Game Ball, Lame Ball

[GMJ]

<div align="center">

<div align='left'>Game Ball - Marcus (Way to continue your output while coming off the bench young man)
Lame Ball - I didn't see the game. With that disclaimer out of the way I'm going to say the rest of our bench. Maybe they were really really really really really good defensively; enough to make up for not rebounding or not scoring; at all.
</div> </div>

 

[AGGiE]

Game Ball: Darell Armstrong

Lame Ball: Everyone who played.

 

[Netsfan318]

Game Ball: Marcus Williams, Vince Carter

Lame Ball: RJ, De-VIN HARRIS !!! (clap,clap, clapclapclap), Trenton Hassell

Bitch Ball: Josh Boone

 

[Universe]

Game ball - Marcus Williams

Lame ball - Vince Carter

 

[purplehaze89]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Mar 5 2008, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Game ball - Marcus Williams

Lame ball - Vince Carter</div>

I get the Game ball, but explain how the only other contributor to the team last night got the Lame Ball? That doesn't make any sense.

Game ball - Marcus, VC,

Lame ball - Richard Jefferson, Devin Harris

 

[Universe]

Played 42 minutes and didn't hit one three. Only scored 19 points in those 42 minutes and everytime we got it close, he took a stupid fade away.

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Mar 5 2008, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Played 42 minutes and didn't hit one three. Only scored 19 points in those 42 minutes and everytime we got it close, he took a stupid fade away.</div>

That's a signature VC move. Can't argue with that.

 

[Universe]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 5 2008, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Mar 5 2008, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Played 42 minutes and didn't hit one three. Only scored 19 points in those 42 minutes and everytime we got it close, he took a stupid fade away.</div>

That's a signature VC move. Can't argue with that.
</div>
You can when he misses four in a row yet when he drives, he scores.

 

[JCB]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Mar 5 2008, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 5 2008, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Mar 5 2008, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Played 42 minutes and didn't hit one three. Only scored 19 points in those 42 minutes and everytime we got it close, he took a stupid fade away.</div>

That's a signature VC move. Can't argue with that.
</div>
You can when he misses four in a row yet when he drives, he scores.
</div>

It's not that easy to drive. People can bitch and complain about the shots VC takes and beg and plead that he drive everytime he touches the ball, but it's simply not possible. Teams know he scores when he drives, so they plan for it and make him take tougher shots. The Spurs are the best in the league at doing that and it showed last night.

 

[furnace]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Mar 5 2008, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 5 2008, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Mar 5 2008, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Played 42 minutes and didn't hit one three. Only scored 19 points in those 42 minutes and everytime we got it close, he took a stupid fade away.</div>

That's a signature VC move. Can't argue with that.
</div>
You can when he misses four in a row yet when he drives, he scores.
</div>


You forget that this is the Vince Carter Homer Board. He can do no wrong. Logic does not apply on this message board.

No matter how many times I have statistically proven (through time stamped shot logs cross referenced to a taped game) that Vince Carter shoots better when he steps forward into a shot, people here think that fade aways are "his signature move" or that he "naturally fades away when he shoots" etc.

 

[Jizzy]

lame ball - rj for calling out marcus and then sucking again


game ball - the spurs

 

[NOMAM]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Mar 5 2008, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Played 42 minutes and didn't hit one three. Only scored 19 points in those 42 minutes and everytime we got it close, he took a stupid fade away.</div>

What?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>You can when he misses four in a row yet when he drives, he scores.</div>

What?

The only one who managed to be a threat from 3 yesterday was Marcus who was 3-5. Carter was 0-4, RJ was 0-2, and Harris was 1-6. How the hell do you single out Carter for lameball because of that and ignore that he was the only other effective Net on offense besides Marcus?

And what are you talking about that everytime they got it close he took a stupid fadeaway and even missed 4 in a row? When did these stupid fadeaways happen exactly? Where did he miss four in a row?

 

[furnace]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Mar 5 2008, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Mar 5 2008, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Played 42 minutes and didn't hit one three. Only scored 19 points in those 42 minutes and everytime we got it close, he took a stupid fade away.</div>

What?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>You can when he misses four in a row yet when he drives, he scores.</div>

What?

