Evolution

[Roaming]

I saw BCB complaining about this before, I think its a load of hooey. I believe there is a God and there was Adam and Eve. Evolution to me is a load of complete BS. I want to ask, if we are constantly evolving how come humans from today and humans from 5,000 years ago are identical?

 

[The Captain]

I don't know, and I don't care.I'm just glad it that it happened.

 

[BrewCityBuck]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ May 16 2007, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I saw BCB complaining about this before, I think its a load of hooey. I believe there is a God and there was Adam and Eve. Evolution to me is a load of complete BS. I want to ask, if we are constantly evolving how come humans from today and humans from 5,000 years ago are identical?</div> Um, evolution takes a lot longer than 5,000 years bone head.

 

[Memphology]

I believe in a mixture of both. Humans do evolve, but I dont think whole different species can evolve from one common ancestor. Its proven that animals do adapt to their enviroments from evidence from South America and Africa. I personaly believe that God does his works in scientific ways. I also believe that the Bible is taken way too literal...alotve the King James version is misinterpreted. And example of this is a theory that Moses didnt cross the "Red Sea", but the "Reed Sea", which is ALOT more shallow. The Reed Sea is located right above Egypt and Israel. Its my personal beliefs, and ive looked hard into evolution because I had alotve questions and still question today, but there is no real hard evidence that we all evolved from micro-organisms. Im not going to get into this discussion cause ive been in them before on here and they lead to nothing. But thats what I personaly believe. And I just hope that people who dont believe in any God will take a second look at it like I did. I once too believe there was no God, but the more and more I looked into evolution and all the different type of theories, I realized that hardly any of them have hard evidence to back them up. Please, I just ask not to bash religions, cause its a big deal in my life. And if you believe in something else, please just be respectful to what I, and other followers believe. I ask the same of people who believe in God to respect other peoples beliefs.

 

[pjcolpitts?]

See, you have it wrong; we dont constantly change. Its a change over a long, long, long time. Its not like I'm gonna have a child that is able to fly just because that would be better than walking all over the place. It doesn't work like that. Its more like how come children with weak immune systems have a much higher risk of dieing than someone who has a strong one. If you look at it the way nature looks at it, Kid A is weaker than Kid B and shouldnt outlast Kid B. It's like the appendix. You think God made us with a useless organ? No, at some point it had a function, but doesn't any more, thats why your able to live without it. There are a ton more examples, but I'm sure these two do the justice. Also, you cant disprove Evolution with the whole "Creation/Higher Being" story because A) the bible isnt a proven fact and

almost everyone classifies you as a "Christian Nut". You have to disprove Evolution using Science. Tell me, has any scientist ever found the "Missing Link" that connects chimps to man? The answer is no; thats the way you have to disprove the Evolution theory, the bible way wont work. The Bible isnt a book of facts, its a book of faith.

 

[BrewCityBuck]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pjcolpitts? @ May 16 2007, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Also, you cant disprove Evolution with the whole "Creation/Higher Being" story because A) the bible isnt a proven fact and

almost everyone classifies you as a "Christian Nut". You have to disprove Evolution using Science. Tell me, has any scientist ever found the "Missing Link" that connects chimps to man? The answer is no; thats the way you have to disprove the Evolution theory, the bible way wont work. The Bible isnt a book of facts, its a book of faith.</div> That was a great point.

 

[Memphology]

True, the Bible isnt proven fact, but there is alot of historical accurate stuff in there that we havent found out about until recently. But im not trying to prove science wrong..cause I believe that we DO "evolve", but not in the sense of evolution. Im just saying that evolution isnt a proven fact either. Like you said, there hasnt been a missing link found yet.

 

[BrewCityBuck]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ May 16 2007, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I saw BCB complaining about this before, I think its a load of hooey. I believe there is a God and there was Adam and Eve.</div> Ah yes, two white people who wondered around a fruit tree with a big evil snake were the start of humanity....I mean, good lord, if you find that to be something to believe and call evolution a bunch of hooey, I don't know what to think of you.

