Derek Stepan

[chuckd3534]

Let's give this guy some credit. He has been great for us this season. This team has been so much better when he has been on the ice. The games he misses we look like a totally different team. He has played like a true # 1 C. And now that Staal is done Stepan should be the next focus. We need to get him locked up long term.

He needs to continue to play this way for a full season, not just 29 games, but he looks great. Making plays all over the ice. 29 points in 29 games. A +11. A leader on the team.

We need to get his deal done. Step and Zucc are the guys I want back. Hags is the odd man out IMO unless he takes a really team friendly deal. And MSL needs to be in the low to mid 3's if he wants to stay a Ranger.

To me Hank, Stepan, Nash, and McD are the players we can least afford to lose. All wrapped up long term except Stepan. Now it is time to get his deal done.

 

[Ranger71]

He made some great passes last night i'll give him that.

 

[kreidertime]

I'm not tied to Zucc at all. He's not a good finisher. He doesn't play center being a top faceoff guy. He's a tiny winger. He's had an average year at best. If you told me they could deal Zucc for Vermette and a 3rd, Hagelin for King and a second, I'd do both of those deals in a second.

King-Brassard-Nash
Kreider-Stepan-St. Louis
Hayes-Vermette-Miller
Stempniak-Moore-Fast

 

[chuckd3534]

I am a Zucc fan I admit that. Clearly he hasn't had the first 1/2 he has wanted. On pace for 15 goals and 40 + points, which is not like last year (19 G 59 P). In theory that should make it easier to resign him this summer. But there is a lot of season and the playoffs left, so who knows what will happen.

My thinking is a contract with a cap hit in the 4's seems fair for Zucc, low to mid 4's. I don't see him getting into the 5's unless he has a big 2nd half and/or playoff run.

I do think he is an important part of the team though. He was on maybe our best and most consistent line last season. He is on our best line this season. He was a + 11 last season, he is a + 9 right now, two years ago he was a + 10 in 15 games. So he plays both ends of the ice.

I don't want to lose him. We disagree on that. I think he is very important for the team. Unless he gets crazy and wants some huge deal worth 5 mill + per season, I would bring him back for 4 or 5 years and be happy about it.

 

[chuckd3534]

Vermette we agree on. I would like to keep Hags though and add Vermette. Having those two on the 3rd line would be a nice thing. If we could deal Hags for some top 9 size I would do that, but outside of that I wouldn't mind a 3rd line of Vermette with Hags and Hayes.

Remember Hags is a very good on the PK and he always plays well in the playoffs (plus his speed is what our team is all about...speed). That's why I think it is unlikely we deal him unless it is a clear HR deal for us.

 

[kreidertime]

No interest in paying Zucc. Rather bring back MSL, trade Zucc for a pick and rental player. Or a pick and very good forward prospect with size. Reality is that Fast can probably replace a lot of what Hagelin brings. Duclair can replace Zucc. Buchnevich can replace Stempniak. Team is younger, cheaper, faster with those guys. Whether they are better depends on how those players develop.

 

[Ranger71]

Whether it happens at the deadline they need to balance out things getting less small and soft going into next year. You can see that when teams put heavy pressure on and pin them in the zone, especially late in games.

 

[chuckd3534]

Duclair cannot replace Zucc and Hags.

Like I said, we disagree on Zucc. He is a positive player that always seems to be on our best line, I just don't think that is a coincidence. I would not walk from him unless he wants a huge deal for some odd reason.

I do think Duclair could replace Hags though, but he obviously won't be the PK guy Hags is. Better on O worse on D.

I wouldn't be surprised if next season both Miller and Duclair have strong chances to play in the top 9.

I think we need size for the 3rd line in the form of a tough gritty vet. Kreider has size on his line. Nash has size on his line. The 3rd line lacks size and grit (Hayes is a rookie and doesn't know how to really use his size right now). That is why I would like to add some size at the trade DL. But at this point I think a Vermette type player would be more important.

Looking forward, Miller will add size to the top 9, so that will help. But if Miller and Duclair get top 9 shots, someone would have to go. Hags or Zucc or MSL.

I personally don't see us dealing any of those guys in season unless we start to struggle and we need a change and jumpstart. But it does make you wonder what happens next season. If MSL doesn't take a deal in the 3's I wouldn't bring him back. If Zucc gets crazy and wants 5 +...pass. And if Hags asks for more than upper 2's/low 3's I pass on him as well (he is an RFA so we have some control).

