Health Insurance- Or ELSE!

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Yep, buying health insurance will be mandatory or there will be penalties to the individual.
 
How is this is any different than simply levying a tax? If it were worded that buying insurance will be optional but there will be a tax on everyone above a certain income to pay for universal health care (for those that want it), would you perceive it differently? This simply turns the premiums into the "tax" which means less tax on everyone, but could be considered a tax on those who ordinarily would choose not to buy (but they'd at least be insured).

It's as much an "...or else!" as any tax is, and taxes have been levied by both Democrats and Republicans over the years.
 
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/House-Dems-look-at-surtax-on-apf-4134590509.html?x=0

looks like they're exploring a surtax on people making over $200k a year....just the beginning.....

An income tax surcharge on highly paid Americans emerged as the leading option Wednesday night as House Democrats sought ways to pay for health care legislation that President Barack Obama favors, several officials said.

As discussed in the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, the surtax would apply to individuals with adjusted gross income of more than $200,000 and couples over $250,000, they added.

In addition, key lawmakers are expected to call for a tax or fee equal to a percentage of a worker's salary on employers who do not offer health benefits.

Rep. Shelley Berkley, D-Nev., a member of the panel, said the proposed surtax on high-income taxpayers appealed to her and others as a way to avoid a "nickel-and-dime" approach involving numerous smaller tax increases. She added that other earlier options had fallen away, including an increase in the payroll tax.

Berkley and others cautioned that no final decisions have been made, either by the tax-writing committee or by the Democratic leadership, which hopes to have legislation drafted by Friday and through the House by month's end.

Aside from Berkley, other officials discussed the private discussions only on condition of anonymity.
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If you make so much money that you're getting taxed more than you like the solution is very simple.

Stop hogging the wealth. Retire. Sell your vacation home. Live a modest but comfortable life.

There are many less fortunate people who will work harder than you and not mind at all paying higher taxes in exchange for the benefits of wealth.
 
It's about time. We need a major overhaul of healthcare in this country, it is a very busted system right now. We are the only industrialized country that has people go bankrupt because of health related issues. It is just wrong. This is a national security issue, without a healthy population you cannot defend yourself. We have more people die every year from preventable/correctable medical issues than died during 9/11. We must change the current situation. You pay about 80% of your tax dollars to the military and don't blink an eye because you want the United States to be protected. Yet when you can pay taxes towards something that will do the same thing, but actually make a difference right away you want to complain. It makes no sense.
 
MARIS61 said:
If you make so much money that you're getting taxed more than you like the solution is very simple.

Stop hogging the wealth. Retire. Sell your vacation home. Live a modest but comfortable life.

There are many less fortunate people who will work harder than you and not mind at all paying higher taxes in exchange for the benefits of wealth.
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no.
 
Sug said:
It's about time. We need a major overhaul of healthcare in this country, it is a very busted system right now. We are the only industrialized country that has people go bankrupt because of health related issues. It is just wrong. This is a national security issue, without a healthy population you cannot defend yourself. We have more people die every year from preventable/correctable medical issues than died during 9/11. We must change the current situation. You pay about 80% of your tax dollars to the military and don't blink an eye because you want the United States to be protected. Yet when you can pay taxes towards something that will do the same thing, but actually make a difference right away you want to complain. It makes no sense.
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what makes no sense is the wealthy paying for the poor's health care. if you want to provide universal healthcare, then provide universal flax tax rates.
 
MARIS61 said:
If you make so much money that you're getting taxed more than you like the solution is very simple.

Stop hogging the wealth. Retire. Sell your vacation home. Live a modest but comfortable life.

There are many less fortunate people who will work harder than you and not mind at all paying higher taxes in exchange for the benefits of wealth.
Click to expand...

If you make so little money that you have to have others pay for you, the solution is very simple.