 

[pjcolpitts?]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ May 16 2007, 03:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That was a great point.</div>Yeah, last year I had to write a report on this whole thing. Lots of research and time into the matter. Plus I go to a Christian based school, so yeah, but the Professer was glad I took the route of science and not the Bible. It just makes you look more professional I believe, but more importantly more credible.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Ah yes, two white people who wondered around a fruit tree with a big evil snake were the start of humanity....I mean, good lord, if you find that to be something to believe and call evolution a bunch of hooey, I don't know what to think of you.</div>See, if you use that as scientific evidence, you come across just as bad as a Scientologist. Remember I'm a Christian and believe the Bible, but that doesn't mean its the number one science book. Also, I dont want to sound like I'm singling out The Bible. I mean, you'd look pretty uncredible if you used the Qur'an, Book of Mormon, Torah, etc.

 

[Memphology]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ May 16 2007, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ah yes, two white people who wondered around a fruit tree with a big evil snake were the start of humanity....I mean, good lord, if you find that to be something to believe and call evolution a bunch of hooey, I don't know what to think of you.</div>First of all, its never says anything about skin color about adam & eve. Its from European artists who portrayed them to be white. I know you were directing that at Raptors, but I believe the Bible is taken too literal, I dont believe a actual snake "talked"..come on.

 

[redneck]

I believe that the bible is just a collection of stories to show people a better way of living. because if you follow the bible for the most part you're going to be a bit more happier than if not(I guess I should say if you follow any religious text not just the bible). because lets face it, a crack ho probably isn't the happiest person alive. I don't think the bible should be taken literally, because a lot of what it has to say is pure horseshit. like God flooding the entire Earth and the only person who lived is some *ucker with a boat, or Giants being killed with a sling shot. Those two stories may have been originated in fact, but the bible blew them totally out of porportion. The Story of Noah is stolen from the Mesopotamian story of Gilgamesh. and the Philistiens were taller than Israelites but only by a few inches. and David was likely around 5 feet tall, and Goliath was about 6 feet tall(according to archaelogical findings of peoples of the period) As for the original topic of Evolution. I think it's definatly a good theory, but it shouldn't be relied upon as fact. If you sit down and read Darwin and others you can see where they are comming from. that it takes thousands of years or even tens of thousands for a species to change. But Evolution does have a lot of holes in it, such as missing links ect. now this could be explained because those species didn't fossilize or what ever but until there is concrete proof of evolution I'm going to be a bit reserved. I'm not however one of those people who believe that God created man and said "and it was good" and thats that. I think there is a much more biological reason as to why we are here. Evolution is the best of any of the theories or creation stories I have heard or read about and I do tend to side with that one in any argument. though I do have to admit God Creating everything is a much more likely scenario than Aliens creating everything.

 

[LAZY]

I dont believe in evolution, I believe in creation.Im remember sleeping everyday when we were forced to learn, do book work, and take tests about evolution. I believe there is probably other living things out there

 

[Memphology]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (redneck @ May 16 2007, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I believe that the bible is just a collection of stories to show people a better way of living. because if you follow the bible for the most part you're going to be a bit more happier than if not(I guess I should say if you follow any religious text not just the bible). because lets face it, a crack ho probably isn't the happiest person alive. I don't think the bible should be taken literally, because a lot of what it has to say is pure horseshit. like God flooding the entire Earth and the only person who lived is some *ucker with a boat, or Giants being killed with a sling shot. Those two stories may have been originated in fact, but the bible blew them totally out of porportion. The Story of Noah is stolen from the Mesopotamian story of Gilgamesh. and the Philistiens were taller than Israelites but only by a few inches. and David was likely around 5 feet tall, and Goliath was about 6 feet tall(according to archaelogical findings of peoples of the period)</div>You make many good points there. But Noah wasnt "Stolen" from the story of Gilgamesh, it IS the same story. You see this in the Torah and the Koran. Its the same story, just different names and more of a historical background rather than religious. And ive read that science shows that the common man was about 5'5 then, and Goliaths size was probably about 7'1 or 7'2...like the NBAs center. It says Goliath wasnt of normal size, so the common man may have been 6ft, but Goliath was more likely taller.Which again, he is portrayed to be a literal giant in art...which isnt the case. Also, on Digging for the Truth on the history channel, they proved that shepards back then were skilled enough(slingshoting was a method of herding)to actually kill a man and be that accurate to hit somebody in the head.

