How Dare They!!

[BLAZER PROPHET]

[video=youtube;fGXmZ5sOGzE]

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I'll say this. I have an inherent respect for US Presidents, Speakers of the House, Supreme Court justices... but this is fast becoming the most over the top "we don't give a damn about the American public" administration & Congress since Watergate.

 

[MrJayremmie]

Not to be mean, but this happened a couple weeks ago.

It is outrageous none the less, but old.

My opinion of Obama has gone down in the past year. Been really disappointed in a lot of what he is doing, though I also agree with others. As long as by the end of his first term he has our economy growing at a nice percentage and has the unemployment down substantially, as well as the deficit reduced and a plan to continue the reduction, I will be happy.

We'll see. I just want what is best for the country. Whether it comes through a dem or pub. Sadly, i've noticed people who would rather have the country get even worse through Obama's first term so they can take over and be the saviors. All politics. Like I keep saying, they don't give a damn about the American people.

If Obama succeeds we all succeed. The same for Bush. I REALLY disapproved of him, but I would have given anything for him to be a great president that had America at its peak. Just didn't happen. Instead, he ended as one of the worst and left us in shambles.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Not to be mean, but this happened a couple weeks ago.

It is outrageous none the less, but old.

My opinion of Obama has gone down in the past year. Been really disappointed in a lot of what he is doing, though I also agree with others. As long as by the end of his first term he has our economy growing at a nice percentage and has the unemployment down substantially, as well as the deficit reduced and a plan to continue the reduction, I will be happy.

We'll see. I just want what is best for the country. Whether it comes through a dem or pub. Sadly, i've noticed people who would rather have the country get even worse through Obama's first term so they can take over and be the saviors. All politics. Like I keep saying, they don't give a damn about the American people.

If Obama succeeds we all succeed. The same for Bush. I REALLY disapproved of him, but I would have given anything for him to be a great president that had America at its peak. Just didn't happen. Instead, he ended as one of the worst and left us in shambles.

What you're saying is that the end justifies the means. And there's always an argument to made for that way of thinking.

But I prefer openness, honesty, integrity, truthfulness... things like that.

For example, if Obama & Pelosi came out and stated, "we know the majority of the American people don't want thid, but we do. Therefore, we're going to meet in secret, get the job done and screw you- all of you", then I would at least admit they're being open and direct.

But this is living a lie. My respect level for Obama when he was elected was a full 100%. Now it down to about 10%. He's proven that he's a common liar who wanted to be President.

 

[MrJayremmie]

What you're saying is that the end justifies the means.

In a sense, yes. I don't care what he does to get the deficit down. I pretty much don't care what he does to get people working and significantly drop unemployment.

I agree with your post. You have to remember, though, that every administration who hasn't governed on popular consensus has done the "we know what is best for you better than you do" approach. They were elected by the people in a democratic process, so they will push their agenda. It was never more apparent than in the previous Bush administration, where they didn't give a shit about anything but their agenda. But look where that got them and this country. Hopefully Obama will learn.

My respect for Obama has also gone down. But again, i'm going to judge him on results on the day I need to vote for president in 2012.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

In a sense, yes. I don't care what he does to get the deficit down. I pretty much don't care what he does to get people working and significantly drop unemployment.

I agree with your post. You have to remember, though, that every administration who hasn't governed on popular consensus has done the "we know what is best for you better than you do" approach. They were elected by the people in a democratic process, so they will push their agenda. It was never more apparent than in the previous Bush administration, where they didn't give a shit about anything but their agenda. But look where that got them and this country. Hopefully Obama will learn.

My respect for Obama has also gone down. But again, i'm going to judge him on results on the day I need to vote for president in 2012.

As a matter of FACT, I agree with your post completely.

But there is one fatal flaw in it. We must know just what the means is to the end it serves. As an example or two: Obama buys into the "too big to fail" mentality espoused by Brunanke (or however you spell it). But, admittedly, he only buys into it only if it is a union company that serves his political cause. As a result, he has spent tens of billions of dollars, given to the union, to keep GM afloat. Then he gave the majority of the company to the union with a pledge to spend whatever public money is necessary to continue and perpetuate the union retirement plan for workers who retired with full pay as early as age 48. So one could argue that the end (continued employment for union members in a perpetually bankuipt company making crappy cars and keeping retired union workers from having to work again) justifies the means (continual billion dollar payouts from the general budget). Money that could be spent so much better. And then what about millions of non union health care workers Obama & the union are trying to put out on the street for the sake of a National Health Care plan unpopular with the majority of the American public and guaranteed to keep us bankrupt as a nation that Obama has placed past the point of no return. So for those people who do want the National plan, does that end justify the means?

I think not- in both cases.

So now we have our top elected officials conducting secret meetings, making policy in secret and keeping it from the GOP, and thereby instituting a type of full on communism against not only the government, the constitution, but us as well. And so long as they get results, it makes no difference how we get there ot what the cost is in human lives and suffering?

