Ex-Christian nation?

[Fez Hammersticks]

So I was listening to talk radio yesterday and the publisher of Time magazine said that the United States is becoming less religious as time goes on. He called the U.S. an "ex-Christian nation."

16% of the population consider themselves non-religious and want nothing to do with religion. That's a huge amount of people. Significantly bigger than any minority group.

What caused this? do people realize that a talking snake and a talking burning bush is a little hard to believe? Or, maybe John Lennon's feelings are mutual with a lot of people:

There is even evidence for a brief period of his life in which Lennon, much to the chagrin of his wife Yoko, called himself a born-again Christian. But that lasted a short while, and he chalked it up to a decision based primarily on fear. He was so disillusioned with any kind of programmed response to a higher power that he knew he could only be sure of one thing: his own belief in himself.

John was disappointed with religious systems that try to control people out of fear or manipulation

 

[THE HCP]

I grew up in the church 'til I was 18 and moved out of my parents house. Haven't been back since. Same as my wife. Both of our parents still attend. Don't know why. I had no negative experiences, just don't feel the need to go. You guy should all watch Bill Maher's Religulous. Great film.

 

[DaRizzle]

I dont understand why Lennon is relevant to this but yeah...

 

[theprunetang]

I grew up in the church 'til I was 18 and moved out of my parents house. Haven't been back since. Same as my wife. Both of our parents still attend. Don't know why. I had no negative experiences, just don't feel the need to go. You guy should all watch Bill Maher's Religulous. Great film.

My story is exactly the same as yours. Grew up in the church until I was 18.
It didn't just end on some arbitrary date though. I had been doubtful for years. The more I learned, read, studied and observed with my own eyes, the more I decided that I didn't believe in God.

I call it my Age of Reason.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Religulous summed up my feelings on organized religion perfectly.

Actually read an article on declining faith in the US a while back and I remember them saying that most people in fact do not believe in "god" per se'. But that a majority of citizens feel themselves to be "spiritually" inclined rather than the whole "intelligent design" of a single creator being.

I don't feel the need to go, either, as I believe the organized stuff is all BS.

 

[Minstrel]

Religulous summed up my feelings on organized religion perfectly.

Actually read an article on declining faith in the US a while back and I remember them saying that most people in fact do not believe in "god" per se'. But that a majority of citizens feel themselves to be "spiritually" inclined rather than the whole "intelligent design" of a single creator being.

I don't feel the need to go, either, as I believe the organized stuff is all BS.

Yeah, I also think organized religion has a lot of problems. I think there may well be something to "spirituality" (what that is, whether it is just "god of the gaps," I couldn't say), but I think it makes a lot more sense for spirituality to be a personal endeavour, rather than an organizational one.

 

[e_blazer]

Well, if 78.4% of the adult population being Christian equates to the US being an "ex-Christian nation", then, yeah, I guess we are.

Only 1.6% claim to be atheists and another 2.4% are agnostic. That "nothing in particular" crowd is growing, however, at 12.1%.

http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

 

[BrianFromWA]

It's a cultural shift from knowing that you're a created being, and therefore no better than anyone else in society, to one in which the individual thinks of him/herself as the god (little g) of their immediate universe. It's not a matter of "believing in God" or not to most (not pointing out anyone in here). Once you think of yourself as your own moral compass, as "looking out for number one", as being able to control your own situation, and as anything more than a created being, that's when belief in big G God goes away.
And the US is the third-largest evangelical mission field in the world, after China and India.
When I talk to people who ask me questions about my faith, the name "Jesus" or "Gospel" or "salvation" doesn't come up for a long time. It's meaningless to talk to people about Christianity when they don't believe in the worldview of 1) a Creator created us, 2) Since He created us, he can set whatever rules He wants to (1. Love God perfectly. 2. Love others completely), and 3) humans don't (can't) live up to those rules. And there are more each day who aren't brought up with that worldview.

 

[Sinobas]

This is a great little satire on christian fundamentalism.

**********************************
This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:
John:"Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."

Mary: Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?"

John:"If you kiss Hank's ass, He'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, He'll kick the s**t out of you."

Me:"What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"

John:"Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss His ass."

Me:"That doesn't make any sense. Why..."

Mary:"Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"

Me:"Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."