The only one who managed to be a threat from 3 yesterday was Marcus who was 3-5. Carter was 0-4, RJ was 0-2, and Harris was 1-6. How the hell do you single out Carter for lameball because of that and ignore that he was the only other effective Net on offense besides Marcus?

And what are you talking about that everytime they got it close he took a stupid fadeaway and even missed 4 in a row? When did these stupid fadeaways happen exactly? Where did he miss four in a row?
</div>


1) NOMAM: nowhere in Universe's post did he talk about Vince Carter taking 3's
2) Look at the shot chart below. The x's show his misses, which were mostly jump shots. The o's indicate makes, which were mostly close to the basket.
3) JCB makes the point that it might be hard to drive the lane, if the defense were focusing on Vince. However, that is no excuse for fade away jumpers. First of all, other players like Kobe and RJ still attack. 2nd of all, it's a good way to draw fouls on the opponent. I'd rather see Vince with a few charges and 12-14 free throws per game..

 

[NOMAM]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (furnace @ Mar 5 2008, 03:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1) NOMAM: nowhere in Universe's post did he talk about Vince Carter taking 3's
2) Look at the shot chart below. The x's show his misses, which were mostly jump shots. The o's indicate makes, which were mostly close to the basket.
3) JCB makes the point that it might be hard to drive the lane, if the defense were focusing on Vince. However, that is no excuse for fade away jumpers. First of all, other players like Kobe and RJ still attack. 2nd of all, it's a good way to draw fouls on the opponent. I'd rather see Vince with a few charges and 12-14 free throws per game..</div>





<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe)</div><div class='quotemain'>Played 42 minutes and didn't hit one three. Only scored 19 points in those 42 minutes and everytime we got it close, he took a stupid fade away.</div>

And Universes point was Vince was taking stupid fadeaway jumpers everytime the Nets got close, and I'm asking where were they. In Vince's shot chart tell me which were the stupid fadeaway jumpers he took when the Nets were getting close? Or are you suggesting whenever there is an X indicating a miss it automatically means it was a dumb shot? So then I'll ask you where exactly were the stupid fadeaway jumpers Vince was taking when the Nets were getting close as Universe said happened? Where did he miss four in a row? How does Vince earn Lame ball?

 

[ghoti]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JCB @ Mar 5 2008, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Mar 5 2008, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 5 2008, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Mar 5 2008, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Played 42 minutes and didn't hit one three. Only scored 19 points in those 42 minutes and everytime we got it close, he took a stupid fade away.</div>

That's a signature VC move. Can't argue with that.
</div>
You can when he misses four in a row yet when he drives, he scores.
</div>

It's not that easy to drive. People can bitch and complain about the shots VC takes and beg and plead that he drive everytime he touches the ball, but it's simply not possible. Teams know he scores when he drives, so they plan for it and make him take tougher shots. The Spurs are the best in the league at doing that and it showed last night.

</div>

Please send this to Ask the Announcers. Mark Jackson needs to hear it.

Also, Vince had no problem driving in the beginning of the game when they actually got the ball down low to Nenad and he made a few shots from the post.

Without any inside presence, expect a lot of fadeaways and contested threes.

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (furnace @ Mar 5 2008, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Mar 5 2008, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 5 2008, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Mar 5 2008, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Played 42 minutes and didn't hit one three. Only scored 19 points in those 42 minutes and everytime we got it close, he took a stupid fade away.</div>

That's a signature VC move. Can't argue with that.
</div>
You can when he misses four in a row yet when he drives, he scores.
</div>


You forget that this is the Vince Carter Homer Board. He can do no wrong. Logic does not apply on this message board.

No matter how many times I have statistically proven (through time stamped shot logs cross referenced to a taped game) that Vince Carter shoots better when he steps forward into a shot, people here think that fade aways are "his signature move" or that he "naturally fades away when he shoots" etc.
</div>

Not saying it was a good thing or anything. Actually, quite the contrary. I was referring to the fact that I can't argue that Vince deserves the Lame ball...or at least part of it.

 

[Universe]

He wasn't the sole purpose of our lose but it seems like he tries to shoot us back into the game like Kobe Bryant which sometimes works, but when he backs down or drives, it's a lot better percentage.

