Headhunting otherwise known as HS basketball-Viral Video

[The_Lillard_King]

I see a lot of this stuff going on in HS and Middle school basketball. Refs need to take control of this stuff.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/highschool/...calls-at-basketball-ga?urn=highschool-wp10756

 

[HailBlazers]

That's what happens when you have a football player playing B-Ball

 

[TripTango]

Holy shit. If I were the parent of the kid who got fouled in #5, I'd have been on the floor.

 

[Ed O]

Foul #1: Not a big deal. He actually got the ball. Was it a foul? Sure. Did he go through the shooter's arm to get to the ball? Sure. That's why it's a foul. But he got the ball.

Foul #2: Not a big deal. The guy got pushed as part of the box out and he wrapped the guy up. Was it a foul? Sure. But a flagrant? It wasn't even a HARD foul.

Foul #3: Wow. That's bad. I don't know how the rulebook is written, but he hit the guy in the head with his elbow--with a straight arm. Nowhere near the ball. That's pretty bad.

Foul #4: Not a big deal. The player stopped and threw is arms up to screen a loose ball. It's a foul, for sure, but that sort of move is pretty cheap and getting shoved out of the way is to be expected.

Foul #5: Not as bad as #3, IMO, but worse than the others. A bad fall, of course, but that's the nature of what might happen when you go up. Again, I don't know the rule for a flagrant foul. In the NBA it certainly would be, but in high school basketball I'm not sure.

Foul #6: Not a big deal. He definitely fouled him but at least he was making a play on the ball initially (unlike #'s 3 and 5).

I think that these plays were probably taken out of context of a physical game and that #34 is probably just a bad basketball player It's easy to get outraged at this but, contextually, it's probably not much of a much.

Ed O.

 

[Eastoff]

^^ i would switch 3 and 5. 5 was a ridiculous clothesline.

 

[HailBlazers]

If your not going for the ball, which he isn't, it's a flagrant

 

[Ed O]

If your not going for the ball, which he isn't, it's a flagrant

What is your source?

Ed O.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I agree with Ed's assessment for the most part, except 3 looks mostly unfortunate to me. Looks like the kid got tricked by the pump fake, and he tomahawked at where he thought the ball would be. Of course, if he would just go up for a block instead of trying to attack the ball, that would be avoided.

I think the worst part about #5 was the way he stalked off after throwing the kid to the floor, with an obvious "that's what happens when you come into my house" attitude.

 

[TripTango]

According to My Youth Basketball Player, which apparently got the info from the NFHS handbook, "going for the ball" is not the criteria used to determine flagrants:

Flagrant Foul – A personal or technical foul, which is violent in nature. Examples are fighting, striking, kicking, or kneeing an opponent.

I would add deliberate clotheslines to the list, and therefore would count #3 and #5 as clearly flagrant.

 

[TripTango]

I agree with Ed's assessment for the most part, except 3 looks mostly unfortunate to me. Looks like the kid got tricked by the pump fake, and he tomahawked at where he thought the ball would be. Of course, if he would just go up for a block instead of trying to attack the ball, that would be avoided.

I think the worst part about #5 was the way he stalked off after throwing the kid to the floor, with an obvious "that's what happens when you come into my house" attitude.

Agreed about #5. Everything about that guy's behavior seems to indicate that he is trying to hurt and intimidate the other players, not get the ball or defend the shot. That's the problem with #3 -- you can't just "tomahawk" at where the ball was, crash your elbow into the other guy's head, and call it fair defense.

 

[Ed O]

According to My Youth Basketball Player, which apparently got the info from the NFHS handbook, "going for the ball" is not the criteria used to determine flagrants:

I would add deliberate clotheslines to the list, and therefore would count #3 and #5 as clearly flagrant.

I agree with that. FWIW

Ed O.

 

[RR7]

Kid should have been tossed from the game.

 

[PapaG]

Cole Vanderbilt is a 6' 3" 280 lb. high school kid from Connell, WA. I'm guessing he's about as coordinated as a turnip and is playing basketball because the team needs him more than he needs the team.

If you've every driven on SR-395 from Tri-Cities to Spokane, you know that the biggest building in Connell is the water tower, and the biggest employer is the state prison. It's a tough, blue collar town quite literally in the middle of nowhere.

I find it hard to get too upset over this. It's not like he was running around the court punching people or anything, or tackling players who didn't even have the ball. Meh ... the responses at the YouTube video are much worse than anything I saw the kids in the video do. It's not like anybody got hurt, and of all the fouls, the only one that looked bad happened because the kid driving the lane was about 5'8" 130 lbs and got upended by a guy whose arm probably weighs that much.

Should there have been at least one flagrant? Sure. Is it worth this kid getting criticized by adults all over the nation via the internet? Not to me.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

3 & 5 are bullshit and should have been flagrant fouls. The others are just regular hard fouls. If a kid is playing like that, take it to the hole and smack him in the face with your elbow. The other kids seemed kinda soft.

 

[PapaG]

3 & 5 are bullshit and should have been flagrant fouls. The others are just regular hard fouls. If a kid is playing like that, take it to the hole and smack him in the face with your elbow. The other kids seemed kinda soft.

I thought the same thing, actually. The only people acting tough were the parents in the crowd heckling the kid.

