Politics F' Elon Musk!

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Rastapopoulos said:


England's greatest native-born NBA player (sorry Joel Freeland)?
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He certainly kickstarted the electric car boom. Which we're all benefiting from because China is polluting far less than it would be otherwise (other countries as well, but China's the big one).

And he definitely kickstarted the space economy. I don't think we would have reusable rockets without him.

The other stuff is also true. He's crazy. He's selfish. He's an ass.

But he often succeeds where other founders fail. That's tough to deny.
 
That is 100% accurate. I had to explain to someone that Apartheid Clyde is not the inventor of Telsa or Space X or Twitter...but they refused to believe me. It was sad.
 
Phatguysrule said:
He certainly kickstarted the electric car boom. Which we're all benefiting from because China is polluting far less than it would be otherwise (other countries as well, but China's the big one).

And he definitely kickstarted the space economy. I don't think we would have reusable rockets without him.

The other stuff is also true. He's crazy. He's selfish. He's an ass.

But he often succeeds where other founders fail. That's tough to deny.
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He didn't kick start shit.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Define "kickstart". You know he didn't found Tesla, right? Or Space-X? That's exactly what Amaechi is talking about.
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Tesla was shit before Musk got involved. It was barely a startup. The founders were driving that company into the ground.

SpaceX didn't even exist. It now puts 90% of mass into orbit every year at a fraction of the price of any other company, with a fraction of the waste.

Starlink didn't exist. Now we're looking at having cellular service worldwide with no dead spots anywhere in a matter of a year or two. That wasn't even on the table a decade ago.

julius said:
He didn't kick start shit.
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Yes he did.

He definitely has faults. But he is either incredibly lucky or incredibly good at getting very hard things done.
 
Phatguysrule said:
You almost have to to get that much money.
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"Almost"??? You have to be a literal psychopath to be sitting on that much money knowing the misery in the world. Billionaires are truly evil scum. Bring back the guillotines.

Why do we subscribe to this "great man" bullshit? What did Musk achieve that wouldn't have happened without him? And was it good? Tesla isn't even a particularly good electric car company, Space-X has allowed Republicans to starve NASA so Musk gets rich dumping TONS of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere with every launch, and Starlink is obnoxious space-pollution. "But it's bringing the internet to the developing world" - that's a good thing? We're all miserable and crazy because of the internet. And don't get me started about his Hyperloop scam.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Yes he did.

He definitely has faults. But he is either incredibly lucky or incredibly good at getting very hard things done.
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No he didn't.

 
Rastapopoulos said:
"Almost"??? You have to be a literal psychopath to be sitting on that much money knowing the misery in the world. Billionaires are truly evil scum. Bring back the guillotines.

Why do we subscribe to this "great man" bullshit? What did Musk achieve that wouldn't have happened without him? And was it good? Tesla isn't even a particularly good electric car company, Space-X has allowed Republicans to starve NASA so Musk gets rich dumping TONS of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere with every launch, and Starlink is obnoxious space-pollution. "But it's bringing the internet to the developing world" - that's a good thing? We're all miserable and crazy because of the internet. And don't get me started about his Hyperloop scam.
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Tesla made an electric car company the most valuable company in the world. That was a good thing.

I believe SpaceX has made NASA more competitive than it would have been otherwise. And I think it's important that the West be intimately involved in space colonization very soon. The more we can get out to space the better. That's going to have to come from corporations and not NASA. But NASA Will need to be involved and can help set it up to be a good endeavor for humanity rather than just a money grab by corporations.

I think starlink is a great thing. I think it's embarrassing that the US government didn't have that set up long ago. And I've said that before. Musk showed the world how to do it. Now I would like to make it a utility. Set up rules and let companies offer bandwidth. One company can maintain the hardware and other companies can sell the service. The way I would like internet to be managed in the United States.

I would encourage these billionaires to go out and show the way. Then I would reward them for succeeding. And then I would take it from them and use the newfound discovery or ability for the greater good. That's what government should be doing.

