Politics FBI ‘investigating whether Russian money went to NRA’s campaign to help elect Donald Trump’

[SlyPokerDog]

Activists are demanding the National Rifle Association (NRA) reveal if it received donations from Russia, after it was reported the FBI is investigating whether a Kremlin-linked Moscowbusinessman channelled money to the group’s campaign to help Donald Trump win the election.

With the influence of the NRA under mounting scrutiny following a school shooting in Florida and the campaign led by students to change the country’s gun laws, campaigners say it is vital that investigators uncover if the powerful lobbying group group used any Russian money to help elect Republican members of Congress and Mr Trump during the 2016 race. It is against the law to use foreign money in federal election campaigns.

It was recently reported the FBI was focusing its attention on Alexander Torshin, a former member of the upper house of Russia’s parliament and currently deputy governor of Russia’s central bank, who is said to have a close relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin. The 64-year-old gun enthusiast is also said to be a Life Member of the NRA.

Since McClatchy News first reported Mr Torshin and the loan were being investigated, campaigners have been seeking to pressure the NRA to come clean about its funding.

Kristin Brown, co-president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, told The Independent that the NRA, which was founded in 1871 as a recreational group designed to “promote and encourage rifle shooting on a scientific basis”, today got most of its funding from gun manufacturers.

“NRA members should be outraged if even a portion of this alarming story is true. The NRA tells its members that it defends America’s freedoms,” she said of the McClatchy News report.

“If the NRA is actually a front for Russian interests and interfered with our elections, actively or passively, then they have undermined the very democratic freedoms they purport to represent. We can only wonder how many true patriots will decide that this is the last straw and give up their NRA memberships.”

...

The NRA spent a record $55m during the 2016 election cycle, directing money towards campaigns and adverts supporting members of congress it judged to be most supportive of its aims and polities. Senator Marco Rubio, who this week was publicly challenged by a Florida shooting survivor to vow to refuse to take NRA money, has received at least $3.3m from the NRA during his career, the sixth most of the current members of Congress. During the 2016 election, the NRA scored Mr Rubio “A+”, its highest ranking.

The largest amount of money from the NRA in 2016, a total of $30m, went to Mr Trump. It helped pay for advertisements supporting his campaign and attacking that of his Democratic rival, Hillary Clinton. The money was spent by a wing of the NRA that is not legally obligated to reveal who its donors are.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...estigation-mueller-banker-money-a8225581.html

 

[MarAzul]

If a Russian donated to the NRA, is that illegal?

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

If a Russian donated to the NRA, is that illegal?

Nah. They just thought it was the National Russians Association

 

[theprunetang]

If a Russian donated to the NRA, is that illegal?

Not in and of itself. First, where did the money originate? The source of the original seed money is important in this context. Secondly, was any of this money redirected from the NRA to a political campaign? I don't have the answers, because I am not privy to the inner workings of the investigation. And neither are you.

We are all in a bit of a "wait and see mode".

 

[SlyPokerDog]

If a Russian donated to the NRA, is that illegal?

I believe it would depend on what the NRA did with the money. If they used it to buy guns then that would be okay. If they used it to support political candidates then that would be very illegal.

 

[MarAzul]

Not in and of itself. First, where did the money originate? The source of the original seed money is important in this context. Secondly, was any of this money redirected from the NRA to a political campaign? I don't have the answers, because I am not privy to the inner workings of the investigation. And neither are you.

We are all in a bit of a "wait and see mode".

No I am not privy! But it does seem to me that a crime should be what is investigated. WTF is the crime?

 

[MarAzul]

I believe it would depend on what the NRA did with the money. If they used it to buy guns then that would be okay. If they used it to support political candidates then that would be very illegal.

What law?

I mean the IRA gets donations from many places and people. They also donate to many candidates. If one donor is a Russian are all donations illegal?

What if the donor is from Mexico?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

No I am not privy! But it does seem to me that a crime should be what is investigated. WTF is the crime?

Foreign citizens or governments can not donate to political candidates.

