I am PISSED at our medical staff!

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Sometimes when people talk, they contradict themselves. I guess my thresh hold for calling it "lying" is higher.
Fair enough. Like I said, he doesn't need to explain it to me. But I'm a fan of when players/coaches/GMs do stand up to explain themselves, that it makes sense and is as much truth as possible. If this really was just a contradiction, ok. Seems odd, though.

The way I interpret all of these statements is that it didn't feel perfect, but it felt good enough to give it a try. After playing a bit it no longer felt like he should continue playing on it so he stopped.

I guess that's where the disagreement is. From all the sources, it seemed to me that he felt ok in practice and drills, so he tried going harder in warmups. He didn't feel like he should play game speed for whatever reason (though I'd say "feeling great" wasn't one of the reasons). After a talk with Nate, 20 minutes later he was the starter. After the game, his response to the criticism about why the heck he played was that he "felt great" in warmups. Just doesn't make sense to me. But I won't clog the thread further...bottom line is that he's hurt and not playing for a while.
 
I don't buy that for a second.

What is this miracle cure for ALL hamstring injuries that works for every player regardless of the extent of the injury? It's funny that no sports teams have heard of this despite the fact that they pay tens of millions to their athletes...
Open your eyes a bit wider and look outside the sport... The team had an inkling of that notion in looking to the NFL's treatment methods, but it was probably more complex than necessary. You rarely see football players slowed by hamstring problems for any great length of time. Some of it is probably due to the 'toughness' mentality of the sport, but they are able to get ample treatment to play through it. Of greater interest is track and field, the sport that places arguably the greatest stresses on hamstrings and which deals with them much more effectively than has been the case with Roy. When's the last time you heard of a professional track athlete missing more than a couple weeks with a hamstring problem? It doesn't happen, because the sport believes 100% in deep tissue massage therapy. That is the wonder treatment. No fancy equipment, just a knowledge of the muscles and tendons. I've fully treated "muscle off the bone," supposed end-of-the-career hamstring injuries with sprinters, and there are therapists much better than myself. An average massage therapist will have little to no effect... A great one will solve the problem within a couple sessions. (I'm talking from experience about other people's work on me, not bragging about my own work.) If the team hasn't sought out the best massage therapists available, then they have failed their fans. Rest alone has never healed a hamstring, as far as I know. It just delays the inevitable -- reinjury.
 
What the EFF was Brandon playing for last night! Now his hamstring's hurt again? I just don't understand it! :confused: He said he still felt tightness in the hamstring and they still let him play! I'm not a doctor, but I've read about hamstring injuries and what I know is all that you can do is have the person REST. You rest it until you don't feel it anymore and THEN you can play. Our medical staff has got to go.

He was testing it to see how it would do. Don't be so emotional.
 
Open your eyes a bit wider and look outside the sport... The team had an inkling of that notion in looking to the NFL's treatment methods, but it was probably more complex than necessary. You rarely see football players slowed by hamstring problems for any great length of time. Some of it is probably due to the 'toughness' mentality of the sport, but they are able to get ample treatment to play through it. Of greater interest is track and field, the sport that places arguably the greatest stresses on hamstrings and which deals with them much more effectively than has been the case with Roy. When's the last time you heard of a professional track athlete missing more than a couple weeks with a hamstring problem? It doesn't happen, because the sport believes 100% in deep tissue massage therapy. That is the wonder treatment. No fancy equipment, just a knowledge of the muscles and tendons. I've fully treated "muscle off the bone," supposed end-of-the-career hamstring injuries with sprinters, and there are therapists much better than myself. An average massage therapist will have little to no effect... A great one will solve the problem within a couple sessions. (I'm talking from experience about other people's work on me, not bragging about my own work.) If the team hasn't sought out the best massage therapists available, then they have failed their fans. Rest alone has never healed a hamstring, as far as I know. It just delays the inevitable -- reinjury.

1. Brandon DID do a session of the plasma therapy.
1a. Paul Allen OWNS A FOOTBALL team, so obviously he knows what's involved.

2. Track athletes are all on drugs...LOL...so I would hardly point to them as the prime example of athlete care. **and you asked how many times I hear about track athletes with hamstring injuries...since I never hear anything about track athletes except during the olympics, I don't think that proves much.

3. I believe your views are just a little bit clouded by the fact that you're involved in that area of treatment. I'd love to see objective research on how effective it is related to other methods and rest.
 
