How many of you agree with this........?

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Somewhere down the road I could see both Clemens & Bonds getting in. Clemens because we really don't know what he #s were prior to using and may have been well on his way to the HOF anyway. The same can be said about Bonds. Most believe that he started using after all the 1998 attention of the McGwire/Sosa HR chase that Selig turned a blind eye to & cheered on. So in Bonds case as I said he was presumed guilty from 1999-2004. But prior to 1999 Bonds had already had over 400 HRs over 400 SBs, a near 300 aver, 8 GGs & 3 MVP awards. So these facts may be looked at for these two players.

McGwire will never get in because unlike Bonds McGwire was a one dimensional player (power). I do think that players suspected of but never failed tests should get in if the #s warrant it (Bagwell/Piazza). JMO.
 
...have you noticed that none of those guys are doing any commercials or are asked to be spokesmen or endorsers of products or companies?...and it will be the same for ARod and Braun and others.

...some of these players may eventually get into the HOF but I do think it's right to make them wait a good while before they are inducted to help send a clear message to other future would be PED users. Bonds and Clemens were two of the best performers of their generation but though it's pretty much understood that they were users, neither will admit to taking "vitamins"...and I don't think they should even be considered until they do.
...they have lied to us, the press, their team mates, etc., much like Rose did for years, and many people have stood up for him, only to find out later that they were lied to.

...I hold the PED users just as accountable for their duplicity.
 
I'm conflicted about this. If you and I were players during that era, we would be looking for any competitive advantage that would help increase our abilities thus our careers. Keep in mind, MLB had not banned any of the substances that are now known to enhance performance. In addition, this was a period where athletes were learning about all these new methods to enhance performance and avoid injury over a long 162 game schedule. In many ways, MLB was caught with their pants down. When became apparent that "Chicks dig Long Ball" the toothpaste was out of the tube, stadiums were full following Mac, Bonds and Sosa. Owners were banking the money, without regard to the history and records that make baseball so great. One player for example, Andy P, when he stood up and said he was a user, his confession set him free in the eyes of the fans who although not willing to vote him into the Hall, embraced him from that point forward. Then there were the others who failed to confess, who lied to the Senate, and forever put the black eye on all players of that era. You can't compare Rose, who's on field accomplishments were never questioned. As far as character, they all must deal with the truth. All of those players mentioned in the articles are multi millionaires. They want for nothing. I expect in 20 years, as a new generation of writers and fans evolve, there will be a few who will make the Hall. Clemens will be the first I feel, Bonds, he's will wait a very long time, perhaps after he dead. I feel integrity is the key, and thus it may take confessions and pleas of the offenders to enter the Hall.
 
Last edited:
Frank he's a little bit of history that I dug out from my files. You may find it interesting.

These are the top 5 HR hitters who hit the most HRs over a 5 year period.

#1) Sammy Sosa.............(292) (aver 58.2 per year) 1998-2002
#2) Mark McGwire............(284) (aver 56.4 per year) 1995-1999
#3) Barry Bonds..............(258) (aver 51.3 per year) 2000-2004
#4) Babe Ruth................(256) (aver 51.1 per year) 1926-1930
#5) Ken Griffey Jr............(249) (aver 49.4 per year) 1996-2000

If you're wondering A-Rod was 6th. Here's a few notes on the top 5..........

Sammy Sosa is one of only 3 players to have had 4 50 HR seasons (McGwire & Ruth) Not only did this hot dog have 4 consecutive 50 HR seasons (the only player to ever do this) but 3 of those years he hit over 60 HRs.

Mark McGwire also part of the 4 time 50 HR club & is the only player to have had both a 60 & 70 Hr season.

Barry Bonds had only one season of 50 or more HRs.

Babe Ruth (No comment).

And finally Ken Griffey Jr. I may be among the few here but I'm not so sure he was as Mr clean as people say. I mean with all the power this guy displayed during the steroid era including back to back 56 HR seasons, why does he get a pass? And don't say because his body never changed. Think Brady Anderson & Luis Gonzales. JMO.
 
Last edited:
...I understand the unfortunate stigma associated with many players of the PEDS era but in Bonds' and ARod's cases, and to a lesser degree, Clemens, they really compounded their situations by also being so unlikable and polarizing.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...I understand the unfortunate stigma associated with many players of the PEDS era but in Bonds' and ARod's cases, and to a lesser degree, Clemens, they really compounded their situations by also being so unlikable and polarizing.
Click to expand...

Yeah you're right, that certainly doesn't help there cases.
 
I remember discussing the "vitamin pills" with an individual back in '08 shortly after the Mitchell Report was released. His justification for their usage was that players were trying to lengthen their careers and make more money so they could take care of their families. Somehow I cant sympathize with that when the biggies were already making millions. When Joe Doaks on the street gets caught with stuff that enhances his extra-curricular activities it the slammer. I've got a feeling that players who were steamed over the Peralta contract will band together for more stringent punishments. HOF candidates who are suspect should hold their places in line. Knowing the current end results of "usage" I'd have to say that todays players who get caught using are gambling with their careers if caught. Gambling, isn't that what Rose did.
 