 

[Justice]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ May 16 2007, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I want to ask, if we are constantly evolving how come humans from today and humans from 5,000 years ago are identical?</div>Uh, we aren't identical.edit: but if you are wondering about why we are very similar, it's partly because humans adapt the environment around us. It's pretty hard to die off when you're smart enough to build houses, create aquaducts, create air conditioning, heating, etc.

 

[gentile]

How many different species of animals have lived and died on this planet? Where did the new species come from? And how did they die, and why aren't they alive today? There are exponentially more dead ones than vice versa.Evolution seems very credible because of the obvious cyclical nature of life itself on this planet. When man finishes destroying himself, what fills the vacuum? How does it get here?

 

[7Goat]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (austingriz @ May 16 2007, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You make many good points there. But Noah wasnt "Stolen" from the story of Gilgamesh, it IS the same story. You see this in the Torah and the Koran. Its the same story, just different names and more of a historical background rather than religious. And ive read that science shows that the common man was about 5'5 then, and Goliaths size was probably about 7'1 or 7'2...like the NBAs center. It says Goliath wasnt of normal size, so the common man may have been 6ft, but Goliath was more likely taller.Which again, he is portrayed to be a literal giant in art...which isnt the case. Also, on Digging for the Truth on the history channel, they proved that shepards back then were skilled enough(slingshoting was a method of herding)to actually kill a man and be that accurate to hit somebody in the head.</div>Goliath was proven to be about 9 feet tall (in the bible of course) Something about cubits, which was a measuring unit back then. And it mentioned that.

 

[Memphology]

Oh, dont know. It said on Digging for the Truth he was about 7'2...but History Channels shows arent always credible.

 

[7Goat]

http://home.teleport.com/~salad/4god/cubit.htmIt all depends. Pretty sure he was like 9-10 feet though.

 

[Memphology]

Probaby, my biology teacher was telling us that back then, the oxygen was alot more pure, and it made humans bigger. Not saying everybody was 7-10 ft tall, but they were probably around 6 foot. And Goliath was bigger than everybody else.

 

[redneck]

I don't believe that at all. messurements get lost in translation really easy, so it may say X number of cubits, but the exact messurement of a cubit may change from ancient Hebrew, to Sumarian, to Persian, to Greek and so one. I also doubt it's even physically possible for a human to be 9 feet tall, look at the giant giants(those above 7'4") they almost all have health problems, and it's unlikely any military would use someone that big because they become a target. Goliath may have been 7 feet, thats totally possible since there are seven footers around today, but there is no archaelogical record of anyone bigger than 7'8" ever being found in the middle east. infact finding remains seven footers in the old world before the Pax Romana is rare. the reason being is that it takes a lot of stuff to support someone that big, stuff which most societies of the time didn't have in excess. not to mention giants cannot withstand the physical punishment that militant societies demaned, he simply would have broken and died.

 

[Memphology]

Personaly, I dont know alot about it. Ill probably read up on it later though. But my biology teacher was saying that since the enviroment was much different then and so was the body structure....proving human adaptation. And he said the people around that height were probably more stable than todays giants, cause gerenaly, when your 7'6 or above your body isnt strong enough, as seen even in Yao Ming. Im not sure, I personaly read Goliath was about 7-8 foot, but other may say otherwise.

 

[Justice]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pjcolpitts? @ May 16 2007, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You have to disprove Evolution using Science. Tell me, has any scientist ever found the "Missing Link" that connects chimps to man? The answer is no; thats the way you have to disprove the Evolution theory, the bible way wont work.</div><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (redneck @ May 16 2007, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>But Evolution does have a lot of holes in it, such as missing links ect.</div>One problem with this is that evolution is not linear. In other words, it does not always go single-celled organism --> multi-celled organism --> fish --> amphibian --> reptile --> ape --> human --> whatever. Now, obviously the first two are pretty undisputable since you'd doubt that the multi-celled organism would come first, but in other cases, people seem to misunderstand how evolution works. It can go in any direction... an population of a certain animal could gain a "positive" trait (like an opposable thumb) or a "negative" trait (like cancer). An animal could gain the ability to breath out of water or lose it... there's nothing in DNA that says that we will only get better and gain wings or anything. Anyway, I'm digressing a bit. The point is that it is not believed that we evolved from chimps or apes, but a common ancestor. That causes a problem, because if you are trying to find a link between us and apes, there is none. The link you would need to find is the one between us and said ancestor (which would also need to be found).

