Hollinger takes isolation offenses to task

[LittleAlex]

AK47 and Okur have both been All-Stars as well.

Portland has one All-Star player on their roster.

Try again. Utah has two US Olympians, and Okur (All Star in 2007) and Kirilenko (All Star in 2004) on their roster the past 4 years. What has Utah won?

Really? You are going to use Okur and AK-47's completely absurd selections to a single all-star game to prove the team has a powerful roster.

Then Portland had an all-star center B-Roy's first year. After all, Magloire had been to an all-star game two years prior.

 

[BGrantFan]

Really? You are going to use Okur and AK-47's completely absurd selections to a single all-star game to prove the team has a powerful roster.

Then Portland had an all-star center B-Roy's first year. After all, Magloire had been to an all-star game two years prior.

Yeah. Portland had one All-Star player in Magloire. Utah has US 2 Olympians and 2 more former All-Star players. What have they won with Sloan's offense?

 

[oldmangrouch]

Yeah. Portland had one All-Star player in Magloire. Utah has US 2 Olympians and 2 more former All-Star players. What have they won with Sloan's offense?

So, in your opinion, Sloan's offense does not get the most out of his players?

To put it another way, would the same group of players have won more games with a different coach?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Just thought this deserved a bump in light of the Cavs collapse against the Celtics last night. Anybody else real confident in the Blazers chances of winning big in the playoffs, running an offense that features little player or ball movement but doesn't have the greatest player in the game running the controls?

Dwight has some things to say about it too:
http://www.dwightjaynes.com/going-going-gone

Damn, we saw this thing fail again as Cleveland fell to Boston. James got the ball a lot — but with the challenge of weaving his way to the basket against a defense stacked against him. The Celtics basically jumped him with an overloaded defense that had the impact of an old box-and-one. Geesh, we’ve seen this before, haven’t we?

It’s incredible to me how long it’s taken many pro coaches to adjust to the fact that NBA defensive rules have changed and basically zones are legal. Help now can come from all directions and double- and triple-teaming is now so much more possible and prevalent than it used to be. Man, in the old days, you COULD basically play one-on-one.

After watching Brandon Roy and Joe Johnson struggle in that sort of attack this postseason, it was not surprising to watch the best player in the league — James — do the same thing. The Celtics would just not let him get to the basket. You simply can no longer hand the ball to a good player and expect him to “create his own shot” — unless it’s a long jumper.

I’m telling you, Trail Blazer fans, your team is going to have to change. Portland must adapt and evolve with the league. And what’s working now is dribble-drive penetration, flex or passing-game offenses, ball movement, player movement and a share-the-ball mentality. Or Phil Jackson’s triangle. Some may even have to set a good screen once in a while.

Spreading the defense is now going to have to be the No. 1 priority. Heck, people are going to blame LeBron or his teammates, but the fact is, he was swarmed by the defense to such a degree, it was very difficult for him to even pass to open teammates — it’s why James ended up with nine turnovers Thursday night.

 

[LittleAlex]

Just thought this deserved it's own bump in light of the Cavs collapse against the Celtics last night. Anybody else real confident in the Blazers chances of winning big in the playoffs, running an offense that features little player or ball movement but doesn't have the greatest player in the game running the controls?

Dwight has some things to say about it too:
http://www.dwightjaynes.com/going-going-gone

I am confident they won't.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Just thought this deserved a bump in light of the Cavs collapse against the Celtics last night. Anybody else real confident in the Blazers chances of winning big in the playoffs, running an offense that features little player or ball movement but doesn't have the greatest player in the game running the controls?

Dwight has some things to say about it too:
http://www.dwightjaynes.com/going-going-gone

I shall rest comfortably knowing that if there are two things that Nate excels at, it's adapting and evolving.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I shall rest comfortably knowing that if there are two things that Nate excels at, it's adapting and evolving.

LOL, so you're basically saying he's like a cross between

+

Flexible and chameleon-like

 

[e_blazer]

So, let's say that these guys are correct in their analysis and let's also say that Nate is willing to change the offense. Do the Blazers have the pieces right now that they need to really spread defenses out or what changes need to be made? It seems to me that Roy, Nic and LMA are all good fits (although Roy will have to retool his game he certainly has the skills). Greg has the ability to make teams respect his ability to take it to the hole...Joel and Camby not so much. The PG spot seems like the worst fit, with neither Miller or Bayless having a good outside shot. The bench needs a consistent outside threat (or needs Rudy or Webster to grow into that role).