I like DARPA. The x prize.

I'm not miserable and crazy because the internet. I've been able to work from home for the last 7 years because of the internet. I've learned a ton on the internet.

I think these are good things for humanity as long as we keep them under control.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Tesla was shit before Musk got involved. It was barely a startup. The founders were driving that company into the ground.

SpaceX didn't even exist. It now puts 90% of mass into orbit every year at a fraction of the price of any other company, with a fraction of the waste.

Starlink didn't exist. Now we're looking at having cellular service worldwide with no dead spots anywhere in a matter of a year or two. That wasn't even on the table a decade ago.


Yes he did.

He definitely has faults. But he is either incredibly lucky or incredibly good at getting very hard things done.
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He supported Trump and everything else hinges on that fact. Nothing else matters here. Any achievements he may have had are negated by that fact. You cannot argue logic here if Trump is involved. He cannot have done anything good or correct ever. Godspeed making the argument though.
 
jonnyboy said:
He supported Trump and everything else hinges on that fact. Nothing else matters here. Any achievements he may have had are negated by that fact. You cannot argue logic here if Trump is involved. He cannot have done anything good or correct ever. Godspeed making the argument though.
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Trump is a flaming piece of shit. Certainly.

But I don't work that way.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
"Almost"??? You have to be a literal psychopath to be sitting on that much money knowing the misery in the world. Billionaires are truly evil scum. Bring back the guillotines.
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Is it just billionaires? How about hundred millionaires? What's the cutoff? How much wealth is a person permitted to have before they are "a literal psychopath"?
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Is it just billionaires? How about hundred millionaires? What's the cutoff? How much wealth is a person permitted to have before they are "a literal psychopath"?
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There’s no logic it’s just an angry rant. I bet Bill Gates would get a pardon from him.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Is it just billionaires? How about hundred millionaires? What's the cutoff? How much wealth is a person permitted to have before they are "a literal psychopath"?
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I think clearly billionaires. Probably slightly less likely for 100 millionaires. Slightly less still for 10 millionaires.

Probably down to about average for millionaires.
 
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THE HCP said:
I’m gonna have to go with Ben Gordon or Luol Deng FAMS!
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Ben Gordon was born in London but I don't think he grew up there, and he never played for Britain. Luol Deng was born in South Sudan, wasn't he? He DID grow up in the UK, though. He's British in the way that Giannis is Greek. Amaechi's 100% born and bred.

Deng's certainly the best player ever to play for the British National Team, no question. Isn't he in charge of South Sudan's team now?
 
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PtldPlatypus said:
Is it just billionaires? How about hundred millionaires? What's the cutoff? How much wealth is a person permitted to have before they are "a literal psychopath"?
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What do YOU think? One superyacht's okay but two is pushing it? Is this you saying "I'm not going to be made to feel guilty about buying my kid a new Playstation when people are starving in Yemen"?
 
Phatguysrule said:
Tesla made an electric car company the most valuable company in the world. That was a good thing.
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No, it's a stupid thing. Tesla did no such thing - the MARKET did that, and it's widely seen as completely irrational. How can a company that produces a tiny fraction of what the big companies produce (and not even as good - Musk is always driving the company to cut corners) be "worth" so much more?
 
Phatguysrule said:
I would encourage these billionaires to go out and show the way.
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I agree, so long as we're talking about that billionaire who went on that sub to the Titanic. And I definitely endorse Musk "showing us the way" to Mars as soon as possible.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
No, it's a stupid thing. Tesla did no such thing - the MARKET did that, and it's widely seen as completely irrational. How can a company that produces a tiny fraction of what the big companies produce (and not even as good - Musk is always driving the company to cut corners) be "worth" so much more?
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Because he built a car that actually broke safety ratings scales. That was a cool car. In 2023 the model Y sold more by some metrics than any other car in the world.

https://search.app/cARkG83jgnEvZ3Br8

You can say they suck but the people I know who own them love them.

