Here's What I'm Gonna Do

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Some people say President Obama will not lower taxes for people making less than $250K/yr. Some say $200K, some $150K, some say $125K, and some say $14K.

IMHO, Obama will raise taxes on all taxable income over $14K. Many disagree, so I have a fool proof way to test this.

Let's say Obama wins (I think that's a fairly safe bet at this point in time). In 2009, prior to his taking office, I'm going to make a copy of a check stub. Obviously, it will show my bi-monthly income and the taxes withheld. Then, at some point in time in the ensuing presidency I will make another copy of my paystub and post both (I have to remove a few things like SS number... for obvious reasons) and we all will see if taxes for a person making $60K per year go up or not.

For those who say they will not, an apology will be expected. However, if those of us (like me) are wrong, we will owe an apology to those who were right as we trashed Obama unfairly.

Either way, the case shall be proven beyond any doubt.

 

[¹²³]

That would be great. Thanks.

 

[Dumpy]

Some people say President Obama will not lower taxes for people making less than $250K/yr. Some say $200K, some $150K, some say $125K, and some say $14K.

IMHO, Obama will raise taxes on all taxable income over $14K. Many disagree, so I have a fool proof way to test this.

Let's say Obama wins (I think that's a fairly safe bet at this point in time). In 2009, prior to his taking office, I'm going to make a copy of a check stub. Obviously, it will show my bi-monthly income and the taxes withheld. Then, at some point in time in the ensuing presidency I will make another copy of my paystub and post both (I have to remove a few things like SS number... fof obvious reasons) and we all will see if taxes for a person making $60K per year go up or not.

For those who say they will, an apology will be expected. However, if those of us (like me) are wrong, we will owe an apology to those who were right as we trashed Obama.

Either way, the case shall be proven beyond any doubt.

When do the Bush tax cuts expire? I think we all agree that he probably isn't including that event when he makes the statement that no one's taxes will increase.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

When do the Bush tax cuts expire? I think we all agree that he probably isn't including that event when he makes the statement that no one's taxes will increase.

There's a bottom line. Obama supporters have been adamant he will not raise taxes except for the wealthy. Period. I-t w-i-l-l n-o-t h-a-p-p-e-n. And the conservatives have been just as adamant that taxes are being increased for lower & middle income wage earners. Period.

There's no backing out of your opinions now. There's no semantics games to be played. Taxes for low & middle income earners are either going down, going up, or staying the same.

We will all find out who was pulling off the big lie.

Was it Obama? Or was it the conservatives?

Somebody was telling the truth and we will have undeniable & inarguable proof.

But, again, be forwarned! For those of you (including myself) that supported their lie, you will be fully exposed for all to see.

As Abe Lincoln said, "We shall see what we shall see."

 

[Dumpy]

There's a bottom line. Obama supporters have been adamant he will not raise taxes except for the wealthy. Period. I-t w-i-l-l n-o-t h-a-p-p-e-n. And the conservatives have been just as adamant that taxes are being increased for lower & middle income wage earners. Period.

There's no backing out of your opinions now. There's no semantics games to be played. Taxes for low & middle income earners are either going down, going up, or staying the same.

We will all find out who was pulling off the big lie.

Was it Obama? Or was it the conservatives?

Somebody was telling the truth and we will have undeniable & inarguable proof.

But, again, be forwarned! For those of you (including myself) that supported their lie, you will be fully exposed for all to see.

As Abe Lincoln said, "We shall see what we shall see."

I guess your point is just that he has been misleading. No problem with that. If that is the point of this game, then it is pretty silly, in my view. The tax cuts would expire under Mccain as well, and sure as heck won't be renewed by the almost-guarranteed democratic congress.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Now, to continue this proof positive thread. I have asked barfo (one of our moderators) to place a sticky on this thread since it will take time to see what really happens.

I'm doing this as a psuedo part of the new "fairness" doctorine coming from our liberal government.

I mean, what's good for the goose ought to be good for the gander, ya know.

 

[¹²³]

I guess your point is just that he has been misleading. No problem with that. If that is the point of this game, then it is pretty silly, in my view. The tax cuts would expire under Mccain as well, and sure as heck won't be renewed by the almost-guarranteed democratic congress.

So basically taxes are going up no matter who is the president.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

So basically taxes are going up no mather who is the president.

OK, fair enough and a very good point.

I'll do the same thing if McCain is elected.

So there,this will be done regardless of who our next president is and we'll see if taxes go up for us peons.

