e_blazer, well members.cox.net

[magnifier661]

A quote on another thread regarding "draft day trades"

No point to this discussion. Oden can't be traded since he's on an expiring contract.



http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q88

88. When can't a player be traded? Can players be given "no-trade" clauses in their contracts?

When the trading deadline has passed. Teams are free to make trades again once their season has ended, but cannot trade players whose contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO.

So what does that mean? We won't be able to use Miller, Oden, Camby, or Johnson on draft day.

Only players available to trade on draft day are: Roy, LMA, Wallace, Matthews, Babbit, Williams, Fernandez and Batum.

I look above and it really seems Portland may not be doing anything too "KP status" during this draft.

 

[RR7]

we can trade Miller and Camby. They each have one year left on their deal. New deals don't turn over until July 1st, so technically, they are not on ending deals.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I believe that is correct. Because of the potential lockout, expirings won't be able to be dealt on draft day. Because the Blazers had virtually no hope of getting out of the first round, and the potential lockout, I was screaming for the team to deal Miller and Camby at the deadline. Hopfully we won't lose them for nothing now

 

[glazeduck]

It's exceedingly rare (may never have happened to my recollection), but trades CAN be agreed to in principle - I believe - w/ S&Ts, they would just have to wait until the FA period and the contract, of course, would have to be agreed upon by the Free Agent.

How you'd get around tampering accusations I'm not sure, nor am I confident that the above would remain the same in a lockout situation, so take everything I say w/ a grain of salt, but I just because the timing is off, I don't believe, COMPLETELY nixes a deal - but it certainly makes it A LOT tougher...

 

[PapaG]

I believe that is correct. Because of the potential lockout, expirings won't be able to be dealt on draft day. Because the Blazers had virtually no hope of getting out of the first round, and the potential lockout, I was screaming for the team to deal Miller and Camby at the deadline. Hopfully we won't lose them for nothing now

Miller and Camby can both be traded until June 30th, can't they? A team option is still having a player under contract. The Blazers traded for Ryan Gomes last year, and while Gomes had three years left on his contract, they were team options with a buy-out, so Gomes was able to be "expired".

Also, why would the July 1st lockout have anything to do with a draft-day trade? The team option would still be held until June 30th to any team who trades for Camby or Miller, but that would be the case whether there is a lockout or otherwise.

 

[magnifier661]

we can trade Miller and Camby. They each have one year left on their deal. New deals don't turn over until July 1st, so technically, they are not on ending deals.

So Oden as well?

 

[e_blazer]

Oden can't be traded prior to the end of this season since his contract is ending. Miller I'm uncertain on, because I've seen his contract listed both as having an option for an additional season and as not being guaranteed for next year. If there's an option, then he can't be traded prior to June 30th because his contract could end. If it's simply that his last year is not guaranteed, then it's my understanding that he can be traded in that time period. Camby has another year on his contract so he's fair game for a trade before the end of the season.

The reason for this provision in the CBA is to prevent teams simply using a trade as a salary dump.

 

[magnifier661]

My mistake.... I was really excited that Cho was going to make some noise in the draft and got bummed out on e_blazer's post. So I can be excited again?

 

[RR7]

yes, oyu can be excited again. Camby for sure can be dealt. No on Oden. And I am pretty sure I have seen Miller reported as unguaranteed, which makes him similar to Dampier, and also able to be traded.

 

[e_blazer]

My mistake.... I was really excited that Cho was going to make some noise in the draft and got bummed out on e_blazer's post. So I can be excited again?

You can still be excited, but just don't include the idea of trading Greg prior to the draft in your enthusiasm. Batum might be worth considering for a move-up, however.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Miller and Camby can both be traded until June 30th, can't they? A team option is still having a player under contract. The Blazers traded for Ryan Gomes last year, and while Gomes had three years left on his contract, they were team options with a buy-out, so Gomes was able to be "expired".

Also, why would the July 1st lockout have anything to do with a draft-day trade? The team option would still be held until June 30th to any team who trades for Camby or Miller, but that would be the case whether there is a lockout or otherwise.

It wouldn't. There was talk several months ago that the NBA and players assoc. would call for a moretorium on trades. That doesn't look like it will happen though, and you are right about the team option. Camby doesn't have a team option though....at least I don't think he does?

 

[magnifier661]

It wouldn't. There was talk several months ago that the NBA and players assoc. would call for a moretorium on trades. That doesn't look like it will happen though, and you are right about the team option. Camby doesn't have a team option though....at least I don't think he does?

He is signed until the end of 2011/12, so he will be available.

 

[Nikolokolus]

It wouldn't. There was talk several months ago that the NBA and players assoc. would call for a moretorium on trades. That doesn't look like it will happen though, and you are right about the team option. Camby doesn't have a team option though....at least I don't think he does?

Miller's deal is unguaranteed and Camby does not have an option. Thus both players should be available for trade on draft day ... having said that I think the Blazers have painted themselves into a corner at the point guard position and I think they will bring him back for an additional season. Likewise Camby because of all the uncertainty surrounding Oden.

My best guess is that both players will be traded, but it won't happen until the league resumes play after the new CBA is agreed to (December? January?) ... then again how knows how the trade rules will be setup and how expirings will figure into the calculus.

I think things are going to be quite a mess for a while.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

You can still be excited, but just don't include the idea of trading Greg prior to the draft in your enthusiasm. Batum might be worth considering for a move-up, however.

Move up? I am confused. We do not have a first round pick that I am aware of. So you must be thinking we buy a low first, (hello Suns) and then trade it and Nic for some mid first rounder in a poor draft..I don't want to sound so pithy, but I am not at all excited about the draft this year.

