Greatest threat to freedom..

[julius]

I just heard the minority leader, John Boehner, claim that the health care issue is the 'greatest threat to freedom' he has seen in his 19 years in service.

Can someone tell me how it's a threat to freedom, and not just him trying to rile up the minority of people who are opposed to the bill?

"This bill is the greatest threat to freedom that I have seen," House Republican leader John Boehner of Ohio told the crowd gathered on the lawn near the West Front of the Capitol.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33654086/ns/politics-health_care_reform

I understand being against it, but can they at least not come off like complete morons?

 

[maxiep]

It gives the Federal Government the power of life or death. It takes over 1/6th of the US Economy and socializes it.

Isn't that enough?

 

[Sug]

It gives the Federal Government the power of life or death. It takes over 1/6th of the US Economy and socializes it.

Isn't that enough?

Well shit, explain the military.

 

[Buzz Killington]

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

It gives the Federal Government the power of life or death. It takes over 1/6th of the US Economy and socializes it.

Isn't that enough?

The odd thing is........... some people (granted, a minority) want this in their lives.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I'm still making it through the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Some of the machinations Hitler was able to pull off (legally!) seem astounding to me, looking back.

And then I see on the news this morning that there's going to be a vote on the Health Care bill in the House today (or Monday?), and Pelosi won't let it be posted for public view. Does anyone have a link to the bill? Or does anyone want to defend the right of our representatives to vote on a "secret" bill that will affect so much of our lives and treasury?

 

[MrJayremmie]

Because he is an idiot.

The Nazis, Communism, Religious Extremism, Neo-Cons...

All worse.

 

[barfo]

I'm still making it through the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Some of the machinations Hitler was able to pull off (legally!) seem astounding to me, looking back.

And then I see on the news this morning that there's going to be a vote on the Health Care bill in the House today (or Monday?), and Pelosi won't let it be posted for public view. Does anyone have a link to the bill? Or does anyone want to defend the right of our representatives to vote on a "secret" bill that will affect so much of our lives and treasury?

I won't make any guesses about which "news" you were watching, but that appears to be untrue. The text of the bill is here.

barfo

 

[blazerboy30]

It gives the Federal Government the power of life or death. It takes over 1/6th of the US Economy and socializes it.

Not to mention, it will place more future debt on all citizens.

I understand being against it, but can they at least not come off like complete morons?

Funny, when in reality, those that don't see (or won't admit) that expanding the government, giving the government more power, and socializing more future debt doesn't reduce our freedom are the ones that come off looking like morons.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Because he is an idiot.

The Nazis, Communism, Religious Extremism, Neo-Cons...

All worse.

I dunno, this current administration is bent on taking rights & freedoms from people- all in the name of a facist socialism. Seems pretty bad to me.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Funny, when in reality, those that don't see (or won't admit) that expanding the government, giving the government more power, and socializing more future debt doesn't reduce our freedom are the ones that come off looking like morons.

How true, how true.

Rep'd

 

[BrianFromWA]

I won't make any guesses about which "news" you were watching, but that appears to be untrue. The text of the bill is here.

barfo

Thanks, I knew I could count on someone.

 

[maxiep]

Well shit, explain the military.

First, the Constitution states that we all provide for the common defense. Strangely, it doesn't mention universal health care.

Second, while the government can put soldiers (who volunteered) in harm's way, they can't kill them. Health care policies will ration care, and by definition, allow some to die so others may live.

Third, the people who make the decision to go to war are elected. The people that would serve on these health care policy review boards are unelected. It puts the power of life and death in the hand of people who aren't voted into power by the will of the people.

Of course, you know all of this, but I understand your strategy.

 

[mook]

I've pretty much given up talking about this subject on this board. Nobody ever convinces anybody of anything.

 

[mook]

Personally, though, I feel the greatest threats to my own freedom have precious little to do with "socialized medicine."

1. I can't lose my job or I won't be able to afford health insurance for me, my wife and kids.

2. I hate that some idiot terrorist fucks over half a decade ago cause me to still take off my shoes at the airport. I hate that sinking feeling in my gut I still get every time I get on an airplane.

3. I hate that our government seems completely incompetent at handling major disasters (Katrina). Which makes me even more concerned about #2.

I've always found it depressing when people living in cookie-cutter beige gated communities who work 50 hours a week so they can drive the same overrated SUV that their TV set tells them they need to have for their hour-long commute to their bland corporate job and pay for it all by piling up massive debts and waste every Sunday praying to somebody who doesn't exist while paying priests to tell them he does are terrified that the government is a threat to their "freedom."