Rick2583 said:
Frank he's a little bit of history that I dug out from my files. You may find it interesting.

These are the top 5 HR hitters who hit the most HRs over a 5 year period.

#1) Sammy Sosa.............(292) (aver 58.2 per year) 1998-2002
#2) Mark McGwire............(284) (aver 56.4 per year) 1995-1999
#3) Barry Bonds..............(258) (aver 51.3 per year) 2000-2004
#4) Babe Ruth................(256) (aver 51.1 per year) 1926-1930
#5) Ken Griffey Jr............(249) (aver 49.4 per year) 1996-2000

If you're wondering A-Rod was 6th. Here's a few notes on the top 5..........

Sammy Sosa is one of only 3 players to have had 4 50 HR seasons (McGwire & Ruth) Not only did this hot dog have 4 consecutive 50 HR seasons (the only player to ever do this) but 3 of those years he hit over 60 HRs.

Mark McGwire also part of the 4 time 50 HR club & is the only player to have had both a 60 & 70 Hr season.

Barry Bonds had only one season of 50 or more HRs.

Babe Ruth (No comment).

And finally Ken Griffey Jr. I may be among the few here but I'm not so sure he was as Mr clean as people say. I mean with all the power this guy displayed during the steroid era including back to back 56 HR seasons, why does he get a pass? And don't say because his body never changed. Think Brady Anderson & Luis Gonzales. JMO.
Click to expand...

When you look at the players you listed, it jumps out at you that those names were consistently the names of that era. As I mentioned above, who knows who used, my feeling they were all getting juiced including the 190 utility infielder, and with the exception of inflating the players career starts, all they had to do is be honest. In the spirit of Bill Clinton, and Gov. Eddie Edwards, who's motto was "Sure I'm a crook but I'm your crook", all these players needed to do is say I used because everyone was and MLB hadn't banned anything at that point and I feel they all would be forgiven and more widely accepted. Hall of fame worthy, I don't know. But to look at Bonds body with the Pirates as a rookie and then later with the Giants, c'mon man lol.
 
Mixed feelings on this but my opinion is unfortunately since baseball still doesn't know who is and isn't using because of the expert masking agents out there, my latest example is the 12 that were just suspended that not one of them tested positive despite them actually using. I think eventually guys like bonds and clemens that were great before the steroids will get in and others that were 1 trick ponies like mcguire and sosa will not. Maybe they open up a new steroid wing in the hall. At any rate I still hope pete Rose gets in one day as his discretions came after his career as a player and with the pampering of the modern ballplayer will always have the most hits in baseball history record.
 
Rose was reported to have also to have bet on games back in the 80's as a player while with the Phillies. Those reports have not been confirmed, but since Rose is a proven liar, he cannot disprove them either.
...the guy staunchly denied betting for over 15 years and team mates like Bench and Morgan et al, stood behind him...ask those people what they think of Rose now.
 
Last edited:
Rick2583 said:
Somewhere down the road I could see both Clemens & Bonds getting in. Clemens because we really don't know what he #s were prior to using and may have been well on his way to the HOF anyway. The same can be said about Bonds. Most believe that he started using after all the 1998 attention of the McGwire/Sosa HR chase that Selig turned a blind eye to & cheered on. So in Bonds case as I said he was presumed guilty from 1999-2004. But prior to 1999 Bonds had already had over 400 HRs over 400 SBs, a near 300 aver, 8 GGs & 3 MVP awards. So these facts may be looked at for these two players.

McGwire will never get in because unlike Bonds McGwire was a one dimensional player (power). I do think that players suspected of but never failed tests should get in if the #s warrant it (Bagwell/Piazza). JMO.
Click to expand...

Clemens, maybe, Bonds, no way in hell
 
Sammy Sosa appears to me to be the biggest fraud who obviously padded his stats astronomically with the use of Peds.

Say what you want about McGwire but he was ALWAYS known as a LEGITIMATE prolific HR hitter from his days in College (set the Pac 10 HR record) and as a MLB rookie when he set the all time single season HR record (for rookies).....

Sosa's HR numbers in his LATTER YEARS as a player were an insult to my intelligence. (how about you?)

Bonds was always a terrific all around player before his miraculous outlandish "rebirth" numbers when he was 35-39 years old (!)...he averaged approx 1 HR every 13 ABs prior to those years and barely batted .290 for his career. Do the math..and make me laugh.......but I could see him being a HOFer if he finished his career with comparable numbers to his previous seasons.

Sammy Sosa (imo) is the poster boy for elevating his "numbers" with the benefit of the almightY PEDS.

