Hollinger on CP3 and Portland

[Fez Hammersticks]

Via ESPN radio, if the Blazers can land CP3 they should trade Roy as he's at his best with the ball in his hands, and is an ISO player.

I agree with him to a point but isn't the point of this whole scenario to pair CP3 with Roy and see if they can co-exist? Roy is good enough to adapt but would he be nearly as good playing off the ball?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Roy would become a much more dangerous player learning how to play off the ball.

Lets hope that he realizes that.

 

[julius]

I think Roy would realize that he's far more effective if he plays off of a player like Chris Paul, and it would prolong his career a bit.

Trading Roy because they got Paul would be a lateral move. Not that they're on par with each other, but it's doubtful, due to Brandons poison pill contract, that they'd get someone on par with what Brandon provides.

 

[jlprk]

On a McMillan team, Roy is twice the star he'd be elsewhere. Chris Paul has more transferable skills.

We come out way ahead if we trade Roy for Paul. Paul, like Nash, makes those around him better. In his present incarnation, Roy makes those around him worse.

 

[Nikolokolus]

On a McMillan team, Roy is twice the star he'd be elsewhere. Chris Paul has more transferable skills.

We come out way ahead if we trade Roy for Paul. Paul, like Nash, makes those around him better. In his present incarnation, Roy makes those around him worse.

I wouldn't have believed that 2 year ago, but now? ... I'm not as sure.

 

[julius]

I'm inclined to agree with jlprk with Brandon. But I don't think most SG's make their teammates better. Usually it's PG's who do that.

I don't know if I'd say he would be half the star he is if he was off of a Nate coached team though.

I think Brandon will be made a lot better if they were able to trade for Paul, because Paul does make scrubs into good players..and in this case, I think he'd make Brandon into an even greater player.

 

[Minstrel]

Roy would become a much more dangerous player learning how to play off the ball.

If he did both, I agree. If he's almost exclusively playing off the ball because it makes no sense to play Paul off the ball...then I disagree that Roy would be more dangerous. I think he'd be less valuable. A large part of his value comes in being able to run the offense and create for others. That isn't an ability that "stacks"...only one player can really do that. Having two that can do it leaves some talent on the table.

 

[barfo]

Well, if we had CP3, we could potentially trade Brandon and Nate for a high-end SF (assuming we lose Batum) and become a running team.

barfo

 

[Nikolokolus]

If he did both, I agree. If he's almost exclusively playing off the ball because it makes no sense to play Paul off the ball...then I disagree that Roy would be more dangerous. I think he'd be less valuable. A large part of his value comes in being able to run the offense and create for others. That isn't an ability that "stacks"...only one player can really do that. Having two that can do it leaves some talent on the table.

I'm in love with the CP3 to Portland idea lot less ... hmmmm ... I think I need to sit down.

 

[1 Eye Jack]

Kobe, Wade and even LeBron would be worse players if their teams didn't run much ISO through them. What's the difference when you have a premier player you get them the ball and let them go to work.

 

[barfo]

I'm in love with the CP3 to Portland idea lot less ... hmmmm ... I think I need to sit down.

I'm in love with Roy a lot less if we get CP3. He (Roy) is the best thing we've got right now, but I don't really care for iso plays as the #1 strategy. Maybe Roy can adapt to playing with CP3, maybe not. If not, I'm fine shipping him (hopefully before his value is driven down). Roy will net a very good player in return.

barfo

 

[Pinwheel1]

In his present incarnation, Roy makes those around him worse.

I take it you didn't play much basketball growing up.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

On a McMillan team, Roy is twice the star he'd be elsewhere. Chris Paul has more transferable skills.

We come out way ahead if we trade Roy for Paul. Paul, like Nash, makes those around him better. In his present incarnation, Roy makes those around him worse.

