Duop > Ayton?

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B-Roy

B-Roy

If it takes months
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At least offensively?



Pretty extensive thread about how awful Ayton is at setting screns.
 
THE HCP said:
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I've been critical of Duop, but it's hard to argue the effectiveness. Some combination of his shooting + knowing how to play just works with this team. Too bad he's rough defensively and on the boards.
 
B-Roy said:
I've been critical of Duop, but it's hard to argue the effectiveness. Some combination of his shooting + knowing how to play just works with this team. Too bad he's rough defensively and on the boards.
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He's a nice change of pace because of his shooting. I wish we had Rob to pair him with.
 
B-Roy said:
I've been critical of Duop, but it's hard to argue the effectiveness. Some combination of his shooting + knowing how to play just works with this team. Too bad he's rough defensively and on the boards.
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All I know is, the coaches LOVE this kid. Works his ass off and has a great attitude. Been pleasantly surprised by hi play that’s for sure. Very cool guy if that means anything.
 
ill tell you something, im not missing nurk not being on our team at all

after kanter > nurk, whiteside > nurk, eubanks > nurk, now we have duop > ayton, this forum certainly remains loyal to whatever this is
 
considering the huge differential in observable talent, that this is even brought up seems crazy.

some statistical snapshots:

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and the on/off comparison:

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one other set of numbers is that opposing teams have an offensive rating of 115.0 when Ayton is on court and 114.5 when he's off court. Opponents have an offensive rating of 108.8 when Reath is on court and 116.3 when he's off court. Suggesting that Portland's defense is 0.5 points worse with Ayton and 7.5 points better with Reath

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there are obviously other factors at work in these numbers other than just Ayton vs Reath. Like rotations and quality of opponents, etc.. Still, I'm a little surprised at how Portland plays with Reath vs how they play with Ayton. Not very surprised because I have always thought Ayton is overrated and that the least important position in today's NBA is C, unless that C has generational talent.

I do think it's pretty notable that Reath is a poor rebounder for a C and not a paint presence on defense or a rim protector, but the Blazers appear to play better with Reath than with Ayton. Might just be some statistical skew and artifacts at this point but it's worth tracking. Of course, my bias is I'd rather have Nurkic than Ayton
 
wizenheimer said:
considering the huge differential in observable talent, that this is even brought up seems crazy.

some statistical snapshots:

View attachment 60562

*********************************************************************************************************************

and the on/off comparison:

View attachment 60563
View attachment 60564
View attachment 60565

one other set of numbers is that opposing teams have an offensive rating of 115.0 when Ayton is on court and 114.5 when he's off court. Opponents have an offensive rating of 108.8 when Reath is on court and 116.3 when he's off court. Suggesting that Portland's defense is 0.5 points worse with Ayton and 7.5 points better with Reath

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there are obviously other factors at work in these numbers other than just Ayton vs Reath. Like rotations and quality of opponents, etc.. Still, I'm a little surprised at how Portland plays with Reath vs how they play with Ayton. Not very surprised because I have always thought Ayton is overrated and that the least important position in today's NBA is C, unless that C has generational talent.

I do think it's pretty notable that Reath is a poor rebounder for a C and not a paint presence on defense or a rim protector, but the Blazers appear to play better with Reath than with Ayton. Might just be some statistical skew and artifacts at this point but it's worth tracking. Of course, my bias is I'd rather have Nurkic than Ayton
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Yep. Ayton looks way more talented out there but for whatever reason the Blazers play better with Reath on the floor. That was the point of the thread.
 
Is it possible..... that Sharpe's improvement has more to do with Anfernee Simons returning?

Ayton has played a grand total of... what.... 2 quarters(?) with Simons. Reath has played the last three games with Simons. Reath hasn't even played 50% of the minutes that Ayton has this season. He has been the starter the last three games. I would think that would have a large impact on such a small sample size. How many minutes has Shaedon played with Reath compared to Ayton?
 
Natebishop3 said:
Is it possible..... that Sharpe's improvement has more to do with Anfernee Simons returning?

Ayton has played a grand total of... what.... 2 quarters(?) with Simons. Reath has played the last three games with Simons. Reath hasn't even played 50% of the minutes that Ayton has this season. He has been the starter the last three games. I would think that would have a large impact on such a small sample size. How many minutes has Shaedon played with Reath compared to Ayton?
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Shaedon has played 127 minutes with Reath. He has an ORTG of 119.89, 21.84 USG%, 61.59 TS%, 1.06 PPP
He has played 465 minutes with Ayton. ORTG of 103.56, 2193 USG%, 50.7 TS%, and .84 PPP

Of course, it's not a fair direct comparison, because it doesn't factor in everyone else on the court, and who the opponents are, etc.
 
Hasn't Ayton talked about wanting to be a PF before? I think we should grant him that opportunity. He seems like a PF trapped in a center's body.
 
THE HCP said:
All I know is, the coaches LOVE this kid. Works his ass off and has a great attitude. Been pleasantly surprised by hi play that’s for sure. Very cool guy if that means anything.
Click to expand...