John:"Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me:"Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"

Mary:"Oh yes, all the time..."

Me:"And has He given you a million dollars?"

John:"Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town."

Me:"So why don't you just leave town now?"

Mary:"You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and He kicks the s**t out of you."

Me:"Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?"

John:"My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."

Me:"Haven't you talked to her since then?"

John:"Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."

Me:"So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"

Mary:"Well, He gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street."

Me:"What's that got to do with Hank?"

John:"Hank has certain 'connections.'"

Me:"I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."

John:"But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass He'll kick the s**t of you."

Me:"Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him..."

Mary:"No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."

Me:"Then how do you kiss His ass?"

John:"Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."

Me:"Who's Karl?"

Mary:"A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."

Me:"And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?"

John:"Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."

From the desk of Karl
1. Kiss Hank's ass and He'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
2. Use alcohol in moderation.
3. Kick the s**t out of people who aren't like you.
4. Eat right.
5. Hank dictated this list Himself.
6. The moon is made of green cheese.
7. Everything Hank says is right.
8. Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
9. Don't use alcohol.
10. Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
11. Kiss Hank's ass or He'll kick the s**t out of you.

Me:"This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead."

Mary:"Hank didn't have any paper."

Me:"I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."

John:"Of course, Hank dictated it."

Me:"I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"

Mary:"Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people."

Me:"I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the s**t out of people just because they're different?"

Mary:"It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."

Me:"How do you figure that?"

Mary:"Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!"

Me:"Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."

John:"No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."

Me:"But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."

John:"There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."

Me:"Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."

Mary:"But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."

Me:"I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon was somehow 'captured' by the Earth has been discounted*. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."

John:"Ha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!"

Me:"We do?"

Mary:"Of course we do, Item 7 says so."

Me:"You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'"

John:"Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."

Me:"But...oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"

Mary:She blushes.
John:"Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."

Me:"What if I don't have a bun?"

John:"No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."

Me:"No relish? No Mustard?"

Mary:She looks positively stricken.

John:He's shouting. "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"

Me:"So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"

Mary:Sticks her fingers in her ears."I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la."

John:"That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that..."

Me:"It's good! I eat it all the time."

Mary:She faints.

John:He catches Mary. "Well, if I'd known you were one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the s**t out of you I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater."

With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.

 

[Shooter]

The more I learned, read, studied and observed with my own eyes, the more I decided that I didn't believe in God.

I call it my Age of Reason.

Hmm. Einstein believed in God, and he was a pretty smart guy.

 

[Minstrel]

Hmm. Einstein believed in God, and he was a pretty smart guy.

Einstein was an agnostic. He considered himself neither a theist nor an atheist. He felt the issue was too large for humans to know.

Here's what he said in a TIME interview:

I'm not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws.

And from a letter he wrote to a friend:

... The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These subtilised interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them.

 

[bodyman5001]

Hmm. Einstein believed in God, and he was a pretty smart guy.

Oh, that seals it for everyone then.

 

[bodyman5001]

Einstein was an agnostic. He considered himself neither a theist nor an atheist. He felt the issue was too large for humans to know.

Here's what he said in a TIME interview:



And from a letter he wrote to a friend:

Oh wait, this unseals everything.

 

[theprunetang]

Hmm. Einstein believed in God, and he was a pretty smart guy.

Did you see the part where I wrote the simple word "I"? That means the sentence, and furthermore, the post was about "me". Given that logic, the decisions that were made within the prose were made by me and only me.


I can decide what I want, and for me that is the best choice. I never claimed to be super intelligent, or that Einstein was on my side, or that people who don't agree with me are unintelligent.

I reached my "Personal Age of Reason". Do you have a problem with that language?


I really don't get you sometimes.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

This is a great little satire on christian fundamentalism.

**********************************

Great analogy

Einstein's summarizes it up epically.

"God didn't write books and Jesus was not a republican" - Bill Maher

 

[Sinobas]

The God of the bible is capable of incredible cruelty. He is sadistic beyond comprehension. He was once so pissed at his own creation that he drowned everyone, then supposedly sent them to fry for eternity. Which is the same fate for any who don't happen to blindly choose the correct religion. This God can be likened to a diabolical madman, who sends people poison, disguised as a drink, then tells them they have 10 seconds to chose the correct antidote.