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Fair enough. Like I said, he doesn't need to explain it to me. But I'm a fan of when players/coaches/GMs do stand up to explain themselves, that it makes sense and is as much truth as possible. If this really was just a contradiction, ok. Seems odd, though.



I guess that's where the disagreement is. From all the sources, it seemed to me that he felt ok in practice and drills, so he tried going harder in warmups. He didn't feel like he should play game speed for whatever reason (though I'd say "feeling great" wasn't one of the reasons). After a talk with Nate, 20 minutes later he was the starter. After the game, his response to the criticism about why the heck he played was that he "felt great" in warmups. Just doesn't make sense to me. But I won't clog the thread further...bottom line is that he's hurt and not playing for a while.

which is pretty much taking me from a real high on the Blazers yesterday to a real low today... sucks ass!
 
1. Brandon DID do a session of the plasma therapy.
1a. Paul Allen OWNS A FOOTBALL team, so obviously he knows what's involved.
Re-read my second sentence... I already alluded to that.

2. Track athletes are all on drugs...LOL...so I would hardly point to them as the prime example of athlete care.
So, you're going to dismiss a whole area of injury prevention and treatment by lumping it with training aids?

**and you asked how many times I hear about track athletes with hamstring injuries...since I never hear anything about track athletes except during the olympics, I don't think that proves much.
Yeah, ignorance is a perfect excuse for a lack of options. ;)

3. I believe your views are just a little bit clouded by the fact that you're involved in that area of treatment. I'd love to see objective research on how effective it is related to other methods and rest.
Uh... Let me see if I got this right. Having knowledge of a situation gives one less clarity in commenting on it? Go ahead and waste time searching for your research... I'll stick with the tried and trusted treatment that works every time.

p.s. Your resistance to the idea is natural and is exactly why medical staffs so often get it wrong. It flies in the face of what the medical community is generally taught.
 
Re-read my second sentence... I already alluded to that.


So, you're going to dismiss a whole area of injury prevention and treatment by lumping it with training aids?


Yeah, ignorance is a perfect excuse for a lack of options. ;)


Uh... Let me see if I got this right. Having knowledge of a situation gives one less clarity in commenting on it? Go ahead and waste time searching for your research... I'll stick with the tried and trusted treatment that works every time.

p.s. Your resistance to the idea is natural and is exactly why medical staffs so often get it wrong. It flies in the face of what the medical community is generally taught.

LOL - You are obviously on a massage crusade...I get it.

Calling me ignorant when you're the one claiming there is a full proof 100% guaranteed cure for Brandon's hamstring and that miracle is some good deep tissue massage...uggg. I'm just guessing, but I'll bet you also believe that some aroma therapy and crystals might help too, eh?

You stick with your anecdotal evidence that supports the position you want to believe...I'll stick with the belief that the Blazers and their $82 Million investment are investigating every therapy available and know more about actual results than you...:chestbump:
 
Calling me ignorant when you're the one claiming there is a full proof 100% guaranteed cure for Brandon's hamstring and that miracle is some good deep tissue massage...uggg. I'm just guessing, but I'll bet you also believe that some aroma therapy and crystals might help too, eh?
Wrong. Rather ironic statement, though, coming from someone with "hippie" in their handle.

You stick with your anecdotal evidence that supports the position you want to believe...I'll stick with the belief that the Blazers and their $82 Million investment are investigating every therapy available and know more about actual results than you...
1) They aren't getting good results with Roy's hammy, which implies that they do not know more about actual results.

2) All the talk yesterday and today is about Roy testing the hammy to see if it's ready to go, gauge the level of tightness, etc. I don't know for a fact that they haven't hit him with good deep tissue work, but I'm guessing they haven't because of these comments. Reason being, it is easy to tell from probing if things are still too tight. No guesswork necessary. Athletes are always amazed that you can tell where the problem spots are just by feel... The muscles and tendons reveal a wealth of information if you know what to look for.
 
Maybe Nate nudged him and maybe he didn't.

I tend to think he did.

And I also think he OVERUSED Brandon last night. With an injury like that he should have eased back into a routine instead of being thrown to the wolves and playing 14 minutes in the first half...essentially playing until the hammy gave way.

When Nic Batum came back he had a limit on PT which the coach EXCEEDED.

I think Nate is guilty again, only this time with more disasterous consequences.
 