Even if it's a candidate you love and support.

 

[MarAzul]

Foreign citizens or governments can not donate to political candidates.

Even if it's a candidate you love and support.

Answer the questions asked.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Answer the questions asked.

https://www.fec.gov/updates/foreign-nationals/

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Answer the questions asked.

Well, it’s illegal.

The Federal Election Campaign Act states in unambiguous terms that any contribution by a foreign national to the campaign of an American candidate for any election, state or national, is illegal. Likewise, anyone who receives, solicits, or accepts these contributions also violates the statute. Foreign national, in this case, means anybody not a US citizen that doesn’t have a green card.

What happens if someone violates the act?

They get fined, mostly. In 1975, Congress created the Federal Election Commission (FEC) to enforce the Federal Election Campaign Act, bestowing on it exclusive jurisdiction over civil enforcement of the act. In other words, they charge people money for breaking the law.

In theory, the “knowing and willing” acceptance of foreign contributions can result in jail time. To do this, the FEC needs to refer its case to the Department of Justice. This rarely happens. As of last year, in the FEC’s forty-year history, it has recommended only 22 cases to the Department of Justice. The DOJ, however, can seek out and prosecute these cases on its own.

Are there any major examples of foreign contributions to US elections?

One of the largest and more interesting scandals involving foreign contributions to a presidential election involves the Democratic Party, Bill Clinton, the China’s People Liberation Party, Al Gore, and a Californian Buddhist monastery. The FEC documents describe fundraising attempts by members of the DNC that set prices so foreign nationals could meet with President Clinton and Vice President Gore. In response to these findings, the FEC imposed a civil penalty on the DNC, the International Buddhist Progress Society, and various other actors for a cumulative total of $719,500.

 

[MarAzul]

https://www.fec.gov/updates/foreign-nationals/

"Despite the general prohibition on foreign national contributions and donations, foreign nationals may lawfully engage in political activity that is not connected with any election to political office at the federal, state, or local levels."

 

[SlyPokerDog]

"Despite the general prohibition on foreign national contributions and donations, foreign nationals may lawfully engage in political activity that is not connected with any election to political office at the federal, state, or local levels."

And that's why is in the investigation phase.

If Russia wrote in the little memo part of the check, "For Donald Trump's president campaign. MAGA!" then it's a problem. If they just gave millions of dollars to the NRA without any conditions at all then it's not illegal.

 

[MarAzul]

And that's why is in the investigation phase.

If Russia wrote in the little memo part of the check, "For Donald Trump's president campaign. MAGA!" then it's a problem. If they just gave millions of dollars to the NRA without any conditions at all then it's not illegal.

Thank you Sly. Seems like a good answer.
But the question is still there, WTF is the government doing investigating without evidence or knowledge of a crime? That is a loose cannon on deck!
This is exactly what Clinton organization did and nothing. But they investigate NRA?

 

[theprunetang]

Thank you Sly. Seems like a good answer.
But the question is still there, WTF is the government doing investigating without evidence or knowledge of a crime? That is a loose cannon on deck!
This is exactly what Clinton organization did and nothing. But they investigate NRA?

It's called due diligence. If there are questions about foreign payments that possibly went to political campaigns, they should be investigated. Not as a witch hunt but with due diligence in mind. Remember, neither of us are privy to the investigation. We don't know everything they know. How about just letting it play out? Let's find out if everything was legal or illegal. There is nothing wrong with finding the truth. If the investigation finds no wrong doing, cool. I'm not on a rampage seeking blood. If the investigation finds illegal activity on either side of the isle, throw the book at them. I'm not sure how you could personally disagree with this notion.

 

[MarAzul]

It's called due diligence. If there are questions about foreign payments that possibly went to political campaigns, they should be investigated. Not as a witch hunt but with due diligence in mind. Remember, neither of us are privy to the investigation. We don't know everything they know. How about just letting it play out? Let's find out if everything was legal or illegal. There is nothing wrong with finding the truth. If the investigation finds no wrong doing, cool. I'm not on a rampage seeking blood. If the investigation finds illegal activity on either side of the isle, throw the book at them. I'm not sure how you could personally disagree with this notion.