Why would God create us with free will, then burn us for eternity because we, one time, excercised free will in a way which displeased him(what kind of "free will" is that anyway)? And the act was something as trivial as eating a PIECE OF FRUIT. The only way he could redeem this sinful fruit eating was to wait 4,000 years, then incarnate as his own son, to be tortured on a Roman cross. Christians believe they will be raptured up into heaven and made into perfect little angels. Well, that is what God wants us to be, why'd he create us as fallible humans with "free will" to begin with.

Then he leaves no evidence of his existence, and has apparently decided to go into hiding. If this deity had any shred of logic or virtue, wouldn't he make it perfectly clear who he is, make plain as day to everyone that he exists, and what we are supposed to do to avoid his wrath?

It's absurd, that we, in the 21st century, are still having a debate over this mythological character from 2,000 years ago.

 

[Sug]

Only about 30% of the worlds population strongly identifies with Christianity. The rest dabble or believe in something totally different, and Islam is the worlds fastest growing faith. In addition the majority of churches in the United States are full of sinners and hypocrites by their own definition, so is there any wonder that non-believers are growing faster than believers? The way right Christians are actually killing their own cause because their platform of intolerance will never win out, unless they promote it by force. I used to think we could have a race war in this country, but now I fear a religious war.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

The God of the bible is capable of incredible cruelty. He is sadistic beyond comprehension. He was once so pissed at his own creation that he drowned everyone, then supposedly sent them to fry for eternity. Which is the same fate for any who don't happen to blindly choose the correct religion. This God can be likened to a diabolical madman, who sends people poison, disguised as a drink, then tells them they have 10 seconds to chose the correct antidote.

Why would God create us with free will, then burn us for eternity because we, one time, excercised free will in a way which displeased him(what kind of "free will" is that anyway)? And the act was something as trivial as eating a PIECE OF FRUIT. The only way he could redeem this sinful fruit eating was to wait 4,000 years, then incarnate as his own son, to be tortured on a Roman cross. Christians believe they will be raptured up into heaven and made into perfect little angels. Well, that is what God wants us to be, why'd he create us as fallible humans with "free will" to begin with.

Then he leaves no evidence of his existence, and has apparently decided to go into hiding. If this deity had any shred of logic or virtue, wouldn't he make it perfectly clear who he is, make plain as day to everyone that he exists, and what we are supposed to do to avoid his wrath?

It's absurd, that we, in the 21st century, are still having a debate over this mythological character from 2,000 years ago.

Exactly. Just like John Lennon said, it's all purely based on fear and manipulation. In the old testament, you'd think it was the devil doing all of these things.

 

[Sinobas]

Exactly. Just like John Lennon said, it's all purely based on fear and manipulation. In the old testament, you'd think it was the devil doing all of these things.

Yes. If "pure love" can encompass torturing everyone for eternity, then what is evil?

 

[bodyman5001]

Yes. If "pure love" can encompass torturing everyone for eternity, then what is evil?

I don't know, which is why I choose to opt out of the deal. If I end up in hell, sucks to be me.

 

[BrianFromWA]

The God of the bible is capable of incredible cruelty. He is sadistic beyond comprehension. He was once so pissed at his own creation that he drowned everyone, then supposedly sent them to fry for eternity. Which is the same fate for any who don't happen to blindly choose the correct religion. This God can be likened to a diabolical madman, who sends people poison, disguised as a drink, then tells them they have 10 seconds to chose the correct antidote.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but that thing you call "incredible cruelty" and "sadistic beyond comprehension" is the Divine Manifestation of something called "Justice". Again, I can't speak for everyone. But that flood thing you're talking about didn't drown "everyone", even though all deserved it. Noah and his family were saved, because they were the only ones that believed the message that God gave Noah. Check out, if you'd like, the account of Abraham in Sodom as an example of God's mercy and the unwillingness of humanity to turn from disobeying the Creator's laws.

Why would God create us with free will, then burn us for eternity because we, one time, excercised free will in a way which displeased him(what kind of "free will" is that anyway)? And the act was something as trivial as eating a PIECE OF FRUIT.

Again, it's a bit different if instead of saying "piece of fruit", you say "the only possible thing in the entire universe they could have done that disobeyed the Law of the Creator of the Universe". Then it's not so trivial, is it?