This guy should by DROPPED from future HOF considerations.

period- end of story.
 
Not taking anything away from McGwire power wise but as I mentioned that was it. He was a one trick pony. I can't stand the bastard because of his phony bullshit display when he went into the stand & embraced the Maris family after hitting his 62nd HR knowing he cheated to do it.
 
blgridesagain said:
Sammy Sosa appears to me to be the biggest fraud who obviously padded his stats astronomically with the use of Peds.

Say what you want about McGwire but he was ALWAYS known as a LEGITIMATE prolific HR hitter from his days in College (set the Pac 10 HR record) and as a MLB rookie when he set the all time single season HR record (for rookies).....

Sosa's HR numbers in his LATTER YEARS as a player were an insult to my intelligence. (how about you?)

Bonds was always a terrific all around player before his miraculous outlandish "rebirth" numbers when he was 35-39 years old (!)...he averaged approx 1 HR every 13 ABs prior to those years and barely batted .290 for his career. Do the math..and make me laugh.......but I could see him being a HOFer if he finished his career with comparable numbers to his previous seasons.

Sammy Sosa (imo) is the poster boy for elevating his "numbers" with the benefit of the almightY PEDS.

This guy should by DROPPED from future HOF considerations.

period- end of story.
Click to expand...




...and don't forget this;

[video=youtube;WrXVdwIGfuI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrXVdwIGfuI[/video]
 
Rick2583 said:
Frank he's a little bit of history that I dug out from my files. You may find it interesting.

These are the top 5 HR hitters who hit the most HRs over a 5 year period.

#1) Sammy Sosa.............(292) (aver 58.2 per year) 1998-2002
#2) Mark McGwire............(284) (aver 56.4 per year) 1995-1999
#3) Barry Bonds..............(258) (aver 51.3 per year) 2000-2004
#4) Babe Ruth................(256) (aver 51.1 per year) 1926-1930
#5) Ken Griffey Jr............(249) (aver 49.4 per year) 1996-2000

If you're wondering A-Rod was 6th. Here's a few notes on the top 5..........

Sammy Sosa is one of only 3 players to have had 4 50 HR seasons (McGwire & Ruth) Not only did this hot dog have 4 consecutive 50 HR seasons (the only player to ever do this) but 3 of those years he hit over 60 HRs.

Mark McGwire also part of the 4 time 50 HR club & is the only player to have had both a 60 & 70 Hr season.

Barry Bonds had only one season of 50 or more HRs.

Babe Ruth (No comment).

And finally Ken Griffey Jr. I may be among the few here but I'm not so sure he was as Mr clean as people say. I mean with all the power this guy displayed during the steroid era including back to back 56 HR seasons, why does he get a pass? And don't say because his body never changed. Think Brady Anderson & Luis Gonzales. JMO.
Click to expand...

I have no doubt that #4 and #5 on that list should be (or are) in... I do firmly believe the kid was clean. McQwire had what, 49 his rookie season? so if anything, I'd give him a pass over Bonds...
 
Steve with almost 250 HRs over a 5 year span including back to back 56 HR seasons why would you say Griffey is clean? I just don't know what putting up simular crazy #s as others during the roid era why he gets a free pass. And please don't say because his body never changed, neither did Anderson's or Gonzales. Just curious.
 
Rick2583 said:
Steve with almost 250 HRs over a 5 year span including back to back 56 HR seasons why would you say Griffey is clean? I just don't know what putting up simular crazy #s as others during the roid era why he gets a free pass. And please don't say because his body never changed, neither did Anderson's or Gonzales. Just curious.
Click to expand...

But Babe had just over 250 in a 5 year period (in shorter seasons) so is he a juicer too? Just because someone banged them out doesn't necessarily mean he was a juicer. Bonds has definitively been linked to PEDs, McGwire has definitively been linked to PEDs, Sosa has definitively been linked to PEDs and a corked bat... Ruth hasn't, Griffey hasn't... and I believe for good reason.
 
We are forgetting the watered down pitching talent of the erase well as the juiced ball.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
 
Let's only discredit some players but Brady Anderson hitting 50 hrs in a season....

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
 
Hammerojustice said:
But Babe had just over 250 in a 5 year period (in shorter seasons) so is he a juicer too? Just because someone banged them out doesn't necessarily mean he was a juicer. Bonds has definitively been linked to PEDs, McGwire has definitively been linked to PEDs, Sosa has definitively been linked to PEDs and a corked bat... Ruth hasn't, Griffey hasn't... and I believe for good reason.
Click to expand...

Griffey also launched a ton of those homers into RF in the Kingdome. And he had "smooth" power--witness him in the '93 HR derby (before any of the PED stuff was coming to light).

Those 5 years he had Buhner and ARod hitting behind him and was getting decent pitches to hit by watered-down pitching in a potentially-juiced ball era.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top