 

[TripTango]

find it hard to get too upset over this. It's not like he was running around the court punching people or anything, or tackling players who didn't even have the ball. Meh ... the responses at the YouTube video are much worse than anything I saw the kids in the video do. It's not like anybody got hurt, and of all the fouls, the only one that looked bad happened because the kid driving the lane was about 5'8" 130 lbs and got upended by a guy whose arm probably weighs that much.

YouTube video comments, in general, are train wrecks. But c'mon, "sticks and stones may break my bones" and all... 1 million stupid comments won't put someone in a wheelchair -- an overly aggressive, uncoordinated "basketball player" clotheslining a kid going up for a layup can.

The reason the video was posted was to get refs to do their job, which is to make the game as safe and fair for the kids as reasonably possible. These refs failed to do so, and I can understand the parents' frustration.

 

[PapaG]

I agree with Ed's assessment for the most part, except 3 looks mostly unfortunate to me. Looks like the kid got tricked by the pump fake, and he tomahawked at where he thought the ball would be. Of course, if he would just go up for a block instead of trying to attack the ball, that would be avoided.

I think the worst part about #5 was the way he stalked off after throwing the kid to the floor, with an obvious "that's what happens when you come into my house" attitude.

Maurice Lucas and Rick Mahorn made their careers out of that sort of play. Luke (RIP) even has his number retired in Portland.

 

[PapaG]

YouTube video comments, in general, are train wrecks. But c'mon, "sticks and stones may break my bones" and all... 1 million stupid comments won't put someone in a wheelchair -- an overly aggressive, uncoordinated "basketball player" clotheslining a kid going up for a layup can.

The reason the video was posted was to get refs to do their job, which is to make the game as safe and fair for the kids as reasonably possible. These refs failed to do so, and I can understand the parents' frustration.

I'm not sure about the "clothesline", though. It's the only foul that isn't replayed 15 times in slow-motion. I think Vanderbilt got the kid near the armpit of the shooting hand, and the kid was so tiny he just kind of flipped onto his back. I agree that a flagrant should have been called, but that's the refs' fault, isn't it? Unfortunately for the "adult" who posted the video, the kids committing the fouls are now the villains. I didn't even see the refs' names anywhere.

 

[PapaG]

I'm just glad to see they're still keeping score in HS basketball. I'd have thought by now that everybody would get a participation trophy and go out for pizza after the game.

I'm also wondering if the other team committed any questionable fouls during the game. The video is so one-sided and biased, it really doesn't give a complete story.

 

[TripTango]

I thought the same thing, actually. The only people acting tough were the parents in the crowd heckling the kid.

I suspect that they had ever seen someone act like that, and weren't quite sure what to do about it. Again, it's not the kids' jobs to be "enforcers" at this level -- it's the coaches and refs.

 

[PapaG]

Interesting to note that Connell won the game 38-37 for their first win of the season. Highland is 3-5.

 

[PapaG]

I suspect that they had ever seen someone act like that, and weren't quite sure what to do about it. Again, it's not the kids' jobs to be "enforcers" at this level -- it's the coaches and refs.

They need to get out more, then. Not sure when you played HS ball, but I took some very hard hits while driving the lane, and I don't think the idea of flagrant fouls even existed back when I played. I honestly don't remember any flagrants fouls ever being called. You got up, made your FTs, and went and played defense.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

that kid is probably the worst basketball player in the world, he missed that block by what 3 feet?

 

[TripTango]

They need to get out more, then. Not sure when you played HS ball, but I took some very hard hits while driving the lane, and I don't think the idea of flagrant fouls even existed back when I played. I honestly don't remember any flagrants fouls ever being called. You got up, made your FTs, and went and played defense.

 

[TripTango]

that kid is probably the worst basketball player in the world, he missed that block by what 3 feet?

I bet he just needs glasses.

 

[PapaG]

Not saying I'm a badass at all. Just saying that kids today are coddled, and fouls were called on all the plays in the video.

Looks like one parent's propaganda has worked on a lot of people, and because of it some burly kid who is terrible at hoops is getting hate mail.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

people dont like kids getting bullied and thats what it looks like.

but im certainly not up in arms about it.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

To me this is a ref issue.

If this is the NBA, I get the argument that these are just hard fouls. But at the HS level, this kind of conduct should not be tolerated.

I have been very involved in youth sports both in basketball and soccer . . . and I can say from my experience that most injuries that occur on the court or on the field can be attributed to refs not having control over the game.

There should be a more strict standard in high school sports ( vs college or pros) to protect the kids. But good refs at the high school level has been an issue ever since I've been involved with sports. They try to tell coaches not to get on the refs. I took that to heart for one year until I realized I need to be protecting the kids.

On a local level . . . anyone catch the Jesuit vs. Central Catholic football game. Jesuit had their own highlights of the game that never really caught on, but they attempted the same thing.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

They need to get out more, then. Not sure when you played HS ball, but I took some very hard hits while driving the lane, and I don't think the idea of flagrant fouls even existed back when I played. I honestly don't remember any flagrants fouls ever being called. You got up, made your FTs, and went and played defense.

They also used to allow high school kids to play with concussions on a regular basis. Just becuse they did things in the olden days doesn't make it right.

 

[TripTango]

They also used to allow high school kids to play with concussions on a regular basis. Just becuse they did things in the olden days doesn't make it right.

Those weren't concussions back then -- they were Fuzzy, Slurring Badges of Courage. Why, I personally played basketball with 5 concussions at once back in the day. Just made me stronger.