 

[Memphology]

Yeah, theres alot of stuff that shows that human kind has evolved. Im not really denying that "survival of the fittest" or even some parts of evolution doesn't happen, cause theres a few things that proves we do change over time. For example, fetus's have gills, we end up losing them, but a human baby actually starts out with gills. Thats incredible to think about. I guess the real reason I argue evolution as a whole is because alotve people try to prove it, just to prove God wrong. Which my personal opinion is God works in a scientific manner. Thats me though, I understand why people would believe strictly in evolution. But I have my own reasons in believing in God...yet you cant deny the fact of science. I dont believe we all evolved from a common ancestor, but I do believe we evolve.

 

[Milgod]

I find it funny when people say stuff about the bible like 'it's a series of stories to help us live our lives better' and 'it should be taken literally' becaue those are fairly modern ideas about religion. The bible did used to be taken as fact, people believed that the world was wiped out in a great flood bar Noah's family. As time has gone on people/religion tries to adapt so it doesn't sound so absolutely crazy that people would stop believing in god. Evolution is science, religion is just a crazy belief. Even if you don't think it's crazy, it is still just a belief that can't be proven in any way. I'm not going to say evolution is perfect, because it isn't, but at least a lot of it can be proven.

 

[primetime]

With all we know now I believe in evolution myself. If you think on a grander spectrum then just us as human beings you'd see we all are just a small insignificant part of the worlds cycle. someday people will look back on our civilizations like we do on dinosaurs and that's the way the earth is... always revolving and evolving. christianity is a creation of man, our era in time is very minoscule in comparison to the entire history of our planet much less time.

 

[Michael Bryant]

It's like those people who say "if people evolved from apes then why are there still apes?" Duh, people didn't evolve from apes, they are ancestors to apes but didn't directly evolve from them. I'm not well versed in this topic so I'll stop while I'm kinda ahead.

 

[Justice]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Michael Bryant @ May 18 2007, 07:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's like those people who say "if people evolved from apes then why are there still apes?" Duh, people didn't evolve from apes, they are ancestors to apes but didn't directly evolve from them. I'm not well versed in this topic so I'll stop while I'm kinda ahead.</div>Well... the reason there are still apes is because there is a niche for apes. It's not like one day an ape wakes up and is like, "Durr, I'm a human!" Apes don't just stop existing due to other species arising from evolution... that's just silly.

 

[primetime]

exactly, there were still ancient crocodiles even when the dinosaurs existed. evolution arises because of a need, such as birds from different regions having different types of beaks. It doesn't mean that a species entirely changes.

 

[desi tmac91]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (austingriz @ May 16 2007, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>True, the Bible isnt proven fact, but there is alot of historical accurate stuff in there that we havent found out about until recently. But im not trying to prove science wrong..cause I believe that we DO "evolve", but not in the sense of evolution. Im just saying that evolution isnt a proven fact either. Like you said, there hasnt been a missing link found yet.</div>I think the Bible WAS a book of facts when Jesus first introduced it to, but when Peter and the others came and changed it...it wasn't. Well thats what I believe.

 

[7Goat]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (desi tmac91 @ May 18 2007, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think the Bible WAS a book of facts when Jesus first introduced it to, but when Peter and the others came and changed it...it wasn't. Well thats what I believe.</div>Yeah but what is that even based on?I did read this really good book about evolution vs. creation, and it was pretty interesting. Too bad I don't remember what it was. It basically talked about how the Bible can be reliable for scientific information but it's odd that the creation and evolution, basically how we got here, is still up for debate. Also, a lot of scientists have admitted that they can't believe how this world came without a bigger thing (God).