 

[Nikolokolus]

So, let's say that these guys are correct in their analysis and let's also say that Nate is willing to change the offense. Do the Blazers have the pieces right now that they need to really spread defenses out or what changes need to be made? It seems to me that Roy, Nic and LMA are all good fits (although Roy will have to retool his game he certainly has the skills). Greg has the ability to make teams respect his ability to take it to the hole...Joel and Camby not so much. The PG spot seems like the worst fit, with neither Miller or Bayless having a good outside shot. The bench needs a consistent outside threat (or needs Rudy or Webster to grow into that role).

You're absolutely right, this team is still not built to win (completely) and some more tweaks are in store ... this isn't an 'either or' proposition (either the offense or the players) there are varying degrees improvement needed in both the scheme and the roster IMO.

 

[Mediocre Man]

So, let's say that these guys are correct in their analysis and let's also say that Nate is willing to change the offense. Do the Blazers have the pieces right now that they need to really spread defenses out or what changes need to be made? It seems to me that Roy, Nic and LMA are all good fits (although Roy will have to retool his game he certainly has the skills). Greg has the ability to make teams respect his ability to take it to the hole...Joel and Camby not so much. The PG spot seems like the worst fit, with neither Miller or Bayless having a good outside shot. The bench needs a consistent outside threat (or needs Rudy or Webster to grow into that role).

Bayless and Miller are perfect for attacking the basket. With player movement, getting to the rim should be a lot easier for everyone.

 

[e_blazer]

Bayless and Miller are perfect for attacking the basket. With player movement, getting to the rim should be a lot easier for everyone.

They're both great at getting to the basket, but without an outside shot the don't the defenses get away with packing the middle and daring them to shoot?

 

[Blaze01]

The big question is whether or not Nate (or mgmt) views this offense as the problem? I mean if they don't, or haven't seen\learned anything from thier own losses or that of ATL and CLE, then 2011 is doomed to be another repeat....

I just hope they don't fall into the mentality of blaming injuries for thier loss this year...Don't get me wrong, injuries certainly didn't help, but I think it is fool's gold to assume that this team, even healthy, was going to be a title contender running the offensive schemes that they do...

Even as great of player as Lebron is, he proved that you cannot win it all by yourself, and expecting Roy to succeed where Lebron failed is foolish....

 

[Mediocre Man]

They're both great at getting to the basket, but without an outside shot the don't the defenses get away with packing the middle and daring them to shoot?

Trivia question:

What do Russell Westbrook, Rajon Rondo, Rodney Stuckey, Dwayne Wade, Richard Hamilton, Tony Parker, Baron Davis, Devon Harris, Derek Rose and Tyreke Evans all have in common?

 

[e_blazer]

Trivia question:

What do Russell Westbrook, Rajon Rondo, Rodney Stuckey, Dwayne Wade, Richard Hamilton, Tony Parker, Baron Davis, Devon Harris, Derek Rose and Tyreke Evans all have in common?

Presumably the answer you're looking for is a streaky outside shot (although I'd argue that several of them are considerably better than Miller or Bayless).

Follow up trivia question:

How many of those guys have won a title since zone defenses have altered the game?

 

[Mediocre Man]

Presumably the answer you're looking for is a streaky outside shot (although I'd argue that several of them are considerably better than Miller or Bayless).

Follow up trivia question:

How many of those guys have won a title since zone defenses have altered the game?

The answer is that none of them, last year, were better 3 point shooters than Bayless. And most all of them have been mentioned by posters here, at some point, to be players people would like to bring in here.

As for your trivia question.....I'm not sure what year you would consider the zone defense altering the game, but Wade, Parker, Hamilton and Rondo have all won championships within the last 6 years, and all played for one in the last 5 years. In fact with the exception of last year, those players won the title each of the previous 6 years

 

[BrianFromWA]

Trivia question:

What do Russell Westbrook, Rajon Rondo, Rodney Stuckey, Dwayne Wade, Richard Hamilton, Tony Parker, Baron Davis, Devon Harris, Derek Rose and Tyreke Evans all have in common?