Blazer_hippie, one thing you gotta know about massage therapists: they are incredibly defensive about the legitimacy of massage. It's something they have to fight over with insurance companies and doctors all the time. You will find no more myopic or staunch defender of massage as a solution for damn near everything from headaches to bad dreams than a massage therapist.

It's not a bad thing to defend your profession, though... I'm just saying you're not going to win this argument against handiman, no matter how much science you have to back it up. At the end it will come down to "what could it hurt to try a little deep tissue massage?"
 
LOL - You are obviously on a massage crusade...I get it.

Calling me ignorant when you're the one claiming there is a full proof 100% guaranteed cure for Brandon's hamstring and that miracle is some good deep tissue massage...uggg. I'm just guessing, but I'll bet you also believe that some aroma therapy and crystals might help too, eh?

You stick with your anecdotal evidence that supports the position you want to believe...I'll stick with the belief that the Blazers and their $82 Million investment are investigating every therapy available and know more about actual results than you...:chestbump:


Blazer Hippie I enjoy reading your posts but I think you are being a bit critical here and quick to dismiss a treatment option that may very well benefit Roy's hammy. I am a podiatrist so I do have medical knowledge about varying treatment options (even if it doesn't necessarily pertain to my field of expertise. Deep tissue massage is a form of therapy that can break up old scar tissue (Remember Roy injured his hamstring last season I believe against Toronto) and increase blood flow to the injured area which DOES help promote healing. In my practice, I have a physical therapist who I refer patients to after significant ankle injuries. She works on breaking up the adhesions as well as the inflammation within the tendons and the tendon sheaths. She also does infrared therapy (again to increase blood flow to the area).
With Roy injuring his hamstring last year and again this year in the same location it is obvious that he had some prior damage that never fully healed. While deep tissue massage technique might not be the only treatment he needs it certainly would not hurt in breaking up the old/new scar tissue in the area.
 
Blazer_hippie, one thing you gotta know about massage therapists: they are incredibly defensive about the legitimacy of massage. It's something they have to fight over with insurance companies and doctors all the time. You will find no more myopic or staunch defender of massage as a solution for damn near everything from headaches to bad dreams than a massage therapist.

It's not a bad thing to defend your profession, though... I'm just saying you're not going to win this argument against handiman, no matter how much science you have to back it up. At the end it will come down to "what could it hurt to try a little deep tissue massage?"

Agree entirely! I can think of 5 massage therapists that I hang out with regularly...it's weird once you befriend one of them...more and more keep showing up around you!


Blazer Hippie I enjoy reading your posts but I think you are being a bit critical here and quick to dismiss a treatment option that may very well benefit Roy's hammy. I am a podiatrist so I do have medical knowledge about varying treatment options (even if it doesn't necessarily pertain to my field of expertise. Deep tissue massage is a form of therapy that can break up old scar tissue (Remember Roy injured his hamstring last season I believe against Toronto) and increase blood flow to the injured area which DOES help promote healing. In my practice, I have a physical therapist who I refer patients to after significant ankle injuries. She works on breaking up the adhesions as well as the inflammation within the tendons and the tendon sheaths. She also does infrared therapy (again to increase blood flow to the area).
With Roy injuring his hamstring last year and again this year in the same location it is obvious that he had some prior damage that never fully healed. While deep tissue massage technique might not be the only treatment he needs it certainly would not hurt in breaking up the old/new scar tissue in the area.

I agree that it can definitely provide benefit...without a doubt.

My main beef was the whole way it came up, and acting as if deep tissue massage is a miracle cure for hamstrings regardless of the severity of the injury. And, to act as if it's ignored by teams paying athletes millions of dollars...it just isn't logical. :vulcan:

And in fact...Roy is doing massage:
http://www.iamatrailblazersfan.com/.../188/EntryID/687/BroadcasterID/4/Default.aspx
 
That isn't exactly what it says...

You can massage, ice, heat and apparently inject platelets into the general area to help speed up the healing process, but none of those treatments are guaranteed to work, as we’re seeing with Brandon Roy.
It says you can do those things and that none of them are guaranteed to work. The sloppiness of the wording leaves the last piece open to interpretation... He hasn't necessarily tried all of them. However, I would guess the team has tried at least cursory deep tissue work. But as I stated previously, there is a huge range of effectiveness depending on the competence of the therapist. In my experience, medical training and massage expertise are nearly mutually exclusive, so unless Roy has gone to someone outside the training staff, it probably hasn't been done well.
 