Yes, the market did that. And Musk took advantage of that and forced other manufacturers to make more electric vehicles as well.

Once again, I'm not a fan of his, but to deny that he kickstarted the electric car market is just flat out wrong. They even made the best electric car charging system, and everyone is adopting it. That is now the standard.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
I agree, so long as we're talking about that billionaire who went on that sub to the Titanic. And I definitely endorse Musk "showing us the way" to Mars as soon as possible.
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Yeah, absolutely. Because we're learning as they do that. We're learning more than we would have otherwise.

Now, the submarine guy just taught us not to do that. There is a reason for those restrictions and regulations.

But the "cutting corners" that Musk does is actually often very smart mechanical engineering. Eliminating failure points and weak points. Eliminating inefficiencies.

Sometimes it goes too far. But the point is that he is pushing the envelope. That is what I'm giving him credit for.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Yeah, absolutely. Because we're learning as they do that. We're learning more than we would have otherwise.

Now, the submarine guy just taught us not to do that. There is a reason for those restrictions and regulations.

But the "cutting corners" that Musk does is actually often very smart mechanical engineering. Eliminating failure points and weak points. Eliminating inefficiencies.

Sometimes it goes too far. But the point is that he is pushing the envelope. That is what I'm giving him credit for.
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Wow, hope that Gatorade is worth it. Musk is certainly incredibly good at convincing people he's fucking Einstein crossed with Henry Ford.

Looking forward to the inevitable Trump-Elon blowup, and very happy about that clause in the constitution that says you can't be president if you're foreign-born.

I will concede one thing: it's not 100% Musk's fault he's a psychopath - his father was a real piece of work. And I'll admit he did at least one good thing: he made me quit Twitter and I've never regretted it.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Yes, the market did that. And Musk took advantage of that and forced other manufacturers to make more electric vehicles as well.
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And then turned around and spent $250 million helping get the "drill baby drill" guy get elected, who has promised to undercut all the measures Biden made to encourage electric car buying. It's almost as if he doesn't really care about the planet, huh.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Wow, hope that Gatorade is worth it. Musk is certainly incredibly good at convincing people he's fucking Einstein crossed with Henry Ford.

Looking forward to the inevitable Trump-Elon blowup, and very happy about that clause in the constitution that says you can't be president if you're foreign-born.

I will concede one thing: it's not 100% Musk's fault he's a psychopath - his father was a real piece of work.
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I'm not sure how any of this has anything to do with what I posted.

Musk's father is a piece of shit. So is his mother. Musk is pretty well a piece of shut as well... Except that he's actually pushed a lot of technologies forward further than they would have been without his actions.
 
Phatguysrule said:
he's actually pushed a lot of technologies forward further than they would have been without his actions.
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You have literally no way of knowing that, as you do not have access to the Multiverse. What we do know is that he's a horrible boss and his employees despise him and have contempt for him. Does he drive them to success? Well, imagine how much more success we'd have if we kidnapped their families and literally worked them to death! And hey, it's so fashionable to knock the Nazis nowadays but they really pushed the frontiers of research on twins.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
And then turned around and spent $250 million helping get the "drill baby drill" guy get elected, who has promised to undercut all the measures Biden made to encourage electric car buying. It's almost as if he doesn't really care about the planet, huh.
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Biden did everything he could to piss Musk off. I'm not sure why he did that. I don't know what that dynamic is about. But Biden is pretty well a piece of shit as well. Definitely not as big of a piece of shit as Trump.

But if you and your party are going to go out of your way to exclude and ignore the richest people in the world there are going to be consequences.

And unfortunately the system that we have encourages Musk to use what he has to further his goals. He has money, and he invested it in a way that could have a very big payoff for himself and his ambitions.

It really sucks that he destroyed Twitter (which really was the public square) and helped Trump get elected. Those are definitely some of the shitty things he's done.

But the real failure in Trump getting elected was the failure of the Democrats. They are supposed to be the ones protecting the people from these oligarchs.
 
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