverrated by some. There are other factors that are significant defensively. Yeah it'll suck to not have a shot blocker, but it'll also be nice to have an offensive threat at center that can't just be completely ignored.)

 

[magnifier661]

Good thing this is exactly what Monroe is - except - his rim protection is just pitiful. But, on the bright side, he doesn't let PG's get to the rim. Also, if you believe Mark Jackson...rim protection is overrated if they can't get to the rim because of GREAT pick and roll defense and forcing other things to happen. The other problem is, we have no clue what our team will look like next year, as you noted. If we got Aminu, Danny Green - suddenly, we look a lot better defensively than before.

http://www.mercurynews.com/warriors/ci_27294227/mark-jackson-talks-warriors-espn (Not exactly agreeing with his full premise, but I think rim protection is beingoverrated by some. There are other factors that are significant defensively. Yeah it'll suck to not have a shot blocker, but it'll also be nice to have an offensive threat at center that can't just be completely ignored.)

I think having that rim protector is actually extremely important if I was to build a team. I think our wings would be able to gamble a bit more for steals, knowing that if they get beat, a shot blocker will shut down their attempt at the rim.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

I know he isn't a classic rim protector in the normal mode but Plumlee does block his fair share of shots per minute I believe.

 

[Draco]

I stop bitching for at least a whole day if we ended up with that. In fact, I might do a little happy dance.

...but it wouldn't be long before I started complaining about the lack of ball-handling and court-vision on the roster.

Yes there will always be something for you to complain about. There are no perfect players they all have faults. The trick is having the right mix of players; and enough talent; to where their faults can't be exposed more than their strengths.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I could be off, but I'm under the impression that Stotts' D schemes intentionally do not try for blocks and steals. Will he change if we get a player whose length allows him to play the passing lanes, or one who can block anything near the paint?

 

[magnifier661]

I could be off, but I'm under the impression that Stotts' D schemes intentionally do not try for blocks and steals. Will he change if we get a player whose length allows him to play the passing lanes, or one who can block anything near the paint?

If he gets Aminu, Hibbert and Green; I would hope so! The length Aldridge, Hibbert, Aminu and Green would have would be comparable to the 2000 Blazers. It would be a bitch to pass anything through our long arms.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

step 1) Remove all large contracts from the team, while getting young "high upside" players.
step 2) Get Aldridge to sign
step 3) spend $$ to make the pieces fit.

step 1) check
we haven't gotten to step 2 yet, and many are bitching that we're not done with step 3! Give it some time. The good news is that summer league will come soon and be a pleasant distractor.

 

[riverman]

Before the injury problem we were on track to be a great defensive team. Stotts doesn't care for offensive rebounds or steals because he wants to get back in transition. It's a trade off but makes a bit of sense. Again as I've stated, defense is a collective skill and that's all on the coaching staff. Hire Thibbs and let him have those duties so Stotts can concentrate on offensive plays

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Yes there will always be something for you to complain about.

There's always your next post, for example.

There are no perfect players they all have faults.

Let me pause to absorb this massive shock to my mental furniture. No, I can't do it. I can't accept it.

The trick is having the right mix of players; and enough talent; to where their faults can't be exposed more than their strengths.

Amazingly enough, it's helpful to have at least a couple of players who can play defense to make up for the flaws of those who can't. Unless you're suggesting we can just sit one of our less useful player on the basket to prevent the other team's ball going through.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

step 1) Remove all large contracts from the team, while getting young "high upside" players.
step 2) Get Aldridge to sign
step 3) spend $$ to make the pieces fit.

step 1) check
we haven't gotten to step 2 yet, and many are bitching that we're not done with step 3!

I don't think it's as simple as 1-2-3 (because what ever is). You're not going to accomplish step 2 unless you can convince Aldridge that we're not going to be shit. If all he has to look at is the decimated roster we now have, you better just hope he's all about the money. So you need to have some indication that there are players who will agree to come here that will work with him. Now, it's possible that Olshey actually has some fiendish plan that will bring LeBron and Marc Gasol here and can put that to Aldridge and we're going to be an unstoppable dynasty. God I hope so. I will kiss Neil Olshey's feet if that happens. But if Monroe is really our major target, then we're screwed: mediocrity here we come.

Give it some time. The good news is that summer league will come soon and be a pleasant distractor.

I'll certainly watch the games, but if RHJ is killing it for the Nets, it will not improve my mood.

 

[Draco]

I could be off, but I'm under the impression that Stotts' D schemes intentionally do not try for blocks and steals. Will he change if we get a player whose length allows him to play the passing lanes, or one who can block anything near the paint?

Yeah I think he is open to a change depending on the core rotational personal. When we had JJ Hickson we had bigs jumping pick and rolls. Then we added Rolo and changed to have the guard fight through the screen but bigs sag back. Once Neil is done assembling the roster I believe Stotts will be open any system that best fits the roster.

 

[magnifier661]

I don't think it's as simple as 1-2-3 (because what ever is). You're not going to accomplish step 2 unless you can convince Aldridge that we're not going to be shit. If all he has to look at is the decimated roster we now have, you better just hope he's all about the money. So you need to have some indication that there are players who will agree to come here that will work with him. Now, it's possible that Olshey actually has some fiendish plan that will bring LeBron and Marc Gasol here and can put that to Aldridge and we're going to be an unstoppable dynasty. God I hope so. I will kiss Neil Olshey's feet if that happens. But if Monroe is really our major target, then we're screwed: mediocrity here we come.



I'll certainly watch the games, but if RHJ is killing it for the Nets, it will not improve my mood.

But you have clearly made your comments based on partial plans. And what happens if Aldridge is actually in communication with what's going on, which seems like is happening. I don't think Olshey makes the past moves without Aldridge being fine with the progress. Lets let this thing finish before we throw our GM under the bus

 

[KeepOnRollin]

step 1) Remove all large contracts from the team, while getting young "high upside" players.
step 2) Get Aldridge to sign
step 3) spend $$ to make the pieces fit.

step 1) check
we haven't gotten to step 2 yet, and many are bitching that we're not done with step 3! Give it some time. The good news is that summer league will come soon and be a pleasant distractor.

I think LMA is going to require us to do step 3 before he will do step 2. So essentially those have to be reversed.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

I'll certainly watch the games, but if RHJ is killing it for the Nets, it will not improve my mood.

Wasn't Quintel Woods MVP of Summer League one year?

 

[DryHeat]

Its just Pat...

 

[BBert]

But lets let this play out first shall we? As Olshey said, let me do what I plan first before you jump to conclusions. Then you can meltdown all summer!

This

 

[ThugginPaulyGAllen]

I think having that rim protector is actually extremely important if I was to build a team. I think our wings would be able to gamble a bit more for steals, knowing that if they get beat, a shot blocker will shut down their attempt at the rim.

How many of the last.. 10 championship teams had an elite rim protector playing 30+mpg?

2? The 07 Spurs and '11 Mavs?

Don't give me bogut either cuz his ass got benched. Don't give me the Celtics either because there defense was predicated on KG LOCKING down the pick n roll, additionally, the PNR is the most frequently used play..stop or slow that and you win games. That's what the Celtics defense was predicated on.

Don't get beat on the outside and you don't need someone to clean up your mistakes.. I'll concede we don't have the wing defenders for that..yet.. but rim protection is becoming less important because the evolution of the game.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

How many of the last.. 10 championship teams had an elite rim protector playing 30+mpg?
...
Don't give me bogut either cuz that would disprove my point

Fixed it for you.