"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

[Minstrel]

A federal court in Riverside, California, ruled Thursday that the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy -- which bars gay men and lesbians from serving openly -- is unconstitutional.

"Plaintiff has demonstrated it is entitled to the relief sought on behalf of its members, a judicial declaration that the don't ask, don't tell act violates the Fifth and First Amendments, and a permanent injunction barring its enforcement," concluded U.S. District Judge Virginia Phillips, a 1999 Clinton appointee.

The 85-page ruling came in a case filed by the group Log Cabin Republicans against the government and Secretary of Defense Robert M. Gates.

"The act discriminates based on the content of the speech being regulated," Phillips wrote. "It distinguishes between speech regarding sexual orientation, and inevitably, family relationships and daily activities, by and about gay and lesbian servicemembers, which is banned, and speech on those subjects by and about heterosexual servicemembers, which is permitted."

But, she noted, "the sweeping reach of the restrictions on speech in the don't ask, don't tell act is far broader than is reasonably necessary to protect the substantial government interest at stake here."

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/09/09/dont.ask.dont.tell/

 

[chris_in_pdx]

The Log Cabin Republicans are scorned and laughed at by their own party, although they absolutely did the right (pun not intended) thing. I can't wait to hear Glen Beck and Ann Coulter scream that the LCR's are just a bunch of "Lib ***s in GOP Suits".

 

[The Sebastian Express]

I was very happy to see this.

 

[BrianFromWA]

why?

 

[The Sebastian Express]

why?

Because homosexuals should have the same rights to express their love for their partner and/or family openly and without fear that their heterosexual counterparts do. They should be able to mention having a partner of the same sex casually during conversation if asked and not have to lie about it or stumble over a mishmash of words that neither confirm nor deny. They should get the same respect for serving their country as their heterosexual colleagues.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Fair enough.

For the lawyer-types out there, can someone explain why the previous 5 cases involving DADT were upheld, but now it's considered unconstitutional?

 

[BrianFromWA]

The Log Cabin Republicans are scorned and laughed at by their own party, although they absolutely did the right (pun not intended) thing. I can't wait to hear Glen Beck and Ann Coulter scream that the LCR's are just a bunch of "Lib ***s in GOP Suits".

I generally don't think that Ann Coulter and Glenn Beck are on the same page. Whenever I've heard him he's talking about history of the US and his faith...when I've heard her she's calling Democrats 5th-grade names.

 

[Natebishop3]

Because homosexuals should have the same rights to express their love for their partner and/or family openly and without fear that their heterosexual counterparts do. They should be able to mention having a partner of the same sex casually during conversation if asked and not have to lie about it or stumble over a mishmash of words that neither confirm nor deny. They should get the same respect for serving their country as their heterosexual colleagues.

I believe that gay men and women should have equal rights, whether it's marriage, serving their country, etc, but it really opens up a can of worms with the military. Having spent time in the Navy, I can tell you that openly gay men and women would open the door to drastic changes in the way the military does things. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe that's where "don't ask, don't tell" came into play. Rather than change quarters, showers, etc, the military would rather just ignore the issue. Saves time and money, but forces people to live in the closet.

 

[chris_in_pdx]

Having spent time in the Navy, I can tell you that openly gay men and women would open the door to drastic changes in the way the military does things.

Why? Because the military is full of homophobes?

 

[MARIS61]

I believe that gay men and women should have equal rights, whether it's marriage, serving their country, etc, but it really opens up a can of worms with the military. Having spent time in the Navy, I can tell you that openly gay men and women would open the door to drastic changes in the way the military does things. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe that's where "don't ask, don't tell" came into play. Rather than change quarters, showers, etc, the military would rather just ignore the issue. Saves time and money, but forces people to live in the closet.

I don't see the problem or expense. Still need the same amount of everything, just 5 new sets of signs for the doors, (Lesbians) (Homosexuals) (male/female transgenders) (female/male transgenders) ( transvestites/female impersonators).

Personally I think showering with a bunch of your own sex all the time is an indication of strong gay urges. I'd be much more comfy showering with women.

 

[Natebishop3]

Why? Because the military is full of homophobes?

Because the military would have to provide accommodations for gay and straight men, as well as gay and straight women. They can't force people to pretend to be something, just as much as they can't force people to shower or dress with people who may or may not find them attractive. That's their right, just as much as it's the right for gay people to be there.

 

[Natebishop3]

Or, I guess you could just have everyone shower together... men, women, straight, gay, doesn't matter..... everyone showering together. Nakedness id beautiful. Although I must warn the ladies, the mens room tends to be much less plush than the ladies, so I guess we would be moving up in the world.

 

[MARIS61]

They can't ... force people to shower or dress with people who may or may not find them attractive.

That is unpreventable by any measure, except providing private showers for every soldier.