You have to figure Stepan gets his long term 6 mill per cap hit deal, so that is 3 mill right there. Staal is also going up almost 3 mill. So that is a 6 mill jump right from the start. MSL needs to come down 2 mill IMO. Cam gets a bump up next season. Miller may as well. That's why the truth is Hags might have to go. That would clear a path for Duclair and Miller in the top 9. Adds speed back with Duclair and size with Miller. When you look at the cap I think Hags could be the odd man out, Hags or MSL unless he takes at least a 2 mill cap hit decrease. I would try and get Zucc back with maybe a 500 K to 750 K per raise. If he wants more than 4.5 per tops I would have to say no to him as well.

 

[kreidertime]

Duclair can easily replace Hagelin and Zucc because he's a completely superior talent. Hagelin has almost no offensive hockey sense and he can't finish. Zucc has below average finishing skills. Hagelin is nothing more than a role player. Zucc is turning into a 5'7 role player. If you are going to be 5'7 and average 40 points a season, you really aren't that valuable.

 

[chuckd3534]

I don't think one Duclair can replace BOTH Hags and Zucc in the top 9. Agree to disagree on that.

 

[kreidertime]

Hagelin to me is no longer a top 9 guy. He's a 4th line player. He never has chemistry with other forwards. He can't finish. Almost half his goals are empty netters. I'd rather see Fast on the third line and Hagelin on the 4th line at this point.

 

[chuckd3534]

I don't agree with that. He is a 15-17 goal guy. That is not a 4th line guy. I think Hags is firmly a 3rd line guy, with a lot of speed, who can be a top PK forward, who has played well in the playoffs. There is use for that guy. The issue is the numbers game may dictate he is gone ths summer.

I do think either Hags or MSL are gone, unless they don't view Miller and Duclair ready for the top 9.

Fast to me is a clear 4th line guy right now, which is fine, there is use in that as well. 4th line guys who can score 8-10 or so goals. Also can kill penalties. Use for sure.

 

[Ranger71]

I don't see MSL accepting 3m vs 5m when he's still putting up 20+g, but maybe they can get him for 4 which might be ok one more year.

 

[theProdigy223]

I still think St. Louis is going to take a cut, and I see it being 3m for 2 years. He asked for a trade here, and only here, because this is where he wants to finish his career with his family right next door. But not only that, the guy wants to win. He's a competitor through and through. He knows the situation we're in with the cap and he's had a very long career. I hope I'm not just being naive here, but I can see him doing 2 years, 3m per

As for Zucc, dump I think you are really undervaluing him. He brings energy. He is extremely creative with the puck. He can play on both special teams units. Yes he might not be the finisher we want, but he's not incompetent in that area. I bring him back for sure. He's more than a role player. And like Chuck said, our two best lines last year featured Zucc. Kreider-Stepan-Zucc while Nash was out, then Pouliot-Brassard-Zucc. Who's the common denominator there? Gotta keep him , hopefully in the low 4's.

I posted a thread on Hagelin a month ago that he's the odd man out. I love his speed and I love his PK ability, but he's useless at even strength and has seemed to regress this year. I'd hold him through the playoffs because as has been said, he's a key playoff guy. Then trade his rights in the offseason because he isn't worth the raise.

Stepan, Staal, Zucc, and MSL all back. Trade Hagelin and Moore's rights, and play Duclair and Allen in their places. That's how I'd shake things out.

Note sure what Vermette is going to cost for this year. You'd have to think at least a pick or a prospect. At this point, aside from Duclair, Buch and Skjei, I dont see any untouchables. This is the year, let's make it happen Glen.

 

[chuckd3534]

We pretty much agree across the board Prod. I think MSL accepts 3 to low 3's per year also. Most likely for 2 years. We agree.

We agree on Zucc as well. I can see low 4's per on a 3 or 4 or 5 year deal. Seems fair.

Also agree on Hags as we have said. Numbers game looks like odd man out. Would only deal him in season for a HR deal. Otherwise play it out, he is a good playoff guy, and then handle it this summer with a flip prior to the draft.

And lastly, the time is now. This season and next season. We only have a few guys that are no deal, Miller included in that group unless we get a top guy right now as I mentioned in the other thread. Go get it done Sather. At the very least bring in a Vermette type guy. And if we can do more than just that, get it done. We need to strike now. This better not be the 2012 trade DL all over again...epic fail from Sather.

 

[NYR31]

I agree w/ Dump on Zucc...never been a big fan of his and as a diminutive 40pt guy we're better off putting those resources in someone else who can bring in much needed size.