Well let us look at it in a more personal view. You need not answer, I only ask your to consider it..... Do you want the FBI to come check your affairs, your books, your what ever, to see if you did anything illegal? The government has the power to do this until you are broken and cannot comply. Is that right?
Of course not. It should not be the way we enforce the law.

 

[Cippy91]

Damn, people are still trying to connect trump to russia after a year? jesus

 

[riverman]

Do you want the FBI to come check your affairs, your books, your what ever, to see if you did anything illegal?

the point is people doing things illegally don't want to be checked up on...which is why people who are not doing things illegally are not being investigated and if they were, they've nothing to hide from.

 

[MarAzul]

the point is people doing things illegally don't want to be checked up on...which is why people who are not doing things illegally are not being investigated and if they were, they've nothing to hide from.

Sigh!

 

[riverman]

Sigh!

it's really so simple...this is a money trail...it's exposing patterns of illegal practices. what you would call draining the swamp..I expect we're going to see a snowballing of exposure of hidden corrupt conduct when this is all over. I look forward to where all these lead...we all should.

 

[barfo]

So on the one hand, you've got Trump's campaign chair and deputy engaging in bank fraud during the campaign.

On the other hand, you've got MarAzul saying the real scandal is that they weren't allowed to get away with it.

barfo

 

[SlyPokerDog]

So on the one hand, you've got Trump's campaign chair and deputy engaging in bank fraud during the campaign.

On the other hand, you've got MarAzul saying the real scandal is that they weren't allowed to get away with it.

barfo

Sometimes good guys have to do bad things.

 

[MARIS61]

The blood of schoolchildren on their hands, they continue their coup.

 

[MarAzul]

These endless investigations with out clear evidence of a crime, allegations only by the political opposition exposed a hole in our system.
If you can investigate endlessly for evidence of a crime, and you are never required to seek the approval of a judge, this is a an error in the system.
In our federal system the investigations and prosecutions are conducted by the executive branch which is of course headed by the President.
He of course can not be arrested for subsequent prosecution, he can only be impeached, so no judge is require to issue an order for his arrest.
He can not (by liberal opinion) interfere with and investigations, so and investigation can proceed indefinitely with out any oversight in the chain of command responsible to the people.

Multiple investigations without evidence can proceed endlessly and it appears this is exactly the game in progress.

Where does prosecution or investigation in hope of prosecution, get check from becoming persecution?
Persecution with Sedition being the intent?

Bad hole in this system.

 

[South East]

These endless investigations with out clear evidence of a crime, allegations only by the political opposition exposed a hole in our system.
If you can investigate endlessly for evidence of a crime, and you are never required to seek the approval of a judge, this is a an error in the system.
In our federal system the investigations and prosecutions are conducted by the executive branch which is of course headed by the President.
He of course can not be arrested for subsequent prosecution, he can only be impeached, so no judge is require to issue an order for his arrest.
He can not (by liberal opinion) interfere with and investigations, so and investigation can proceed indefinitely with out any oversight in the chain of command responsible to the people.

Multiple investigations without evidence can proceed endlessly and it appears this is exactly the game in progress.

Where does prosecution or investigation in hope of prosecution, get check from becoming persecution?
Persecution with Sedition being the intent?

Bad hole in this system.

Am I missing something??? Didn’t people plead guilty to a crime and both memos released stated that a federal judge approved the warrants for wiretapping. To say it’s an endless investigation with no crime seems false. Ultimately it looks like they have been investigating people who have committed crimes and they are following the trail.

You can say they have a preconceived endgame if you feel inclined but to say there has been no crime...

They haven’t even talked to Trump so how can it be said there is no proof of a crime? I’m sure that would help wrap it up.

 

[Denny Crane]

It's an endless investigation with no crime.

Here's the crime. They really ought to throw leaders of this group in prison if they are found to be maliciously using the legal system over conspiracy theories proven to be not true.