I know it's no picnic to drive but out of everyone on the court, that cannot be the best shot out of all five of them.

 

[furnace]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Mar 5 2008, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (furnace @ Mar 5 2008, 03:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1) NOMAM: nowhere in Universe's post did he talk about Vince Carter taking 3's
2) Look at the shot chart below. The x's show his misses, which were mostly jump shots. The o's indicate makes, which were mostly close to the basket.
3) JCB makes the point that it might be hard to drive the lane, if the defense were focusing on Vince. However, that is no excuse for fade away jumpers. First of all, other players like Kobe and RJ still attack. 2nd of all, it's a good way to draw fouls on the opponent. I'd rather see Vince with a few charges and 12-14 free throws per game..</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe)</div><div class='quotemain'>Played 42 minutes and didn't hit one three. Only scored 19 points in those 42 minutes and everytime we got it close, he took a stupid fade away.</div>

And Universes point was Vince was taking stupid fadeaway jumpers everytime the Nets got close, and I'm asking where were they. In Vince's shot chart tell me which were the stupid fadeaway jumpers he took when the Nets were getting close? Or are you suggesting whenever there is an X indicating a miss it automatically means it was a dumb shot? So then I'll ask you where exactly were the stupid fadeaway jumpers Vince was taking when the Nets were getting close as Universe said happened? Where did he miss four in a row? How does Vince earn Lame ball?
</div>

Ok I missed that. Either way, the point of the post was jacking up fade away 3's.

Unfortunately, I already deleted the game from my DVR - otherwise, I could go back and match up the shot chart and game log to the actual game. If you go to the ESPN shot chart, you can break it down by quarter. If you look at that while replaying the game, you can break down the situation for each shot.

As I state, I did this a couple times last year, breaking down Vince's decision making as far as fade away jumpers vs driving or passing. I posted it on "that other message board".

As far as yesterday's Spurs game, I personally would not give Vince the "Lame Ball". However, I do agree with Universe's point that Vince took some horrible shots at critical moments. However, I think there were much more serious problems yesterday that overshadowed Vince's shot selection...such as RJ's effort.

 

[NOMAM]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (furnace @ Mar 5 2008, 05:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ok I missed that. Either way, the point of the post was jacking up fade away 3's.

Unfortunately, I already deleted the game from my DVR - otherwise, I could go back and match up the shot chart and game log to the actual game. If you go to the ESPN shot chart, you can break it down by quarter. If you look at that while replaying the game, you can break down the situation for each shot.

As I state, I did this a couple times last year, breaking down Vince's decision making as far as fade away jumpers vs driving or passing. I posted it on "that other message board".

As far as yesterday's Spurs game, I personally would not give Vince the "Lame Ball". However, I do agree with Universe's point that Vince took some horrible shots at critical moments. However, I think there were much more serious problems yesterday that overshadowed Vince's shot selection...such as RJ's effort.

</div>

Oh, so the point was Vince was jacking up fade away 3's, uh?

Ok, lets take a look at the type of 3's he took then.

2nd quarter, 4:30 Krstic airballs jumpshot. Ball rolls out to 3 point line and Carter picks it and is forced to attempt a 3 with 4s left on the shotclock. Didn't fade on the shot.

Nets final possession of 3rd quarter, they are running the clock down. Carter gives the ball to Marcus who run the pick and roll with Swift and then kicks it out to Carter for a spot up elbow 3 which misses. Didn't fade on the shot.

4th quarter, 8:41: Nets come down the floor in transition and Carter spots up for 3 with no one contesting the shot. He misses but the Nets get the offensive rebound. Didn't fade on the shot.

4th quarter, 4:24: 6s left on shot clock and Nets inbounding. Jefferson catches the inbound passes. Holds onto it for 3s and passes out to Carter at 3 point line with 2s left on shotclock and a Carter is forced to put up a contested 3 that misses. And he didn't even fade on the desperation 3.

So, you think that Carter was jacking up all these terrible fadeaway 3 point shots, except in reality Carter wasn't. Typical furnace.

 

[Universe]

He wasn't jacking out fad away three's. He was fading away from to top of the key as you can see on the chart.