That isn't exactly what it says...


It says you can do those things and that none of them are guaranteed to work. The sloppiness of the wording leaves the last piece open to interpretation... He hasn't necessarily tried all of them. However, I would guess the team has tried at least cursory deep tissue work. But as I stated previously, there is a huge range of effectiveness depending on the competence of the therapist. In my experience, medical training and massage expertise are nearly mutually exclusive, so unless Roy has gone to someone outside the training staff, it probably hasn't been done well.

Well I hope he goes here: http://pamelamassage.com/ :lol:

And I probably agree that it would be great for him to go to a specialized therapist for his massage...outside the training staff. I KNEW WE COULD FIND COMMON GROUND! And for the record I have used deep massage and Chiro for my back...

:grouphug:
 
The Blazers need to look into this approach

T.J. Murphy
Triathlete magazine

The chronic muscle tear is probably the third most common injury among all groups of runner, writes Dr. Timothy Noakes, the quintessential runner/doctor in his encyclopedic work, The Lore of Running (1991, Leisure Press).
I came across these words in my own frantic quest for an answer to a hamstring injury that had plagued me for nine months. The words that leaped up at me from off the page were the following:

Chronic muscle tears are usually misdiagnosed, can be very debilitating and will respond to only one kind of treatment The characteristic feature is the gradual onset of pain, in contrast to the acute muscle tears dramatically sudden onset of pain. This characteristic matched my problem exactly.

In contract to bone or tendon injuries, both of which improve with sufficient rest, chronic muscle tears will never improve unless the correct treatment is prescribed.

Noakes' book rang another bell for me here, as I had tried taking days off, and later weeks with no running, only to lace up my shoes, hit the road and feel as if, in terms of my injury, an hour hadnt passed. Noakes goes on to say that he was witness to one runner who had struggled with a chronic tear for five years.

Noakes advises that you can identify a chronic tear with the help of a physiotherapist having him or her plunge two fingers deep into the location of the pain and search for a hard and tender knot. Noakes states that if a knot is found, then youre dealing with a chronic tear. In my case, the knot was very easy to find, deep in the belly of the left hamstring and hard as a marble.

Noakes believes that, while the mechanism behind a chronic tear is unknown at this point, specific sites on the body that digest large amounts of pounding (from running mileage), overuse (an endurance-sport given), and high-intensity loads (from speed or power training) are the areas most likely to sustain this type of injury.

Noakes observed that chronic tears tend to show their ugliness when an athlete makes an increase in mileage and/or intensity. In my case, I could jog around forever without much problem, but when I tried to run at any speed faster than seven-minute pace, I found myself rapidly reduced to an infuriating limp.

Conventional treatment, including drugs and cortisone injections, is a waste of time in this injury, writes Noakes, and he goes on to illustrate the technique he deems effective: cross-friction muscle massage, a physiotherapeutic technique detailed in the 10th edition of the British Textbook of Orthopedic Medicine.

The maneuvers are applied directly to the injury site, perpendicular to the injured muscle, and must be applied vigorously. If the cross-friction treatment does not reduce the athlete to tears, either the diagnosis is wrong and should be reconsidered or the physiotherapist is being too kind.

Five to 10 five-minute sessions of cross-friction should correct the problem, says Noakes, but more may be necessary depending on how long the athlete has had the injury.

Runners Worlds Dr. George Sheehan had once forwarded a desperate letter to Noakes from a runner who had tried everything to overcome a chronic muscle tear, having suffered from the tear for more than a year. Noakes wrote to the runner, advising him of the cross-friction techniques. He also suggested that he stay away from static stretching exercises, as it would only exacerbate the problem until it was sufficiently healed.

As I mentioned, when I found the Noakes material, I had made no progress whatsoever in getting effective treatment. Within a week of cross-frictions and no stretching, I observed a substantial and positive change in the strength within my hamstring. A month later, I was able to perform speed workouts again without deteriorating into a limp.

Once a chronic muscle tear has been tamed, an athlete should work aggressively to prevent a recurrence of the problem.

Incorporating a quality weight-training program into your training schedule, including moderate amounts of stretching and upon noticing the first hint of reinjury immediately apply more cross-frictions.

A little treatment early on in these injuries saves a great deal of agony later, Noakes says.

http://www.active.com/triathlon/Art..._muscle_tears_with_cross-friction_massage.htm
 

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