The only way he could redeem this sinful fruit eating was to wait 4,000 years, then incarnate as his own son, to be tortured on a Roman cross.

I don't think it's the onlyway, but the way God chose in His sovereignty.

Christians believe they will be raptured up into heaven and made into perfect little angels. Well, that is what God wants us to be, why'd he create us as fallible humans with "free will" to begin with.

Who knows? 6000 years of philosophers have tried and failed to answer your question. It's not within our capacity or capability. It's certainly not going to be decided on a message board.

Then he leaves no evidence of his existence, and has apparently decided to go into hiding. If this deity had any shred of logic or virtue, wouldn't he make it perfectly clear who he is, make plain as day to everyone that he exists, and what we are supposed to do to avoid his wrath?

I understand your questions, but I find odd though that you think that if there was some kind of deity/imaginary friend/Creator of the Universe that he'd fit into your 21st century postmodern worldview of logic and virtue. Isn't that odd to you? Where do you get your concept of "virtue" from? As far as "making it plain as day", check out the Exodus of the Hebrews. He was an ever-present Pillar of Fire during the night, showing that He was there and providing them with heat in the desert cold, and a Pillar of Cloud during the day, showing that He was there and providing them shade. And sending down food every single day and water when they were thirsty. And STILL they thought that God left them when Moses went up the mountain and started making idols of other gods. Who's to say we're any better than they?

It's absurd, that we, in the 21st century, are still having a debate over this mythological character from 2,000 years ago.

Good questions. As it says in the Bible, "His ways are not our ways". But I don't think it's absurd at all to look at our origins, to attempt to understand more why humans are like they are, to look at our commonalities, and to help us explain why we are like we are. By all means, if you don't believe, you don't believe. No one's forcing you to be a Christian. If there's anything I can do to point you toward what I believe is Truth or explain why I believe what I do, let me know (can be in PM if you want).

 

[Sinobas]

You can label that "justice" Brian, but you're no different than the Muslim kooks that believe they are carrying out divine justice when they lop of women's heads for daring to be raped. But cutting of someone's head is not nearly as bad as burning them for eternity. You negate the right to feel any compassion for anyone about anything if everyone "deserves" to be burned for eternity.

Seriously, what kind of grotesque belief system puts such an idea in to people's minds.

 

[BrianFromWA]

There's a big difference, at least in my mind. One is God meting out justice for not following His commands...even when they're clearly laid out. One is a "kook" thinking he can interpret the will of his god and impose his own, human, sinful, imperfect will. Do you not see the difference? I'm not sending you anywhere...no priest or pastor is killing you. Your acceptance or rejection of God and His commands is entirely up to you. That's not the case with the Sharia law you're referencing. Do Christian pastors/priests maraud around, say, state-sponsored killing women for having abortions? Or men who commit adultery and divorce their wives? Or shoplift? Nothing close to that happens.

There are a bunch of "beliefs" that go into my worldview (which can be termed "reformed" or "fundamental" or whatever). One is that God created everything, including us. The second (which stems from that) is that in His world, He can make the rules, and He's told those rules to us (1. Love God perfectly. 2. Love others completely). The third is that we can't possibly live up to those rules on our own, and deserve any justice God desires to mete out on us. If your worldview doesn't allow you to accept or believe those things, then of course you're not going to "get" what the God of the Bible says about His Creation and Redemption. And like I've said, no one's forcing you to--unlike some "kooks" in other places.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

His ways are not our ways...

There is no way to validate a 5000 year old book as 'truth'. After all, it was written humans who claimed god talked to them. David Koresh said god talked to him and so does Jose Luis De Jesus Miranda. Today if you claim what these men did 5,000 years ago you would be put in a loony bin.

Is it not a blasphemous person who claims to know what god is thinking?

Is it not a blasphemous person who claims to have an ability to communicate with god?

Is it not a blasphemous person that claims to know what god likes or dislikes?

Is it not a blasphemous person who would justify placing himself or herself a the same level as god?

A lot of people believe in logic over blind faith. Do you know just how large 16% of the population is that are anti-religion?

United States by race:

Black: 12.3%
American Indian: 0.9%
Two or more races: 2.4%
Hispanic/Latin: 12.5%

 

[BrianFromWA]

I don't know what a definition of "blaspheme" is. Do I believe that the Septuagint canon of scripture are the words of God to men who write them down? Yes.