*whew* That may be the worst use of dependent clauses without commas I've written. Well, at least this week.

 

[Masbee]

I just heard the minority leader, John Boehner, claim that the health care issue is the 'greatest threat to freedom' he has seen in his 19 years in service.

Can someone tell me how it's a threat to freedom, and not just him trying to rile up the minority of people who are opposed to the bill?

He is referring to it being the BILL that he has seen in his time in Congress, that is the "greatest threat to freedom"...

Name another bill (one that had serious traction - don't get cute) in the last 19 years that is clearly and unequivocally a greater expansion of the power, size and reach of federal government.

Now, if you believe, as some do, that relatively limitless federal government power, is more or less benign, then you would have a disagreement with this dude. But, you can't argue that he is being inconsistent with his prior stated positions or is being a "moron". He is logically consistent.

 

[LittleAlex]

First, the Constitution states that we all provide for the common defense. Strangely, it doesn't mention universal health care.

Second, while the government can put soldiers (who volunteered) in harm's way, they can't kill them. Health care policies will ration care, and by definition, allow some to die so others may live.

Third, the people who make the decision to go to war are elected. The people that would serve on these health care policy review boards are unelected. It puts the power of life and death in the hand of people who aren't voted into power by the will of the people.

Of course, you know all of this, but I understand your strategy.

They are already rationed. The difference is they are rationed by people who are legal obligated to turn as large a profit as possible.

So in doing their duty to shareholders they have to deny care to as many people as they possiblely can. They decide who lives and dies by how much it will cost. If you think that is ok then I really have no idea how you can live with yourself.

How would a government system be worse then that?

 

[yakbladder]

Personally, though, I feel the greatest threats to my own freedom have precious little to do with "socialized medicine."

1. I can't lose my job or I won't be able to afford health insurance for me, my wife and kids.

2. I hate that some idiot terrorist fucks over half a decade ago cause me to still take off my shoes at the airport. I hate that sinking feeling in my gut I still get every time I get on an airplane.

3. I hate that our government seems completely incompetent at handling major disasters (Katrina). Which makes me even more concerned about #2.

I've always found it depressing when people living in cookie-cutter beige gated communities who work 50 hours a week so they can drive the same overrated SUV that their TV set tells them they need to have for their hour-long commute to their bland corporate job and pay for it all by piling up massive debts and waste every Sunday praying to somebody who doesn't exist while paying priests to tell them he does are terrified that the government is a threat to their "freedom."

*whew* That may be the worst use of dependent clauses without commas I've written. Well, at least this week.

+1

I'm also amused in a tragic way by the GOP congresswoman who stated that this health care bill is greater threat than any terrorist in the country.

If any of you feel this way I'd highly suggest you pack your bags and look for a new country. Because if this incredibly incremental move towards having a government run health option that's only expected to affect 2% of the population really scares you that much then I wouldn't want you to be in terror every night of the week.

 

[RR7]

Second, while the government can put soldiers (who volunteered) in harm's way, they can't kill them. Health care policies will ration care, and by definition, allow some to die so others may live.

Well, the health care policies aren't directly killing people the same way the military isn't directly killing people, so your rationale here fails. They just put people at a greater risk of dying.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

First, the Constitution states that we all provide for the common defense. Strangely, it doesn't mention universal health care.

Second, while the government can put soldiers (who volunteered) in harm's way, they can't kill them. Health care policies will ration care, and by definition, allow some to die so others may live.

Third, the people who make the decision to go to war are elected. The people that would serve on these health care policy review boards are unelected. It puts the power of life and death in the hand of people who aren't voted into power by the will of the people.

Of course, you know all of this, but I understand your strategy.

Rep'd.

Game, set & match.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

This all just political posturing.

I don't think he means it, just trying to drive home the ponit how much against the bill he is. Smart political move.

 

[MrJayremmie]

[video=youtube;KPNN1prDJRs]

Typical neo-con fear mongering. There was a 1-minute section of the speech where she used the word "fear" or "fearful" 10 - 12 times (can't remember exactly). Hilarious.

 

[BlazerWookee]

I've pretty much given up talking about this subject on this board. Nobody ever convinces anybody of anything.

I'm convinced.

 

[blazerboy30]

+1
Because if this incredibly incremental move towards having a government run health option that's only expected to affect 2% of the population really scares you that much then I wouldn't want you to be in terror every night of the week.

Incremental? Masbee said it better than I can...