No, no, in a free society with supposedly open government, the end does not justify the means. Those means have to comply with the constitution, our basic rights to freedom, open government and must not be made by a despot in a closed and secretive way. That make the words "government by the people, for the people, and of the people" false and hallow words indeed. Obama, Pelosi & Reid have started down that road- how long will it continue?

 

[MrJayremmie]

So now we have our top elected officials conducting secret meetings, making policy in secret and keeping it from the GOP, and thereby instituting a type of full on communism against not only the government, the constitution, but us as well. And so long as they get results, it makes no difference how we get there ot what the cost is in human lives and suffering?

I agree with your post, but lets not pretend the GOP didn't do these things when they were in power. When they did it it was just called secrecy and corruption, while if the left does it, it is called communism.

But I think our government is incredibly fucked up and has its priorities screwed up. I'm tired of the secrecy. One of Obama's campaign promises was to end the secrecy of the Bush admin. Now, he may be less secret than Bush, but that isn't saying alot. That is another broken campaign promise.

As for the ends and the means, i'm figuring that if he was to get our economy growing at a nice %, reduce unemployment by a good amount and reduce the deficit with a budget plan to continue reducing it, I think that those accomplishments wouldn't be done by any type of radical policies. I think in order to do this, he will have to move more to the center (though he is closer to the center than many on the right think, which is why the progressives have been on his case) and go more of the Clinton route (I love Bill). He would need bi-partisanship (hard to get) as well. So we will see. But i'm not one of those people that believes if Obama succeeds America fails. On the contrary, I believe if Obama succeeds and our country is booming again, then America wins. Obviously, his policies must have worked.

But I know what you are saying. Again, I will judge him mainly on the ends, and somewhat on the means. But i'm pretty Okay with Obama's agenda from how I understand it.

As for healthcare, lets remember that 55%(ish) of people wanted a public option, and a HUGE majority think our system needs reform (90%ish). So while they haven't approved of the way he has been handling it (the right or the far left haven't approved as he has done it from a center-left angle), they understand that his intentions are noble (I hope so at least). It was good of him to say we shouldn't rush legislation before Brown gets seated because the American people spoke and their selection should be a part of this. I think he is just trying to do what is best for a country that was in very bad shape when he took office. I don't know how much better any president would have done in his shoes.

He needs to get whatever he can on health care, preferably just pass amendments separately, and then focus on the economy (jobs). I think that is what he is going to be doing, which is the correct move.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I agree with your post, but lets not pretend the GOP didn't do these things when they were in power. When they did it it was just called secrecy and corruption, while if the left does it, it is called communism.

Yes, to a lesser extent, the GOP was guilty of this as well. But I saw the problems with the last GOP Congress as ineptness.

 

[oldguy]

All the campaign bs about transparency in government before the election. SPECIFIC promises about transparency for heath care reform legislation. Walnut and pea games with $700B of your and my tax dollars. I guess there must be something he promised that he has followed through with, but it escapes me.

Obama will need to regain the public's trust if he is to be successful. He's not going to gain that by showing that he doesn't stand behind the things he says. The country NEEDS he to be successful. As Rice would say, "SOMEONE NEEDS TO STEP UP!"

I shake my head at the arguments I read (not just this thread) that excuses this president's performance because Bush was worse, or the Republicans do it too. That argument sets the bar so low that any garden variety felon can meet the standards. Bush will go down as one of the worst ever. What kind of excuse is Obama is no worse? I except better from Obama...a lot better.

The Dems should be careful of pointing at the Pubs when the Dems are in bed with ACORN. ACORN is as slimy as it gets.

Why doesn't EVERYONE demand better? For all that's written about politics is this forum, I wonder how many of us has written to our elected officials and expressed our frustration? We need to be telling them that we expect better from our leaders, that we NEED better from them, and that, by God, if they can't/won't do better, that the VOTE THEM ALL OUT sentiment will return with a vengeance.

Go Blazers

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

All the campaign bs about transparency in government before the election. SPECIFIC promises about transparency for heath care reform legislation. Walnut and pea games with $700B of your and my tax dollars. I guess there must be something he promised that he has followed through with, but it escapes me.

Obama will need to regain the public's trust if he is to be successful. He's not going to gain that by showing that he doesn't stand behind the things he says. The country NEEDS he to be successful. As Rice would say, "SOMEONE NEEDS TO STEP UP!"

I shake my head at the arguments I read (not just this thread) that excuses this president's performance because Bush was worse, or the Republicans do it too. That argument sets the bar so low that any garden variety felon can meet the standards. Bush will go down as one of the worst ever. What kind of excuse is Obama is no worse? I except better from Obama...a lot better.

The Dems should be careful of pointing at the Pubs when the Dems are in bed with ACORN. ACORN is as slimy as it gets.

Why doesn't EVERYONE demand better? For all that's written about politics is this forum, I wonder how many of us has written to our elected officials and expressed our frustration? We need to be telling them that we expect better from our leaders, that we NEED better from them, and that, by God, if they can't/won't do better, that the VOTE THEM ALL OUT sentiment will return with a vengeance.

Go Blazers

+1.