There's some truth to this.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I'm in love with Roy a lot less if we get CP3. He (Roy) is the best thing we've got right now, but I don't really care for iso plays as the #1 strategy. Maybe Roy can adapt to playing with CP3, maybe not. If not, I'm fine shipping him (hopefully before his value is driven down). Roy will net a very good player in return.

barfo

Can we trade his salary?

 

[Pinwheel1]

These comments take me back to 1988 discussions about Drexler. Yes a PG in general makes other players better, so yes a healthy Chris Paul who if he actually wanted to stay in Portland (Unlike his current city) would be ideal, but finding someone like Roy is very rare. Its all a moot point though if you think NO would actually trade for BROY. How would that save them money? If you get Paul you play him with your best player and you go for championships. Don't over analyze it and insult Roy by doing so. It wuld be the best backcourt in basketball, even if Wade went to Chicago.

 

[barfo]

These comments take me back to 1988 discussions about Drexler. Yes a PG in general makes other players better, so yes a healthy Chris Paul who if he actually wanted to stay in Portland (Unlike his current city) would be ideal, but finding someone like Roy is very rare. Its all a moot point though if you think NO would actually trade for BROY. How would that save them money? If you get Paul you play him with your best player and you go for championships. Don't over analyze it and insult Roy by doing so. It wuld be the best backcourt in basketball, even if Wade went to Chicago.

I don't think NO would be very likely to be interested in trading CP3 for Roy. I think Hollinger's suggestion was trading Roy separately to someone else (or in a 3-way).

barfo

 

[barfo]

Can we trade his salary?

You mean, trade his salary and keep him? Maybe under the next CBA.

barfo

 

[EGame]

Well, I would still be down for a trade. I would rather experiment with a Paul/Roy back court then put all of my hopes on Oden and his knees. Not to say he won't ever be healthy again, but I just feel like the risk of a Paul/Roy backcourt failing is less than seeing a healthy Oden for at the very least a full season.

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

Roy is a consummate basketball player. With Paul at point, Roy's game will only evolve and his status of an NBA All Star will only solidify.

What the team will sorely need (with Paul and Roy) will be a defending SF (Batum) and a PF in the mold of an enforcer - one that can score: Boozer? Amare? But not LMA.

If Oden actually plays injury-free, he may be the one who will not fit. Oden clogs the middle, even at the offensive end - which only created problems for Roy...and will be accentuated if Paul plays point.

In truth, I could envision A starting lineup Paul, Roy, Batum, Boozer, and LMA as a high post center!

This lineup would pose problems for other teams.

package Oden and JPEC and pick up Boozer; then move Miller, Camby, Bayless and rights to Claver for CP3.

 

[tlongII]

History has shown us that you can win titles with a 6-6 shooting guard as your best player. The same is not true for 6-0 point guards.

 

[EGame]

History has shown us that you can win titles with a 6-6 shooting guard as your best player. The same is not true for 6-0 point guards.

Yeah, but this would not be the case. For us to win titles, our hopes all depend on a healthy and beast Oden. Roy is a good number 2 to a all-star number 1 in Oden, but I just don't think he gets it done for us as the number 1 option, as good as he is.

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

History has shown us that you can win titles with a 6-6 shooting guard as your best player. The same is not true for 6-0 point guards.

Even if we were to obtain Paul and Boozer, it would be Roy who would be this team's star night in and night out. He'd score 20, get 6 boards and average 4.5 assists per game. And he'd be "the man" and Paul would find himself leading the league in assists, but only averaging 16 pts. A game.

And we'd be an elite team, playing LA for the a trip to the Finals.

 

[jlprk]

History has shown us that you can win titles with a 6-6 shooting guard as your best player. The same is not true for 6-0 point guards.

Paul wouldn't have to be our best player, if Oden's health improves. If your question allowed the 6-0 player to be the 2nd best player on a championship team, my answer would be:

On the 1957 Celtics the leading scorers were 6-1 Sharman and 6-0 Cousy, both over 20 ppg. In the ABA's 1st season in 1968, the Pittsburgh Pipers had Charles Williams as their 2nd leading scorer, 20.8 ppg after Connie Hawkins.