A lot of people think that they're being logical, and disparage those who believe something different, when in reality they're putting their faith in someone or thing that isn't (in their mind) the Creator of the Universe. I don't have all the answers. But not a lot of us do/

EDIT: Did Koresh and the others preach the God of the Bible and the redemption from our disobedience of God? Or did he put his own worldview under the guise of being a "man of God", lead people astray, live a life totally out of accordance with the two rules God gives us, and die unrepentant?

 

[mook]

I really wish they'd teach more christianity in schools like they did in England. My wife had years and years of drivel poured in her ear. Every single day in her publicly paid for education she had to sing a hymn, say the lord's prayer, and have to hear somebody give a short talk about god.

The net result? The English are far, far less religious than Americans, and my wife looks at my dabbling in being a devout Baptists for a few years in high school as some sort of novelty. She's an atheist.

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." - Thomas Jefferson

 

[BrianFromWA]

It's odd that you call it "drivel", and then quote Jefferson, a man who took all that "drivel", stripped away the stuff he didn't believe in, and call it...well, I'll let him say it.

We must reduce our volume to the simple evangelists, select, even from them, the very words only of Jesus, paring off the amphibologisms into which they have been led, by forgetting often, or not understanding, what had fallen from him, by giving their own misconceptions as his dicta, and expressing unintelligibly for others what they had not understood themselves. There will be found remaining the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man.

Unfortunately, no mortal can live up to those morals (All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God--Rom. 3:23). What happens when they don't? If your worldview is (like Jefferson's) that if you can't explain it, it's nonsense and misconception....then nothing, I guess, unless you're in a place whose laws have been written using a christian worldview. If you believe in the three parts I wrote about above, then it's different. ("For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord"-Rom 6:23). Like I said, it's useless to talk about Jesus and the doctrines of salvation and redemption if one thinks that they're the master of their own universe and live according to their own wants and wishes. But that's where society has progressed to at this point in history.

 

[BrianFromWA]

The part Jefferson never addresses (to my knowledge) was why he was putting so much stock in the "wisdom" of someone who claimed he was the Son of God...who claimed that through him was the single pathway to salvation from eternal suffering...who claimed that he would be killed and yet rise again in three days.

 

[Minstrel]

The part Jefferson never addresses (to my knowledge) was why he was putting so much stock in the "wisdom" of someone who claimed he was the Son of God...who claimed that through him was the single pathway to salvation from eternal suffering...who claimed that he would be killed and yet rise again in three days.

Use of reason. You neither blindly accept everything you hear/read, nor do you blindly reject everything. You take it all in, process it and keep what makes sense to you.

That's what Jefferson did. It's not that he had "faith" in Jesus. It's that the moral teachings of Jesus have a great deal of sense to them, if you subscribe to a belief of causing as little misery to others as possible (which is a lot of people's moral/ethical foundation, and doesn't require religion).

 

[BrianFromWA]

there seem to me to be a couple of flaws with that.

One, imo it only "has a great deal of sense" if you already believe that way. If you think, for instance, that it's ok to have sex with anyone you want to, then some guy claiming to be the Son of God and saying (Matthew 5:27 and 28) that

"whoever looks on a woman to lust after her (much less have sex with her) has already committed adultery in his heart. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out, because it is more profitable for you that one of your members should perish, and not your whole body be cast into hell"

sounds like a bunch of crazy talk. Unless you think that causing as little misery to others as possible was the boiled-down root of all Jesus' teaching, which is partially correct. His teachings of the commandments of God were 1) love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and 2) love others as yourself. Causing as little misery to others was only the second half of what Jesus taught. Why believe he's right on one and not the other? Why would his teachings cause a change in someone's attitude or action?

People's moral/ethical foundation straight from the womb is not to cause as little misery to others as possible. It's to look out for number one. Through societal indoctrination (in the west, mostly in a judeo-christian "drivel" way) and parenting, children are generally taught the "rules" and are forced to abide by laws that generally follow the judeo-christian ethic. Whether you think that's a good thing or not...I can't help you with that. But it seems illogical that someone making crazy claims will cause you to change your way of thinking about moral issues you have and believe in.