 

[Dumpy]

So basically taxes are going up no mather who is the president.

That's the way I see it, but I could be wrong. But it isn't the only issue on the agenda. I actually find it disheartening that so many people are focusing solely on tax policy--and that the candidates are pandering to those that are focusing on it. Maybe it is a chicken-and-egg problem. There are so many other issues at play right now--security, Iraq/Iran, the social issues, the finance/housing crisis, the way our government is run, etc.--that in my view are much more important. Tax policy is in the now: what will the government do for ME. those other issues go to the heart of where we want the country to be in five and ten years.

I expect my taxes to go up a little bit. If the money is used to improve the infrastructure, then I don't mind much. If the money is used to improve Iraq's infrastructure, I will be pretty steamed.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Here's what I'll do.

I'm going to count the number of Christian, capitalist societies we live in (1). If by the end of Obama's first term, America isn't Muslim and socialist, I will expect a full apology from one or two people on this forum.

 

[maxiep]

I guess your point is just that he has been misleading. No problem with that. If that is the point of this game, then it is pretty silly, in my view. The tax cuts would expire under Mccain as well, and sure as heck won't be renewed by the almost-guarranteed democratic congress.

If McCain were elected President, it's likely that the Democrats wouldn't have a veto-proof majority in Congress. I believe he's said that while he initially opposed them (because they didn't have corresponding expense cuts), as President he would continue them.

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm not sure you'll see any "tax cuts" on your paycheck stub. You'd see a bigger refund when you file your taxes, since there is no actual tax cut but more deductions and tax credits.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I'm not sure you'll see any "tax cuts" on your paycheck stub. You'd see a bigger refund when you file your taxes, since there is no actual tax cut but more deductions and tax credits.

Interesting point!!

I now have to consider the possibility my taxes may go down.

Oh well, it will be posted for all to see!

 

[Dumpy]

If McCain were elected President, it's likely that the Democrats wouldn't have a veto-proof majority in Congress. I believe he's said that while he initially opposed them (because they didn't have corresponding expense cuts), as President he would continue them.

My understanding is that they automatically expire without further action. He'd have to convince Congress to extend them. In other words, it is beyond his control. Perhaps I'm wrong about that.

 

[Denny Crane]

My understanding is that they automatically expire without further action. He'd have to convince Congress to extend them. In other words, it is beyond his control. Perhaps I'm wrong about that.

You're right, the expire in 2010 or 2011 and have to be renewed. Maybe some of the tax cuts have already been renewed, but certainly not the tax bracket ones.

 

[maxiep]

My understanding is that they automatically expire without further action. He'd have to convince Congress to extend them. In other words, it is beyond his control. Perhaps I'm wrong about that.

That's certainly true. And that's the beauty of the bully pulpit. He can stand in the Rose Garden and say he wants to keep taxes at the same level and the Democrats are intent on raising them. They'll be a Republican who will be happy to sponsor an extension of the tax cuts, and perhaps even a Democrat. It's a great election issue and one Pelosi and Reid will want to run away from.

They'll be bullied into continuing them.

 

[Dumpy]

That's certainly true. And that's the beauty of the bully pulpit. He can stand in the Rose Garden and say he wants to keep taxes at the same level and the Democrats are intent on raising them. They'll be a Republican who will be happy to sponsor an extension of the tax cuts, and perhaps even a Democrat. It's a great election issue and one Pelosi and Reid will want to run away from.

They'll be bullied into continuing them.

on the other side of the coin, Obama is going to be in a tough spot, because he won't be able to blame anyone but himself if his campaign promises aren't kept. And I dont expect that he wants, or plans, to keep all of them.

 

[maxiep]

on the other side of the coin, Obama is going to be in a tough spot, because he won't be able to blame anyone but himself if his campaign promises aren't kept. And I dont expect that he wants, or plans, to keep all of them.

There's no way Obama keeps them. He won't even try. He'll talk about how it minimally affects those making a living in the mid-five figures and mostly benefits the "rich". He'll play the class warfare game with it and they'll drift into history.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

on the other side of the coin, Obama is going to be in a tough spot, because he won't be able to blame anyone but himself if his campaign promises aren't kept. And I dont expect that he wants, or plans, to keep all of them.

I've never seen a president (except Regan) who kept even a majority of their campaign promises.

 

[Real]

Actually I believe that Biden said the other day that people making less than 150k would get the tax cut...

 

[Dumpy]

I've never seen a president (except Regan) who kept even a majority of their campaign promises.