Most years I am jazzed, reading everything I can get my hands on, hell I make Mags look like a casual fan, he he. But with as cautious as Cho appears to be, I just don't have much faith in us doing much. I can see us getting picks and using them in trades for current players though. With several teams picking high, they have guys on their rosters that may suddenly become "available" .

 

[e_blazer]

Move up? I am confused. We do not have a first round pick that I am aware of. So you must be thinking we buy a low first, (hello Suns) and then trade it and Nic for some mid first rounder in a poor draft..I don't want to sound so pithy, but I am not at all excited about the draft this year.

Most years I am jazzed, reading everything I can get my hands on, hell I make Mags look like a casual fan, he he. But with as cautious as Cho appears to be, I just don't have much faith in us doing much. I can see us getting picks and using them in trades for current players though. With several teams picking high, they have guys on their rosters that may suddenly become "available" .

The Blazers still have their own 1st round pick. They traded the one they got from NOH from the Bayless deal in the package for Wallace.

 

[Denny Crane]

Oden can't be traded prior to the end of this season since his contract is ending. Miller I'm uncertain on, because I've seen his contract listed both as having an option for an additional season and as not being guaranteed for next year. If there's an option, then he can't be traded prior to June 30th because his contract could end. If it's simply that his last year is not guaranteed, then it's my understanding that he can be traded in that time period. Camby has another year on his contract so he's fair game for a trade before the end of the season.

The reason for this provision in the CBA is to prevent teams simply using a trade as a salary dump.

If Oden is rfa, he can be signed and traded.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

The Blazers still have their own 1st round pick. They traded the one they got from NOH from the Bayless deal in the package for Wallace.

Huh, yeah you are right, I had forgotten about that pick from NOH. Now if I could nly get excited about the guys in this draft..

 

[e_blazer]

If Oden is rfa, he can be signed and traded.

We're talking about prior to the draft. Players on ending contracts can't be traded in the time period between the end of the team's season and June 30th. The Blazers can't sign Oden, or do a sign and trade, until after July 1st, at the earliest, or whenever a new CBA is signed if it's after that date.

 

[BrianFromWA]

If Oden is rfa, he can be signed and traded.

I need to clarify this for myself, but I don't think that that's right. I don't even know what the mechanism is for that, b/c Oden has to sign an offer sheet for the Blazers to be able to match. If he signs the offer sheet, that's locked in at a certain amount and raises.

From Coon:

There can be no compensation given to a team in return for their not matching an offer to a restricted free agent. For example, Houston could not sign Golden State's restricted free agent, then send Golden State a draft pick in exchange for their not matching the offer and retaining the player.

If the team matches an offer sheet, they cannot trade the player in a sign-and-trade arrangement (see question number 79).

So the Blazers can't match the offer, then trade Oden; and they can't receive anything in trade for not signing him...I don't think Oden can be S&T'd.

 

[e_blazer]

Huh, yeah you are right, I had forgotten about that pick from NOH. Now if I could nly get excited about the guys in this draft..

Yeah, well, I can't help you much there.

 

[e_blazer]

A couple of other things that need to be factored into this discussion about Oden:

1. The amount of money he'd get on a max contract is likely to be considerably less than it would have been under the existing CBA since it's currently tied to 25% of the salary cap. The owners are looking to push the cap down to around $45 mil from the current $58 mil. If it ends up around there, his first year salary would be about $11.25 mil rather than the $14.5 mil he'd start at based on this year's cap.

2. The decision on what to do with Oden may hinge in part on what the new CBA allows in terms of an amnesty clause. If Brandon's salary could be wiped from the books entirely, then signing Oden to a max deal would be a lot more palatable.

 

[RR7]

I need to clarify this for myself, but I don't think that that's right. I don't even know what the mechanism is for that, b/c Oden has to sign an offer sheet for the Blazers to be able to match. If he signs the offer sheet, that's locked in at a certain amount and raises.

From Coon:
So the Blazers can't match the offer, then trade Oden; and they can't receive anything in trade for not signing him...I don't think Oden can be S&T'd.

Yes, he still can. Just like a normal S&T. Not on an offer sheet.

 

[e_blazer]

Yes, he still can. Just like a normal S&T. Not on an offer sheet.

Yeah, at least under the current CBA, Oden and the Blazers could agree to a new contract and do a sign-and-trade with another team. They'd have to work around base year compensation issues. One of the things on the owners' list of proposed changes, however, is doing away with sign-and-trades.

 

[Draco]

2. The decision on what to do with Oden may hinge in part on what the new CBA allows in terms of an amnesty clause. If Brandon's salary could be wiped from the books entirely, then signing Oden to a max deal would be a lot more palatable.

I think its the opposite. If Roy's contract is off the salary cap the Blazers will be more reluctant to give Greg a large offer since it would reduce their chance of signing a future impact free agent. If Roy is still on the books it'll be unlikely we have room for a big free agent so signing Oden would have a lower opportunity cost.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Things that reduce our chance of signing a future impact free agent (in order of severity):

(a) The team is not close to being under the cap by a significant amount, Roy or no Roy
(b) The team is in Portland, OR
(c) The team doesn't make it out of the first round
(d) Only having a Big Two even if you did sign a big-money FA.

 

[Denny Crane]

I need to clarify this for myself, but I don't think that that's right. I don't even know what the mechanism is for that, b/c Oden has to sign an offer sheet for the Blazers to be able to match. If he signs the offer sheet, that's locked in at a certain amount and raises.

From Coon:
So the Blazers can't match the offer, then trade Oden; and they can't receive anything in trade for not signing him...I don't think Oden can be S&T'd.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/crawford_trade_040805.html

I think Crawford shopped his own deal and the Bulls executed it via S&T.

It was after July 1.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/curry_traded_051004.html

Similar situation with Eddy Curry.