Politics Facts vs opinion, lets define it a bit

[Orion Bailey]

care to explain why/how one is a fact?

make sure you understand the difference between fact and opinion before you respond calvin….

and why does the professional career of either matter??? Thats completely irrelevant.


noun. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.

One took out a full-page ad calling for the execution of the Central Park Five, said the KKK and white supremacist groups included "very fine people," welcomed the immigration from European countries but not Central America or the Middle East, called sub-Saharan Africa a bunch of "s-hole countries" and was sued by the Justice Department for racial discrimination in his housing developments.

The other was accused by one woman of rape 24 years ago, settled the case, and nothing has come out since connecting him to anything similar.

Just go to the OT section and if you want to know my feelings start there.

Have at it. Ill try my damnedest to be courteous and respectful.

okay lets break that down and show how this is your one sided opinion of these things.

There are felons who are also very fine people. I know for a fact by knowing one. Does that mean i support criminal behavior??? No.

tell me, what percentage of the population of europe openly displays hatred for the united states? Now how many in the middle east? How many hijackings and terrorist acts against the us has been commited by europeans vs middle easterners?
To say its wrong of him to generalize is one thing. But to say he is racist because he tightened up immigration from states and countries that openly display hatred for the united states does not mean he us racist.
He was sued. What was the verdict? If he wasnt found guilty its irrelevant.
No different than Billups.

Nothing you have said has been direct valid evidence. Only your viewpoint and opinion which many portray due to a personal hatred or something…

There are more viewpoints to be seen than the one that suits your narrative.

with that said we probably need to take this to the OT or refrain from further discussions in this thread about this. I should have assumed this would likely get larger than a quick question and answer from calvin and I.

 

[PCmor7]

This is hard to reply to because everything was listed as a quote.

First, you aren't even trying to be courteous and respectful if you start out by saying something is my "one-sided view of things" and then talk about my "personal hatred." You don't know me, so stop assuming things.

You asked what was the difference. I gave you the difference. I didn't give you opinions. The points I made about Trump are documented facts and quotes. Those aren't opinions. Yes, there is evidence he said and did them. Unless you deal in alternative facts.

Moving goalposts and talking about felons as "very fine people" doesn't change that he said it nor remove the context he said it in. The same with talking about Europeans who openly display hatred for the United States.

Good lord, you asked for a difference and I gave it to you. Again, not generalizations and not opinions. A list ... and let me note it was a partial list at that ... of things he said and did. I didn't pull out one thing and then opine on it. He has a long history and that's all taken into account ... that's the biggest point of all. There's a pattern of his doing this. Billups has no pattern.

So take your ideas of what I might or might not think and shove them. Don't like the truth? Too bad. You asked a question, I answered it in good faith. Then you go on some insane diatribe and get the thread moved to the OT.

Do me a favor. Next time you want to respond to me about something, don't. I don't have time for nonsense and bad-faith discussions. And in a hard-to-read format on top of everything.

 

[Orion Bailey]

This is hard to reply to because everything was listed as a quote.

First, you aren't even trying to be courteous and respectful if you start out by saying something is my "one-sided view of things" and then talk about my "personal hatred." You don't know me, so stop assuming things.

You asked what was the difference. I gave you the difference. I didn't give you opinions. The points I made about Trump are documented facts and quotes. Those aren't opinions. Yes, there is evidence he said and did them. Unless you deal in alternative facts.

Moving goalposts and talking about felons as "very fine people" doesn't change that he said it nor remove the context he said it in. The same with talking about Europeans who openly display hatred for the United States.

Good lord, you asked for a difference and I gave it to you. Again, not generalizations and not opinions. A list ... and let me note it was a partial list at that ... of things he said and did. I didn't pull out one thing and then opine on it. He has a long history and that's all taken into account ... that's the biggest point of all. There's a pattern of his doing this. Billups has no pattern.

So take your ideas of what I might or might not think and shove them. Don't like the truth? Too bad. You asked a question, I answered it in good faith. Then you go on some insane diatribe and get the thread moved to the OT.

Do me a favor. Next time you want to respond to me about something, don't. I don't have time for nonsense and bad-faith discussions. And in a hard-to-read format on top of everything.

are you serious with this shit? You quoted me asking calvin something and then tell me to not talk to you?

wtf man…

the differences you gave were stull your viewpoint of the topic. I pointed out i, and others have a different viewpoint. At thst point there is nothign making it factual he is racist. Its a matter of opinion based on a viewpoint. A stance.
You can get all angry at me for pointing it out. Doesn't make it any less real. Real in that you are asserting your opinion as the only valid opinion and im telling you there is more than your opinion of it that can make sense.
You want to get offended by that thats on you. I told calvin i would be as respectful as possible to him.

dont interject yourself into someone else's convo and then bitch about it not going your way. I mean really….

Now im totally open to starting over and attempting a constructive conversation, l but that entails not getting offended by being told your stance on an instance is an opinion, proven by me explaining there can be an alternative stance.