. . . but most of them can blame congress. If everything goes as expected, Obama won't have that luxury.

He also could face serious overreaching by Pelosi, and being forced to choose whether to veto his own party's bills, or to sign something wildly unpopular with most of the country.

I really, really, really, really hope she is gone.

 

[maxiep]

. . . but most of them can blame congress. If everything goes as expected, Obama won't have that luxury.

He also could face serious overreaching by Pelosi, and being forced to choose whether to veto his own party's bills, or to sign something wildly unpopular with most of the country.

I really, really, really, really hope she is gone.

There have been Democrats waiting since Carter to implement some crazy ass far left policies. We saw it with President George W. Bush when the Republicans took both houses. One party rule is bad for the country because there's no check on radical ideas.

 

[Dumpy]

There have been Democrats waiting since Carter to implement some crazy ass far left policies. We saw it with President George W. Bush when the Republicans took both houses. One party rule is bad for the country because there's no check on radical ideas.

except, allegedly, the fear of losing the next election.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

There's no way Obama keeps them. He won't even try. He'll talk about how it minimally affects those making a living in the mid-five figures and mostly benefits the "rich". He'll play the class warfare game with it and they'll drift into history.

Meanwhile, the rich will die on a street corner, cold and hungry.

 

[maxiep]

Meanwhile, the rich will die on a street corner, cold and hungry.

Notice, I put "rich" in quotes. I bet you and I have very different ideas as to what "rich" is.

 

[futurama_fanatic]

Here's what I'll do.

I'm going to count the number of Christian, capitalist societies we live in (1). If by the end of Obama's first term, America isn't Muslim and socialist, I will expect a full apology from one or two people on this forum.

lol it will never happen... the apologies i mean

 

[Masbee]

Either way, the case shall be proven beyond any doubt.

I don't think it will.

Obama's proposals are a mismash of raising rates, lowering rates, credits, AMT changes. The number and complication of proposals made my head spin. Whatever changes are made to the withholding tables may not have a direct bearing on the taxes to be owed on April 15th 2010.

The new government may want a relative increase in withheld rates so they can send out larger credit checks, or early refund checks to goose the economy Summer 09. Or, they may go the other direction and want to undershoot the withholding tables, giving taxpayers extra on their paychecks, at the expense of smaller refund checks later.

Only way to prove it is with tax returns.

Easier way is to just read the Bill that the new President signs.

 

[Masbee]

My understanding is that they automatically expire without further action. He'd have to convince Congress to extend them. In other words, it is beyond his control. Perhaps I'm wrong about that.

I agree.

The Bush Tax cuts will not be renewed.

Obama has never said he would renew them, so he can and will feel free to ignore the whole issue if elected.

If McCain is elected, he won't be able to keep them as is and get it through a Dem controlled Congress. Also, with the economy tanking and the bailouts in full swing, there will be huge momentum behind getting the higher income earners to pay more than they currently pay. I don't see any way a McCain presidency could renew the Bush tax rates.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I don't think it will.

Obama's proposals are a mismash of raising rates, lowering rates, credits, AMT changes. The number and complication of proposals made my head spin. Whatever changes are made to the withholding tables may not have a direct bearing on the taxes to be owed on April 15th 2010.

The new government may want a relative increase in withheld rates so they can send out larger credit checks, or early refund checks to goose the economy Summer 09. Or, they may go the other direction and want to undershoot the withholding tables, giving taxpayers extra on their paychecks, at the expense of smaller refund checks later.

Only way to prove it is with tax returns.

Easier way is to just read the Bill that the new President signs.

Nope. Not buying any of this cheap crap. Period.

The time for talking is over. The time for trying to back out is gone. The time for lies have ended. The time for guessing has ended. NO more excuses, it's over. There can be 15,000 posts- but it's not going to help as the lines have already been drawn.

Taxes for us poor folks are either going up or not. The Obama apologists have weighed in by stating they are not and the conservative apologists that they are.

Sorry, children, spin time has ended and now it's time for the adults to take over. Check stubs will be posted and we shall see what we shall see. I'm a no excuse kind of person (and a bad speller) and there will be no more excuses here.

 

[Denny Crane]

If McCain is elected, he won't be able to keep them as is and get it through a Dem controlled Congress. Also, with the economy tanking and the bailouts in full swing, there will be huge momentum behind getting the higher income earners to pay more than they currently pay. I don't see any way a McCain presidency could renew the Bush tax rates.

If McCain is elected, he can trade a non-veto of a democratic bill for extending the tax cuts.