But the answer to your challenge is...Isaiah Thomas, 1990. He led the team in PER. He was almost, but not quite the PER leader in their 1989 championship team.

 

[jlprk]

Some were close to 6-0. Gus Williams 1979 was 6-2. The 1972 Lakers were led by 6-3 West and 6-1 Goodrich, both over 20 ppg.

 

[Minstrel]

Don't over analyze it and insult Roy by doing so. It wuld be the best backcourt in basketball, even if Wade went to Chicago.

I don't think it's over-analysis to wonder if Roy's talents would be wasted being asked to play a Rip Hamilton role and whether the team, if they got Paul, would be better off trading Roy for someone at or near Roy's talent level who wouldn't have to change his game to play with Paul.

Of course, the other option is for Portland to play offense differently. Jordan and Pippen coexisted despite both being play-makers...but they were playing in the triangle. An ISO-heavy offense would indeed have wasted some of what either Jordan or (more likely) Pippen brought to the table. Would McMillan change his offense substantially? If not, would Portland find a new coach expeditiously?

I'd say those are definitely things one should consider, rather than saying it's insulting over-analysis.

 

[RoyToy]

After reading this thread all I have to say is I've heard it all. Jesus....

Kobe, Wade and even LeBron would be worse players if their teams didn't run much ISO through them. What's the difference when you have a premier player you get them the ball and let them go to work.

repped for being logical

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Now picture Paul alongside a smooth shooting guard, a foreign import at small forward, an underappreciated power forward and young talented center and tell me how sick that would be.

Wait a minute – that’s the New Orleans Hornets starting five.

Never mind.

Guess the only time Roy and Paul will be on the same team for the next 10-15 years will be at NBA all-star games representing the West.

-Beyond The Beat; November, 2008

[video=youtube;XJ8u9Ygn_gI]

Here's to hoping PA and Co. stay aggressive and land CP3! In this video CP3 set up Roy and made life easier for him on the court. The second half of this All-Star game it was the Roy/CP3 show.

 

[MrJayremmie]

I would trade almost anyone on our team to get Paul. But I would like to keep Roy and LMA because I think LMA would become an absolute BEAST with Paul (so would Oden, but Paul wouldn't keep Oden healthy).

I'd do a JPEC/Oden/Miller/Bayless/Batum/Rudy/future 1st and take back a contract or two to get Chris Paul. That instantly makes us #2 in the west and a title contender, IMO.

Paul
Roy
Babbitt (excellent shooter which would be greatly needed with Paul and Roy)
LMA
Camby

and then fill out the roster with some vets and hard working players/etc... BAD ASS TEAM! That would make all the heartache we've experienced lately completely worth it and then some.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I'd say those are definitely things one should consider, rather than saying it's insulting over-analysis.

I would have to disagree. ISO or not Roy does not make those around him "worse". Rewatch the last game in LA before Brandon got hurt. The Blazers were playing great basketball at the time. Yes Nate tends to go to the ISO late in games when the Blazers are up, and you can debate that all you want.

But a pick and roll offense is not an ISO offense. And that is what they run mostly. Like every other teams in the league. And Brandon makes his teammates better. Or at least that is what NBA guys actually say. Now t I know they are not the experts we are, but most tend to love his complete game.

Having said all that I want a Chris Paul type player to team up with him in the back court. It would make CP3 better too. He could take a few plays off every quarter. The guys gets worn down by the end of the season, just like BROY

 

[Ed O]

Roy wouldn't put up the same numbers with Paul there, but... so what?

Is the point to maximize Roy's output or to have the best team?

I'll take 95% of current Chris Paul and 80% of current Brandon Roy and somehow live with all the winning we'll do as a result.

Ed O.