If Iraqis could vote it would be for McCain

[CelticKing]

If Iraqis could vote it would be for McCain

For five years Ali and Mohammed have lived alongside US soldiers in their Baghdad neighbourhood near Rasheed Street, a prominent commercial artery running through the heart of the Iraqi capital.

During that time American culture and politics have become familiar to them, and they say that if they could, they would vote for Republican candidate John McCain in next week's US presidential election.

"McCain would be best for Iraq because he would ensure stability," said Ali, 66, an expert on the Sumerian era.

The personal qualities and political platforms of McCain and his Democrat rival Barack Obama are of little import to Ali, however. His focus is on Iraq and its neighbours such as Iran.

"The Iranians believe that if Obama is elected he will not take action against them despite their nuclear ambitions. That worries me," said Ali, sitting on an old bench in Al-Zahawi coffee shop.

"If the Iranians get the bomb they will become the Tarzan of the region," said the former teacher and lecturer at the University of Baghdad, referring to the vine-swinging strongman of the jungle in old Hollywood movies.

Mohammed, also a professor at the university, said he too preferred McCain "because Obama supports a rapid withdrawal of US troops."

"Our army is still too weak and Turkey and Iran are threats. Iran's President (Mahmoud) Ahmadinejad has warned Iran would fill the void left when US troops depart," he said.

Rasheed Street with its 1920s-style buildings is still closed to vehicles, and groups of anti-Al-Qaeda fighters guard the stretch that runs north to south.

The street was the scene of major attacks by insurgents after the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime in 2003 to US-led invading forces. But even before that many business establishments had begun to move away from the thoroughfare.

Today, a few hundred metres (yards) from Al-Zahawi coffee shop, is the famous Al-Mutnabi books market, the only place where Baghdadis can find English books and magazines.

Booksellers display a range of computer publications, periodicals, works of fiction and school textbooks on wooden shelves.

Barack Obama's image peers out between two editions of "Vanity Fair" magazine kept next to the memoirs of former US president Bill Clinton.

But "The Audacity of Hope," one of Obama's books, has yet to find a buyer.

"I have no customer for this book. Iraqis are interested in the campaign, but they prefer to read texts translated into Arabic," said bookseller Shallan Zaidan.

Such Arabic versions, translated and published by Lebanese companies, include "My Year in Iraq" by Paul Bremer, the former US administrator of Iraq, and "Bush at War" by renowned investigative journalist Bob Woodward.

But there are no translations of books on the two candidates bidding to enter the White House.

Iraqis prefer instead to rely on the latest issues of weekly news publications such as Time and Newsweek, said government official Whamith Shadhan, who was browsing through second-hand books and magazines.

"I trust the Republicans more. They're more capable of establishing democracy in the world, especially in Arab countries," said the 33-year-old. "Obama is far too left."

Since the invasion more than five years ago, the Mutanabi market has been twice hit by bombs. The area is predominantly Sunni, and judging by some graffiti on the walls Al-Qaeda is never far away.

"The insurgents aren't bothered by political books sold on the street. They focus on religious ones," said Yasser Ali, an Obama supporter and seller of books for 22 years.

Obama "interrupted his campaign to visit his sick grandmother. That speaks volumes about the man," he said.

Back on Rasheed Street itself, Abu Ahmed waited at a men's hairdresser as his friend got a shave.

"We accept black people more readily in the Middle East. We feel closer to them. We have common sufferings," said the long-time sports coach.

"It would be nice if the Americans elected a black person. And Obama seems less inclined to engage in another war."

 

[hasoos]

Turkey is a threat? Um Turkey is a member of Nato. They might strike rebels across the border from time to time, but give me a break.

Secondly, I don't trust Iraqi's to pick my president for me. Do you? So why does their opinion matter?

 

[CelticKing]

Their opinion might not matter that much but they understand what freedom means, and know that the Republicans are for helping "oppressed" people no matter where they live, be it in the middle east, or on a different continent.

Obama will not help them one bit, and withdraw the troops immediately. (not a smart choice, but then again he's not that smart either)

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Cherry picking quotes doesn't equal the entire country wanting McCain to stay there for 100 years.

 

[maxiep]

Cherry picking quotes doesn't equal the entire country wanting McCain to stay there for 100 years.

Ask the Germans if they want us to clear out. I bet the answer would be no--they're addicted to the economic stimulus our bases provide.

 

[DaRizzle]

Thats funny, my dad (100% Iraqi)was born in Baghdad since my family was one of the first four founding families in the city of Baghdad,and I have hundreds of family members over there. My dad who moved here 30 years ago is voting for Obama. All my family Ive talked to over there is saying how they are excited at the possibility of Obama becoming president....But what do I know, I only heard it out of their own mouths.