Name another bill (one that had serious traction - don't get cute) in the last 19 years that is clearly and unequivocally a greater expansion of the power, size and reach of federal government.

Also, WTF are you getting the ridiculous idea that "only expected to affect 2% of the population"? That is the most ignorant statement on this thread.

 

[yakbladder]

Incremental? Masbee said it better than I can...

Perhaps you need to look at real socialized medicine and see if you can spot the difference, because there is huge difference between what is being proposed and what is actually socialized medicine.

Also, WTF are you getting the ridiculous idea that "only expected to affect 2% of the population"? That is the most ignorant statement on this thread.

Do personal attacks make you feel better? Does it help soothe your ego? Do you feel like you're a real man since you can take personal swipes on an Internet message board? Bravo, you must be king of the world!

I was referring to the CBO report issued last week stating that they expected only 2% of the population under 65 would utilize any govt. sponsored portion of the current health plan.

 

[blazerboy30]

Perhaps you need to look at real socialized medicine and see if you can spot the difference, because there is huge difference between what is being proposed and what is actually socialized medicine.

This isn't the "rest of the world". We don't need to judge how large our changes are by comparing them to the policies of other countries.

Do personal attacks make you feel better? Does it help soothe your ego? Do you feel like you're a real man since you can take personal swipes on an Internet message board? Bravo, you must be king of the world!

It was an attack on what you wrote. Not to you. Sorry if you couldn't distinguish the difference.

I was referring to the CBO report issued last week stating that they expected only 2% of the population under 65 would utilize any govt. sponsored portion of the current health plan.

Right. So my post about your statement being ignorant holds. The estimate that 2% of the population "utilizes" a government option is FAR different than stating this legislation will only affect 2% of the population.

 

[yakbladder]

It was an attack on what you wrote. Not to you. Sorry if you couldn't distinguish the difference.

Sorry if you can't see how it's a personal attack.

Right. So my post about your statement being ignorant holds. The estimate that 2% of the population "utilizes" a government option is FAR different than stating this legislation will only affect 2% of the population.

Wrong. If you aren't involved in the "threat" to your freedom from government rationing and control as put earlier, then it doesn't affect you. So only 2% is affected. You'll still be on your private plan.

 

[blazerboy30]

Sorry if you can't see how it's a personal attack.



Wrong. If you aren't involved in the "threat" to your freedom from government rationing and control as put earlier, then it doesn't affect you. So only 2% is affected. You'll still be on your private plan.

Wow, this is such a ridiculous statement, I shouldn't even respond, but oh well...

Wrong. Everybody that is required to give more of what they earn to the government for the program, is affected. That is in addition to the government racking up social debt.

I've always thought this line of thinking was hilarious: "The government should just give me what I want. It doesn't affect anybody else"

 

[yakbladder]

Wow, this is such a ridiculous statement, I shouldn't even respond, but oh well...

Next time don't. It will save us all a lot of trouble.

Wrong. Everybody that is required to give more of what they earn to the government for the program, is affected. That is in addition to the government racking up social debt.

I've always thought this line of thinking was hilarious: "The government should just give me what I want. It doesn't affect anybody else"

Wrong. The thread is entitled greatest threat to freedom. The discussion was centered around how the government was imposing rationing and taking over the health care system, not discussing how taxation affects people.

I've always thought this line of thinking was hilarious: "I can assign views to someone else without really knowing what those person's views actually are - this game is fun!"

 

[blazerboy30]

Next time don't. It will save us all a lot of trouble.



Wrong. The thread is entitled greatest threat to freedom. The discussion was centered around how the government was imposing rationing and taking over the health care system, not discussing how taxation affects people.

I've always thought this line of thinking was hilarious: "I can assign views to someone else without really knowing what those person's views actually are - this game is fun!"

Wrong. Here is the original post:

I just heard the minority leader, John Boehner, claim that the health care issue is the 'greatest threat to freedom' he has seen in his 19 years in service.

Can someone tell me how it's a threat to freedom, and not just him trying to rile up the minority of people who are opposed to the bill?

Quote:
"This bill is the greatest threat to freedom that I have seen," House Republican leader John Boehner of Ohio told the crowd gathered on the lawn near the West Front of the Capitol.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33654086...th_care_reform

I understand being against it, but can they at least not come off like complete morons?

The topic was "health care issue". If you want to busy your head in the sand and pretend that increased taxes, and added debt won't be part of the "health care issue", then by all means, go ahead.

The rest of us, back here in the real world, will realize that this massive legislation affects ALL of us.