We gotta have thicker skin than this man…

 

[calvin natt]

Lol thicker skin ok

 

[Orion Bailey]

There is a difference between saying someone said or did something is a fact and saying why they said or did it is a fact.

Im sorry making that clear is so offending…

 

[Orion Bailey]

Lol thicker skin ok

yes. We all need to have thicker skin. Get it? We?

now you done trying to mock me and want to get on with something hopefully productive and educational?

you asked me to take it to OT and here we are.

 

[calvin natt]

yes. We all need to have thicker skin. Get it? We?

now you done trying to mock me and want to get on with something hopefully productive and educational?

you asked me to take it to OT and here we are.

OB, really, damn near every time you come in here you get mad about something or someone. At least save your anger for when Carmelo barfs up 10 mid rangers in their opening game next season

 

[Orion Bailey]

OB, really, damn near every time you come in here you get mad about something or someone. At least save your anger for when Carmelo barfs up 10 mid rangers in their opening game next season

Calvin, you asked me to the OT. And now all you have is to talk about me? Im not mad. But i could say i do get frustrated when this is the type of response i get when attempting to have a real conversation.
I mean again. You asked me here man. But now that we're here you wont discuss and use me as an excuse as to why? Why did you ask me to take it to OT to discuss then?

 

[calvin natt]

Calvin, you asked me to the OT. And now all you have is to talk about me? Im not mad. But i could say i do get frustrated when this is the type of response i get when attempting to have a real conversation.
I mean again. You asked me here man. But now that we're here you wont discuss and use me as an excuse as to why? Why did you ask me to take it to OT to discuss then?

No I told you to GO to the OT and research for yourself all of my thoughts on Trump. I’m not talking about that fuckwad in here. And no need to talk more about fat ass there either but if you want the transcripts help yourself.

 

[Lanny]

This is hard to reply to because everything was listed as a quote.

First, you aren't even trying to be courteous and respectful if you start out by saying something is my "one-sided view of things" and then talk about my "personal hatred." You don't know me, so stop assuming things.

You asked what was the difference. I gave you the difference. I didn't give you opinions. The points I made about Trump are documented facts and quotes. Those aren't opinions. Yes, there is evidence he said and did them. Unless you deal in alternative facts.

Moving goalposts and talking about felons as "very fine people" doesn't change that he said it nor remove the context he said it in. The same with talking about Europeans who openly display hatred for the United States.

Good lord, you asked for a difference and I gave it to you. Again, not generalizations and not opinions. A list ... and let me note it was a partial list at that ... of things he said and did. I didn't pull out one thing and then opine on it. He has a long history and that's all taken into account ... that's the biggest point of all. There's a pattern of his doing this. Billups has no pattern.

So take your ideas of what I might or might not think and shove them. Don't like the truth? Too bad. You asked a question, I answered it in good faith. Then you go on some insane diatribe and get the thread moved to the OT.

Do me a favor. Next time you want to respond to me about something, don't. I don't have time for nonsense and bad-faith discussions. And in a hard-to-read format on top of everything.

If you didn't say "... take your ideas of what I might or might not think and shove them." I could agree with you.

 

[Orion Bailey]

No I told you to GO to the OT and research for yourself all of my thoughts on Trump. I’m not talking about that fuckwad in here. And no need to talk more about fat ass there either but if you want the transcripts help yourself.

no Calvin. What you actually said was this…..

“Just go to the OT section and if you want to know my feelings start there.”

Nothing says research myself.
See this is the type of miscommunication that often happens.
But somehow its almost always on me and.. yeah….

i also find it funny you claiming i come in here mad at someone or something when its you who is exhibiting anger and frankly some tds. The dudes not in office anymore but yet you aren't able ti talk about him because it infuriates you so.

maybe much my frustration has been about this type twisting of words where people get mad at me because im suppose to be a mind reader and just know you meant to say piss off and go do the research my self, when you actually said go to the OT and start there.

I hope you see the vagueness in your comment led to a misunderstanding that apparently i was just supposed to know what you meant.

i hope this isnt how you relay messages and news about the Blazers….

 

[Orion Bailey]

Ill also add that many seem to be mixing up two things.
Its fine to develop an opinion based on facts but that does not make the opinion factual and it seems this is the stance many take when discussing this topic.

“ my opinion of his action is it was a racist action” is not a fact. It is an opinion when discussing the actions listed above.

now i would agree that if he was caught with a hood on attending a kkk rally that its fair to come to the opinion that, at the least, he supports racists.
However to vote for someone who attended a kkk rally with a hoody on, does not mean that voter supports racism.
This stretch of opinion has often been conveyed as fact and that is simply wrong. Further more, it seems many, when presented with this information, then get angry.

“Take your opinion and shove it.”

these same people who exhibit agro behavior anytime someone informs them thier opinion is not a fact, is somewhat disturbing.