 

[Denny Crane]

I heard the judge may not have the authority to overturn DADT.

I have zero problem with gays serving in the military and the rule should be thrown out, whether by congressional action or by the military itself.

I disagree with NB3. The military has to make no additional accommodations for anyone. Gays are everywhere in society and there's no additional accommodations required for them in any of those situations.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Dick Army!

 

[bodyman5001]

I don't see the problem or expense. Still need the same amount of everything, just 5 new sets of signs for the doors, (Lesbians) (Homosexuals) (male/female transgenders) (female/male transgenders) ( transvestites/female impersonators).

Personally I think showering with a bunch of your own sex all the time is an indication of strong gay urges. I'd be much more comfy showering with women.

hahahahaha ahahahaha hardee har har.

If I just wanted to take a shower and had to be forced to do so in a large area with other adults I would never be comfortable showering with a bunch of women. If they were attractive, I would want to jump all of them. If they were old and ugly I would be VERY uncomfortable. Either way, it wouldn't be comfortable.

On the other hand, if there are guys around you can talk about sports and cars and such to distract you from the sausage fest going on around you.

So, I would PREFER to shower with a bunch of attractive women. Just don't look down on me if I go to jail for the things I would do.

 

[Natebishop3]

hahahahaha ahahahaha hardee har har.

If I just wanted to take a shower and had to be forced to do so in a large area with other adults I would never be comfortable showering with a bunch of women. If they were attractive, I would want to jump all of them. If they were old and ugly I would be VERY uncomfortable. Either way, it wouldn't be comfortable.

On the other hand, if there are guys around you can talk about sports and cars and such to distract you from the sausage fest going on around you.

So, I would PREFER to shower with a bunch of attractive women. Just don't look down on me if I go to jail for the things I would do.

We'll see how comfortable maris is showering around women when they're all pointing and laughing at his saggy old man balls.

 

[julius]

We'll see how comfortable maris is showering around women when they're all pointing and laughing at his saggy old man balls.

How, or better yet, why do you know he has saggy old man balls?

 

[Natebishop3]

How, or better yet, why do you know he has saggy old man balls?

Because saggy old man balls are an eventuality for us all..... and Maris is old, ergo one can only come to the assumption that he has saggy old man balls.

 

[MARIS61]

It's my record-holding bat that attracts all the attention.

 

[TomBoerwinkle#1]

From what I understand this site used to have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy and Denny and MikeDc told and the world didn't come to an end. We love our gay admins and accept them for who they are.

 

[julius]

Because saggy old man balls are an eventuality for us all..... and Maris is old, ergo one can only come to the assumption that he has saggy old man balls.

Why do you spend any time looking at saggy old man balls to know this?

 

[MARIS61]

From what I understand this site used to have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy and Denny and MikeDc told and the world didn't come to an end. We love our gay admins and accept them for who they are.

But do you shower with them?

 

[LameR]

[waits for crandc]

 

[Natebishop3]

Why do you spend any time looking at saggy old man balls to know this?

You were funnier when you had the shamwow avatar. After you changed, you lost your edge.

 

[bodyman5001]

It's my record-holding bat that attracts all the attention.

I doubt yours is a real record, they have to make them smaller than 4.5 inches

 

[bodyman5001]

Oh by the way, that is a cake pan mold or something. Didn't feel like google searching for a real tiny bat all day.

 

[crandc]

Wait no more, LameR.

Gay men and lesbians have served in the military for decades. Hell, for millennia, if you count the "limp wristed" Spartans and Romans. People like Lt. Dan Choi and others who have recently challenged this stupid law were still on active duty for months after coming out and before being kicked out. Everyone in their unit knew and a big nothing happened. Just like a big nothing happened in other countries that lifted their bans. Are you going to say that Israel, for example, does not really need unit cohesion and national security?

Lying, OTOH, does hurt. Kicking out people with vital skills hurts. Women submitting to rape to cover the fact that they are lesbians hurts.

If a straight guy can't handle a gay man in a shower, how the HELL is he supposed to take on al Qaeda? You know, you rarely hear these concerns from straight women. There are definitely straight female homophobes, but every woman, no matter how homophobic, knows that the real threat of sexual assault does not come from lesbians.

Apparently, straight men and women join the US Armed Forces for a lot of reasons: To serve their country. Travel and adventure. Employment, job skills, chance for an education. Family tradition. Maybe because they know themselves to be aggressive people and want an outlet. But apparently gay men and lesbians join the US Armed Forces solely to be able to stare at straights in the showers.

 

[Colonel Ronan]

Or, I guess you could just have everyone shower together... men, women, straight, gay, doesn't matter..... everyone showering together. Nakedness id beautiful. Although I must warn the ladies, the mens room tends to be much less plush than the ladies, so I guess we would be moving up in the world.

Creepy.