Wow some inside info. I knew you could do it! Good job!! Dude seems like a gem.
 
Points in paint have been leaning heavily in opponents favor since Ayton's injury. It's not a sustainable way to keep games competitive. If the rapid fire Blazer 3-point shots stop falling, Portland is gonna get smoked on the scoreboard.

Don't want to take anything away from Reath, he's been a very decent pick & pop role playing Center. But Ayton has shown a much, much better knack for getting stops, boards, and finishing around the rim.
 
BankTeller said:
A perfect emergency big. Similar to Mays, but for centers. Reath is a great two-way contract.
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Not even emergency really. I wouldn’t mind tossing him out there every game just to see if his jumpers on, or not.

Mays is decent but damn does he dribble the air out of the ball with no real plan.
 
MickZagger said:
Not even emergency really. I wouldn’t mind tossing him out there every game just to see if his jumpers on, or not.

Mays is decent but damn does he dribble the air out of the ball with no real plan.
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I’m not really interested in him during a year where we really compete. I want to double dip at center this year, and I think there are more than a few guys that would be better players than Reath right away. Even PJ Hall, a guy who a team will draft with no expectation that he will become anything more then a role player, is going to be way more effective right away because outside of being about to shoot a 3, he also will hustle on the boards and can protect the rim a little bit. I’d much rather draft him in the 2nd round and play him as a third string center than actually have Reath be a third string center.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Is it possible..... that Sharpe's improvement has more to do with Anfernee Simons returning?

Ayton has played a grand total of... what.... 2 quarters(?) with Simons. Reath has played the last three games with Simons. Reath hasn't even played 50% of the minutes that Ayton has this season. He has been the starter the last three games. I would think that would have a large impact on such a small sample size. How many minutes has Shaedon played with Reath compared to Ayton?
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Bingo. Sharpe is better off ball than being an initiator on offense. He looked uncomfortable in that role. Could be a reason why Ant and Dame never had huge performances in the same game but with Sharpe and Ant it's the opposite.
 
I'd like to see the Blazers experiment with playing Ayton at PF and Grant at SF. If Ayton plays well a PF, that means our market is expanded. We can look for starting center or PF.
 
I lobbied for years to get Ayton because I thought he could be had cheap and would be a great and versatile front-court defender - big enough to handle big men, fast enough on his feet to guard on the perimeter. But I'm already sick of him. He's a nicer Michael Olowokandi - body of a David Robinson but just not a basketball player. Bad hands (despite good rebounding totals, weirdly) and can't set screens. Decent jump shot but overall a drain on the offense.

If he REALLY CARED he could be Rasheed Wallace with rebounding. But he doesn't. And I don't think he can be made to care. So start looking for places to offload him. I suggest Detroit, because Monty had him playing that Suns team to the finals, (although how many disappointing top-3 pick big men can they stand) or Brooklyn (say what you like about Ben Simmons, but at least his contract is 1 year shorter, and I'd ask for Day'Ron Sharpe as a throw-in).
 
Given how disappointing Ayton has been, and given how good Jaquez has been, I can't help wondering if we'd've been better off with the Miami Dame Trade. But then again, I have a feeling they knew what they had in Jaquez and would've refused to include him, and fuck Jovic.
 
Fun fact, Duop is averaging 8.2 3p attempts per 36 mins and shooting 37% on those. All his stats look pretty similar to Naz Reid, who is signed to a 3 yr/42M contract and is worth every penny of it.

Screen Shot 2024-01-08 at 2.28.31 PM.png
 
Whyachi said:
Center in Portland becomes inherently difficult when Blazer guards let their man blow right past them.

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Day'Ron got away with a little shove there...

Duop isn't great in a drop regardless--which is why we see a lot more switching with him out there--big reason why his rebounding numbers aren't great either.
 
JDC said:
Day'Ron got away with a little shove there...

Duop isn't great in a drop regardless--which is why we see a lot more switching with him out there--big reason why his rebounding numbers aren't great either.
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there was no shoving. That was the patented Blazers "hedge" defense. The guard opens the driving lane for the ballhandler, so the guard can take a quick breather from playing defense. It hasn't worked in 10 years, so of course Portland has to keep using it.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
I lobbied for years to get Ayton because I thought he could be had cheap and would be a great and versatile front-court defender - big enough to handle big men, fast enough on his feet to guard on the perimeter. But I'm already sick of him. He's a nicer Michael Olowokandi - body of a David Robinson but just not a basketball player. Bad hands (despite good rebounding totals, weirdly) and can't set screens. Decent jump shot but overall a drain on the offense.

If he REALLY CARED he could be Rasheed Wallace with rebounding. But he doesn't. And I don't think he can be made to care. So start looking for places to offload him. I suggest Detroit, because Monty had him playing that Suns team to the finals, (although how many disappointing top-3 pick big men can they stand) or Brooklyn (say what you like about Ben Simmons, but at least his contract is 1 year shorter, and I'd ask for Day'Ron Sharpe as a throw-in).
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I agree, I can't stand players that don't play hard. He's a loser.
 
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