They all hog the ball way to much to be in an offense with Brandon?

 

[Mediocre Man]

They all hog the ball way to much to be in an offense with Brandon?

I also would have accepted that answer

 

[e_blazer]

Bayless did improve his perimeter shot this season and hopefully can get better at it. I still have hopes for him being able to grow into the role of Brandon's sidekick. Still, as of right now, no team is going to spend any extra effort to stop JB from launching a 3.

My understanding of what Jaynes and Hollinger are saying is that it's a fairly recent development that coaches are developing defenses to specifically stop iso-heavy offenses. Offenses that can spread the court with strong perimeter shooters and lots of ball movement seem to be their prescription for future success in the playoffs. I'm pretty certain that the reason Nate stuck with Blake so long was his belief that Steve's outside shot would open things up for Roy. Obviously, Blake didn't perform well this season, but I do think that Miller's lack of a shot does make things more difficult for the Blazers.

 

[RoyToy]

I heard the Cavs lost because of McMillan.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I heard the Cavs lost because of McMillan.

Close. They lost because of a McMillan type offense.

 

[RoyToy]

Yup, it's all McMillan's fault.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I think one of the bigger problems is that we worked the offense from 15-18 feet out, and only went inside on a mismatch (Roy drive, Oden deep in the paint, etc.). Someone who's got access to more film than I do can tell me how wrong I am, but it seemed to me that, even when we're "getting our bigs off to a good start" it's LMA popping 15-18 footers. The drive-and-kick was used a lot in the last few years, but it doesn't seem to work against a team that can double the driver and rotate quickly to the shooters--especially when you're not a crisp-passing offense. Aside from the few minutes we've had Oden on the court the last 3 years, our post presences have been Joel Przybilla, Marcus Camby and Juwan Howard. The problem is that when Oden HAS been in, he's been used much like those 3...minus the long jumpers from Howard and Camby. LMA, Howard, Camby, Cunningham all shot the majority of their shots on mid-range jumpers...which I've pointed out ad nauseum is the worst and most inefficient shot in basketball. But it's a hallmark of our offense. And it's not even like we're good at it...LMA shoots 49% (41% on mid-range jumpers). He'd be 20% more efficient just stepping outside and shooting that 31% 3pointer of his much more. Or moving into the paint, where he shoots 57%. Howard shot a respectable 45% from midrange (51% overall), pretty decent for a safety valve, but again not something you build an offense around. Marcus Camby (?!?!) shot half of his shots from the midrange jumper, and averaged the same 45%.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Yup, it's all McMillan's fault.

Mock all you want, but the fact is he was fired from Atlanta because they didn't win in the playoffs. Most of that was because of the ISO offense they ran. Mike Woodson was fired with a .364 playoff winning % the last 2 years and 8 playoff wins. Nate has a .333 playoff winning % and 4 playoff wins over that same span.

Nate = one of the best young coaches in the league, and Mike Woodson just got fired?

Mike Brown has a better record than both, and will likely be fired soon as well.

 

[hasoos]

Mock all you want, but the fact is he was fired from Atlanta because they didn't win in the playoffs. Most of that was because of the ISO offense they ran. Mike Woodson was fired with a .364 playoff winning % the last 2 years and 8 playoff wins. Nate has a .333 playoff winning % and 4 playoff wins over that same span.

Nate = one of the best young coaches in the league, and Mike Woodson just got fired?

Mike Brown has a better record than both, and will likely be fired soon as well.

Yep soon Portland will be the only team in the league running the ISO offense.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Yep soon Portland will be the only team in the league running the ISO offense.

The sneak attack.......I love it!!!!!!! It's like a college team preparing for the wishbone or flex offens before they started being duplicated.

 

[jlprk]

Trivia question:

What do Russell Westbrook, Rajon Rondo, Rodney Stuckey, Dwayne Wade, Richard Hamilton, Tony Parker, Baron Davis, Devon Harris, Derek Rose and Tyreke Evans all have in common?

They'd all be promoted from 3rd team to 2nd team, as long as they didn't get in the way of Roy or Bayless?