Consider the source of the complain.

Jan 29:

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/29/5814...en-nra-and-russia-becomes-fodder-for-the-left

A liberal group is filing a complaint with the Federal Election Commission on Monday to demand an investigation into whether the National Rifle Association took contributions from Russians, which would be a violation of the law.

The American Legal Democracy Fund, a group with ties to liberal Super PAC American Bridge and headed by former DNC spokesman Brad Woodhouse, filed this complaint in response to reporting by McClatchy earlier this month. The report indicated the FBI is investigating whether a Russian banker with ties to the Kremlin illegally funneled money to the NRA in order to aid President Donald Trump's campaign.

 

[MarAzul]

federal judge approved the warrants for wiretapping.

Remember when it was the joke about town, when Trump said, we have been wiretapped?

NO! never happened! The clown doesn't even know wiretapping does not happen in this day!

But not the guy that was wire tapped you find as prove of evidence. A guy swept up as a result of an investigation without evidence, but a wiretap was ordered, then an American was unmasked. Then the info is leaked, a crime, perhaps the only damn crime. WTF????
I suspect if there was ever reason to lie to the FBI, this would be the time to tell them to GFY and let that serve as the lie. Weird shit happening here
You can not be compelled to incriminate yourself which means for damn sure you can lie, but not to the FBI? Find that in the 5th! Then the only reason he is here is due to leaks about his unmasking in a wiretap when no evidence has supported causes. I find it totally unacceptable and I want the lot of them in fucking jail for one hell of a long spell.

 

[barfo]

Remember when it was the joke about town, when Trump said, we have been wiretapped?

NO! never happened! The clown doesn't even know wiretapping does not happen in this day!

But not the guy that was wire tapped you find as prove of evidence. A guy swept up as a result of an investigation without evidence, but a wiretap was ordered, then an American was unmasked. Then the info is leaked, a crime, perhaps the only damn crime. WTF????
I suspect if there was ever reason to lie to the FBI, this would be the time to tell them to GFY and let that serve as the lie. Weird shit happening here
You can not be compelled to incriminate yourself which means for damn sure you can lie, but not to the FBI? Find that in the 5th! Then the only reason he is here is due to leaks about his unmasking in a wiretap when no evidence has supported causes. I find it totally unacceptable and I want the lot of them in fucking jail for one hell of a long spell.

I think you aren't paying attention to the facts. Unmasking has literally nothing to do with this. The FBI started its investigation because of the actions of the Trump campaign staff, not because of any unmasking.

As for the lack of evidence, you seem confused about how law enforcement and warrants work. The standard is probable cause, not proof. If they already had proof they wouldn't ever need a warrant. And they definitely did have probable cause...

Good news - the 'lot of them' are going to be in fucking jail. Bad news for you - 'them' is Trump campaign staff, not law enforcement.

barfo

 

[MarAzul]

I think you aren't paying attention to the facts. Unmasking has literally nothing to do with this. The FBI started its investigation because of the actions of the Trump campaign staff, not because of any unmasking.

As for the lack of evidence, you seem confused about how law enforcement and warrants work. The standard is probable cause, not proof. If they already had proof they wouldn't ever need a warrant. And they definitely did have probable cause...

Good news - the 'lot of them' are going to be in fucking jail. Bad news for you - 'them' is Trump campaign staff, not law enforcement.

barfo

Yes, yes! Do you remember laughing your dumb ass off about Trump Saying they were Wiretapped?

 

[barfo]

Yes, yes! Do you remember laughing your dumb ass off about Trump Saying they were Wiretapped?

Yes I do. And I still am laughing, but now I'm laughing at you.

If you haven't noticed, nobody except Carter Page was wiretapped (so far as we know now), and Carter Page was not part of the campaign at that point.

So basically you are claiming that Trump saying he was wiretapped really meant 'a guy who used to work for me and is a Russian stooge was later wiretapped'.

That's pretty thin biscuit, even for a sailing man.

barfo