Stop buying consumer goods or brand name merchandise. You should only be allowed to buy certain brands of cars, clothes and goods. Work more. Rent instead of buying a house. Live a meager life of eating bread and cheese every day.

There are many more fortunate people who will will spend wiser than you.
 
BTOWN_HUSTLA said:
what makes no sense is the wealthy paying for the poor's health care. if you want to provide universal healthcare, then provide universal flax tax rates.
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Why does that not make sense?
 
Sug said:
Why does that not make sense?
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because you have a robin hood society in which money is taken from the rich and given to the poor.

its a society where you are penalized for success and rewarded for mediocrity.

basically it doesn't make sense because I believe in capitalism, not socialism.
 
I think healthcare is important and should be affordable for all. However, I don't believe it should be mandated, nor should I pay for someone else's healthcare.

Everyone should pay the same healthcare costs, but that's not going to happen as policies change with age and one's health.
 
BTOWN_HUSTLA said:
because you have a robin hood society in which money is taken from the rich and given to the poor.

its a society where you are penalized for success and rewarded for mediocrity.

basically it doesn't make sense because I believe in capitalism, not socialism.
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Why should the wealthy pay to fund the military to protect the poor?
 
MARIS61 said:
If you make so much money that you're getting taxed more than you like the solution is very simple.

Stop hogging the wealth. Retire. Sell your vacation home. Live a modest but comfortable life.

There are many less fortunate people who will work harder than you and not mind at all paying higher taxes in exchange for the benefits of wealth.
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And this is exactly what happens. If I'm forced to pay more in taxes, what's my incentive to work harder? Everyone becomes mediocre, and everyone becomes equally miserable.

Welcome to the Union of Obama Socialist Republics.
 
maxiep said:
And this is exactly what happens. If I'm forced to pay more in taxes, what's my incentive to work harder? Everyone becomes mediocre, and everyone becomes equally miserable.

Welcome to the Union of Obama Socialist Republics.
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So paying Regan tax rates is socialist?
 
Sug said:
It's about time. We need a major overhaul of healthcare in this country, it is a very busted system right now. We are the only industrialized country that has people go bankrupt because of health related issues. It is just wrong. This is a national security issue, without a healthy population you cannot defend yourself. We have more people die every year from preventable/correctable medical issues than died during 9/11. We must change the current situation. You pay about 80% of your tax dollars to the military and don't blink an eye because you want the United States to be protected. Yet when you can pay taxes towards something that will do the same thing, but actually make a difference right away you want to complain. It makes no sense.
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We have the best healthcare in the world, bar none. We're unhealthy because we choose to be, not because our doctors suck. We're free to eat Big Macs and stuffed crust pizzas and drive where we could walk.

This idea of the uninsured is madness. People either choose to be uninsured because they want more disposable income or they're illegals. NO ONE IS DENIED TREATMENT IN THIS COUNTRY. It's a false crisis.

Note the talk about "using health care more efficiently". That's code for "rationing care". How long are you willing to wait for a surgery that is deemed non-life threatening?

BTW, when the Government tells you what kind of care you can receive, they also can tell you how to live. If you smoke, you don't get access to treatment for lung cancer. If you drink, you can't get a liver transplant. If you're obese, you can't get a joint replacement.

I'm amazed at how willingly people are giving up control of their lives.

P.S. The Congress likes this kind of health care so much they've exempted themselves from it.
 
Sug said:
So paying Regan tax rates is socialist?
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First, it's Reagan, not Regan. If you're going to bring up a former president, have enough respect for the office to spell his last name correctly. And second, he brought them down and wanted them to go down further. Tax rates have to go up and down in a slow curve, not all at once. He also lowered capital gains taxes.
 
maxiep said:
We have the best healthcare in the world, bar none. We're unhealthy because we choose to be, not because our doctors suck. We're free to eat Big Macs and stuffed crust pizzas and drive where we could walk.

