Fiscal cliff

[Denny Crane]

Economists point to the expiring Bush tax cuts and mandatory spending cuts and say that we're likely to suffer a second recession.

Well, duh. If you take $500B out of the $15T economy (GDP), it's a 3.33% hit to GDP and GDP is growing less than 2%. So you are going to get 2% - 3.33% GDP growth or -1.33%. Two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth (-1.33%) and it's a recession by definition.

For you government lovers, $500B given to a govt. that borrows $.42 of every $1 it spends means govt. spending will likely go up near $1T per year and deficits will skyrocket. The deficit is already absurdly high. Govt. isn't going to sock that $500B away, it's going to spend it. The debt will not decrease by $.01, get it?

This raises the obvious question:

If taking $500B out of the economy is such a bad thing, why take ANY out of the economy? Taxing the rich is what Reid and Obama say they intend to do to avoid the cliff.

Seems to me Obama's taken that car Bush drove into the ditch and got it running on 1 cylinder, disabled the brakes, and is now driving it towards the cliff.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

perfect case of creating policy based on an ideal rather than reality

 

[maxiep]

I'm beginning to think the American people need to feel the impact of their electoral decisions. Let it burn, I say. You want big government? Pay for it.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

I'm beginning to think the American people need to feel the impact of their electoral decisions. Let it burn, I say. You want big government? Pay for it.

man, as you know Maxiep,in the past there have always been other factors that in spite of poor policy, we could continue to prosper eventualy, after the war between the states, there was a large production capacity available, after the crash of the 30s, there were still idle plants that would begin to produce war material on the lend lease and even some agreements before..

we are on new ground for this country..there is nothing to stop its demise, and "we" are ignoring the examples that have been set by spain and greece..

 

[MickZagger]

I'm beginning to think the American people need to feel the impact of their electoral decisions. Let it burn, I say. You want big government? Pay for it.

So now your anti-American? Gotcha.

 

[maxiep]

So now your anti-American? Gotcha.

I stand for the Constitution and limited government. This ain't it. Good luck. Time to pay your bills, Zag.

 

[MickZagger]

I stand for the Constitution and limited government. This ain't it. Good luck. Time to pay your bills, Zag.

If this is a popular sentiment among you Republican's than it just goes to show how patriotic you really are. The majority of your people have voted and they agree in the progressive approach to government. Get used to it, or GTFO! Sweden wants you back.

 

[maxiep]

If this is a popular sentiment among you Republican's than it just goes to show how patriotic you really are. The majority of your people have voted and they agree in the progressive approach to government. Get used to it, or GTFO! Sweden wants you back.

Oh, I've accepted it. I'm not paying what I did anymore as I won't be generating the same kind of income or capital gains. It's REIT-land for me! You're a single guy making $80-100K with no writeoffs? LOL. Enjoy your new tax rates. I'll be fine; you'll be paying out your ass.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Guys, Obamacare covers butt-hurt, I think.

 

[MickZagger]

Guys, Obamacare covers butt-hurt, I think.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

If this is a popular sentiment among you Republican's than it just goes to show how patriotic you really are. The majority of your people have voted and they agree in the progressive approach to government. Get used to it, or GTFO! Sweden wants you back.

the shit is giong to hit the fan at the rate "the majority" keep up their "progressive" approach

oh and nice "liberal" attitude there pffft "gtfo" really?

 

[MickZagger]

Why are you quoting "the majority"? Do you not understand what context quotations are used in?

When your country has voted to the left the past two elections, I'd say thats the majority.

 

[maxiep]

Guys, Obamacare covers butt-hurt, I think.

It will first have to be approved by the Independent Payment Advisory Board. And then they'll be at least a six-month wait.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I'm beginning to think the American people need to feel the impact of their electoral decisions. Let it burn, I say. You want big government? Pay for it.

That's what I think as well.

 

[Denny Crane]

Everyone is going to be butthurt from how much lighter their wallets are going to be.

Laugh it up. The chickens will come home to roost. When they do, you're going to be really sorry.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Serious question for you, Mick...

I know I asked something similar before, but you've been pretty open with your job/benefits/etc....do you not consider yourself upper-middle class? I mean, someone with whose job+benefits+pension contributions is close to (if not well over) 100K? Who do you think is going to have to start footing major portions of the bill in the next 10 years?

 

[MickZagger]

Taxes don't bother me. If everyone in my same wage scale is getting tarnished the same then whatever.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Fair enough.

 

[blazerboy30]

Taxes don't bother me. If everyone in my same wage scale is getting tarnished the same then whatever.

Serious question: What effective tax rate are you willing to pay?

 

[MickZagger]

Serious question: What effective tax rate are you willing to pay?

You over-analyze my biography.

 

[maxiep]

You over-analyze my biography.

It's a simple question. Why won't you answer it?

 

[blazerboy30]

You over-analyze my biography.

There is no "right" answer. I'm curious what your number is.

What effective tax rate are you willing to pay?

 

[magnifier661]

Taxes don't bother me. If everyone in my same wage scale is getting tarnished the same then whatever.

That's a very anti-left wing statement by you.

 

[magnifier661]

Butt hurt republicans? Maybe on an emotional level; but people act as though only the upper class are republican. And this talk that the majority voted left for two elections?! Do you remember that the majority voted right wing two elections before.

And before you say "well look where it got them?": I suspect that will be the same argument we will have towards the left wing after this term. I am suspecting insane amounts of inflation and the eventual take hikes on other income levels. Probably going to happen in a couple years.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Everywhere you look, fair-weather tax haters are abandoning the wealthy. Republican House Speaker John Boehner, champion of "job creators," now says he's open to "new tax revenue" to help balance the federal budget. The uber-conservative William Kristol, editor of the Weekly Standard, said recently on Fox News, "It won't kill the country if Republicans raise taxes a little bit on millionaires." A group of pesky agitators called "patriotic millionaires" is even descending on Washington, to badger legislators into raising their own taxes, for the supposed good of the country.

This all comes, of course, after President Barack Obama, campaigning on his plan to raise taxes on the wealthy, convincingly beat challenger Mitt Romney, whose tax plan called for cutting everybody's taxes by 20 percent

There used to be a saying that you couldn't win an election on a campaign to raise taxes. If ever there is a time to raise taxes in the US, it is when a president runs a campaign to raise taxes and wins coupled with the current economic situation.

 

[tlongII]

It's not about raising taxes. It's about cutting spending.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

It's not about raising taxes. It's about cutting spending.

It's about both . . . even conservatives are seeing the need to raise taxes

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I read today that if we go with the Obama plan (fiscal cliff) we will not only continue the 4 year old recession, but probably fall into a depression. This is getting serious.

 

[maxiep]

Here's my position: We shouldn't consider raising taxes on anyone until we have first exhausted all expense reductions in the Federal Government. Do we really think the Federal Government runs as efficiently as it should? What about State and Local governments?

And when we do raise taxes, EVERYONE gets their taxes raised, even if it's just a penny on the lower end. We're all in this together. As long as people continue to vote themselves benefits and put it on someone else's tab, we will remain a country divided.

 

[blazerboy30]

It's about both . . . even conservatives are seeing the need to raise taxes

Not trying to be snarky, but how much additional revenue do you think will be created by increasing taxes on the "rich"?