 

[NOMAM]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Mar 5 2008, 06:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He wasn't jacking out fad away three's. He was fading away from to top of the key as you can see on the chart.</div>

3:47, 2nd quarter:
Carter comes off Krstic high screen for a hand off and shoot play. Made the shot. It was a rhythm jumper.


2:45, 2nd quarter:

The exact same play and shot as before, except he missed it.

3:26, 3rd quarter:

Came off a Krstic high pick and put up a semi contested fadeaway jumper.

11:18, 4th quarter:

Came off a screen for a midrange catch and shoot jumper.

10:11, 4th quarter:

Comes down in transition and tries to shake Ginobli with the dribble a little and then pulled up for a jumper.

So he wasn't putting up these oh so ridiculous fadeaway jumpersfrom the top of the key either, except maybe that one at 3:26 in the 3rd quarter. There wasn't really anything wrong with his shot selection and certainly nothing deserving of Lame Ball.

 

[kdub]

Fact is you have to expect Carter to take fade away shots, even in crunch times or critical moments. The reason is that fade-away shots are one of his weapons, not one of his last resort shots.

For other players, yes, fade aways are a last resort, but for Vince, it's one of his offensive weapons, that's just the way he is. Drive for the foul/layin one play, drive for the assist the next, and fade away for the next play. It might seem simple, or even dumb to some people, but that's just the way he plays and it's shown to be effective for him.

Of course I'm just like everyone when I'm yelling while watching the game for him to drive, but you have to just accept the player that he is

 

[Universe]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Mar 5 2008, 06:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Mar 5 2008, 06:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He wasn't jacking out fad away three's. He was fading away from to top of the key as you can see on the chart.</div>

3:47, 2nd quarter:
Carter comes off Krstic high screen for a hand off and shoot play. Made the shot. It was a rhythm jumper.


2:45, 2nd quarter:

The exact same play and shot as before, except he missed it.

3:26, 3rd quarter:

Came off a Krstic high pick and put up a semi contested fadeaway jumper.

11:18, 4th quarter:

Came off a screen for a midrange catch and shoot jumper.

10:11, 4th quarter:

Comes down in transition and tries to shake Ginobli with the dribble a little and then pulled up for a jumper.

So he wasn't putting up these oh so ridiculous fadeaway jumpersfrom the top of the key either, except maybe that one at 3:26 in the 3rd quarter. There wasn't really anything wrong with his shot selection and certainly nothing deserving of Lame Ball.
</div>
Vince Carters fourth quarter.

 

[danxcr]

SOOO somebody make the memphis thread... lets go nets!!!

lets win tonite and steal one in NOH and beat dallas... a man can a dream

 

[NOMAM]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Mar 5 2008, 07:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Vince Carters fourth quarter.

</div>


OK, AND“?

I already addressed 4 of those shots he took. The two 3's ( one open transition 3 and one desperation 3 to beat the shot clock. Both misses) And two jumpers at the top of the key (one pull up jumper in transition and one catch and shoot midrange jumper. Both misses.) What does his 4th quarter chart shot have to do with your original assertion that he was taking crazy fadeaway jumpers at critical points of the game?

And I just want to add that I'm not against Carter using fadeaway jumpers in his offense. They have their usefulness especially against stingy defenses where you have to hit tough jumpshots to score.

 

[Universe]

You don't notice how there is no shots down low?

 

[NOMAM]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Mar 5 2008, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You don't notice how there is no shots down low?</div>

There are two shots down and around in the paint.

And what happened to your point about Carter taking bad fadeaway jumpers at critical times during the game to earn him a lame ball?

 

[Universe]

Those shots are still not attacking.

My points were he took stupid shots when we were close. You do not get it?

 

[NOMAM]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Mar 5 2008, 08:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Those shots are still not attacking.

My points were he took stupid shots when we were close. You do not get it?</div>

Not attacking? One of those was Vince backing his defender down deep into the paint and putting in a semi-hook shot. The second attempt was hard cut into the lane and spinning away to get an open look in the paint for a short jumper which he missed.

And your "point" about Carter taking stupid shots when the game was close is wrong. I already addressed it. Don't you get it?

 

[Universe]

I watched the game and saw stupid ass shots. Like you stated he is a back down scorer yet he kept shooting not from the post.

He tried to shoot us back like Kobe when he isn't Kobe.