This idea of the uninsured is madness. People either choose to be uninsured because they want more disposable income or they're illegals. NO ONE IS DENIED TREATMENT IN THIS COUNTRY. It's a false crisis.

Note the talk about "using health care more efficiently". That's code for "rationing care". How long are you willing to wait for a surgery that is deemed non-life threatening?

BTW, when the Government tells you what kind of care you can receive, they also can tell you how to live. If you smoke, you don't get access to treatment for lung cancer. If you drink, you can't get a liver transplant. If you're obese, you can't get a joint replacement.

I'm amazed at how willingly people are giving up control of their lives.

P.S. The Congress likes this kind of health care so much they've exempted themselves from it.
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You are so out of touch it is sad. I'm done with you, we each get a vote so I guess we can veto one another.
 
BTOWN_HUSTLA said:
what makes no sense is the wealthy paying for the poor's health care. if you want to provide universal healthcare, then provide universal flax tax rates.
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Who decided that I was responsible for paying for my neighbor's health care? Jesus, can't people be responsible for themselves?
 
Sug said:
You are so out of touch it is sad. I'm done with you, we each get a vote so I guess we can veto one another.
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How am I out of touch? My mother spent her life as a hospital administrator. My sister is a doctor. I'm an economist who understands when moral hazard is being used as a dictatorial device. I've also lived in four countries with socialized healthcare. Do you know what the wealthy in those countries have? They have supplemental insurance that treats them in the US for serious conditions.

I'm glad you're done with me. Remedial education was never my strong suit. I am better at teaching the intelligent.
 
maxiep said:
How am I out of touch? My mother spent her life as a hospital administrator. My sister is a doctor. I'm an economist who understands when moral hazard is being used as a dictatorial device. I've also lived in four countries with socialized healthcare. Do you know what the wealthy in those countries have? They have supplemental insurance that treats them in the US for serious conditions.

I'm glad you're done with me. Remedial education was never my strong suit. I am better at teaching the intelligent.
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great
 
maxiep said:
How am I out of touch? My mother spent her life as a hospital administrator. My sister is a doctor. I'm an economist who understands when moral hazard is being used as a dictatorial device. I've also lived in four countries with socialized healthcare. Do you know what the wealthy in those countries have? They have supplemental insurance that treats them in the US for serious conditions.

I'm glad you're done with me. Remedial education was never my strong suit. I am better at teaching the intelligent.
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I tried to rep you for this maxie, but it wouldn't let me.:clap:
 
I am glad you guys that are so well educated can totally ignore the bankruptcy issue around healthcare. It shows a serious dedication to having your head up your ass.
 
BTOWN_HUSTLA said:
because you have a robin hood society in which money is taken from the rich and given to the poor.

its a society where you are penalized for success and rewarded for mediocrity.

basically it doesn't make sense because I believe in capitalism, not socialism.
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I guess you never read the book. :dunno:

Robin Hood was the good guy, :cheers: and the rich were evil criminals. Just like nowadays.

Since nearly every wealthy person in the world either received their obscene pile of dough in part from the poor through theft, duress or deception, through dumb luck of factors out of their control (fluctuating markets, inheritence...), or through unfair political influence, RH is merely levelling the playing field.

As a sports fan you should really get on board with that philosophy.
 
BTOWN_HUSTLA said:
If the tax rates were flat, then I would consider it a fair system.
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If America had a flat yearly wage for all employment, including Billionaire business owners, then I would consider a flat tax a fair system also.
 
I agree that health care costs need to be addressed, as they are skyrocketing much faster than our economic growth or inflation.

That said, this government thinks the way to address the issue is to throw TRILLIONS of dollars at it. Some studies have shown that with the ideas being thrown around, it would cost $1.6 Trillion to insure 10 million of the uninsured, over a decade. That would be an average of $160,000 per person over 10 years. We would be better off as tax payers to just continue paying the medical bills of their uninsured asses, as there is no way the average person runs up a medical bill of $160,000 every 10 years.
 
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