 

[maxiep]

Thats funny, my dad (100% Iraqi)was born in Baghdad since my family was one of the first four founding families in the city of Baghdad,and I have hundreds of family members over there. My dad who moved here 30 years ago is voting for Obama. All my family Ive talked to over there is saying how they are excited at the possibility of Obama becoming president....But what do I know, I only heard it out of their own mouths.

Are they Sunni or Shia?

 

[julius]

Thats funny, my dad (100% Iraqi)was born in Baghdad since my family was one of the first four founding families in the city of Baghdad,and I have hundreds of family members over there. My dad who moved here 30 years ago is voting for Obama. All my family Ive talked to over there is saying how they are excited at the possibility of Obama becoming president....But what do I know, I only heard it out of their own mouths.

Your family is one of the four founding families in the city of Baghdad!? That is really cool.

 

[DaRizzle]

Are they Sunni or Shia?

They are Muslim

 

[DaRizzle]

Your family is one of the four founding families in the city of Baghdad!? That is really cool.

Went to Baghdad twice. The first time I went my uncle showed this HUGE family tree that went back to the time of Prophet Muhammad. There is a market in northern Iraq that has been there for almost 2000 years....Its hard for me even to believe but I saw it.

 

[julius]

Went to Baghdad twice. The first time I went my uncle showed this HUGE family tree that went back to the time of Prophet Muhammad. There is a market in northern Iraq that has been there for almost 2000 years....Its hard for me even to believe but I saw it.

That is so cool. I'm reminded of a story (it might even be that market) where there is a market where there is tile on the floor, and they have pictures (or drawings made from tiles) of the different areas in the world that are at the market.

Each area of the world that is there, has a diagram/avatar in tile. I might be thinking of one that is in Japan or China though (because you know, China, Japan and Iraq are so similar).

 

[DaRizzle]

^youve been to Iraq?

 

[maxiep]

They are Muslim

That's not an answer. I'll ask this question: do they believe that there should have been an election to replace Muhammed as Caliph or should it have gone to Ali, Muhammed's son-in-law?

Also, the vote in the Economist disagrees with your family. Iraq is one of the few places on this earth that would rather see John McCain elected than Barack Obama. I guess when real freedom is on the line, you don't "hope" or want "change".

 

[julius]

^youve been to Iraq?

No, a colleague of mine traveled a lot in the 60's-90's before he came into our current field, and showed me a slide show he made of his travels. It was fascinating.

I'm truly fascinated by the whole area, and how advanced they were. Cradle of civilization and all.

I'd love to go there someday, but I'm obviously waiting till Obama takes over the US and turns us into a communist country and my trip is paid for by the government.

 

[DaRizzle]

That's not an answer. I'll ask this question: do they believe that there should have been an election to replace Muhammed as Caliph or should it have gone to Ali, Muhammed's son-in-law?

The importance of this has been blown up by the American media. My family is Muslim

Also, the vote in the Economist disagrees with your family. Iraq is one of the few places on this earth that would rather see John McCain elected than Barack Obama. I guess when real freedom is on the line, you don't "hope" or want "change".

Interesting, my father who has been interviewed by the FBI because of his personal in depth knowledge of the situation says it is great the USA is gonna be moving out of there because they arent needed at the level they are at. This is the same man who has whip marks on his back for protesting the ba'ath party so I think he knows first hand how bad it can get. Since Ive heard nothing but pro-Obama talk from ALL (some by family members relaying the message)of my hundreds of family members over there right in the middle of Baghdad you will have to excuse me if I take their word over what a single poll of a single newspaper said.

 

[maxiep]

The importance of this has been blown up by the American media. My family is Muslim

Of course, you're correct. I guess those pesky militias based on Sunni or Shia are really just friendly disagreements. If this is your position, then it's clear you know absolutely nothing about the Middle East or your own family. So, I'll ask again: Which sect?

Interesting, my father who has been interviewed by the FBI because of his personal in depth knowledge of the situation says it is great the USA is gonna be moving out of there because they arent needed at the level they are at. This is the same man who has whip marks on his back for protesting the ba'ath party so I think he knows first hand how bad it can get. Since Ive heard nothing but pro-Obama talk from ALL (some by family members relaying the message)of my hundreds of family members over there right in the middle of Baghdad you will have to excuse me if I take their word over what a single poll of a single newspaper said.

Ah, so he was tortured by the Ba'athists? Thanks for answering my question as to which sect he and the rest of your family belongs. So, how close is you family to Moqtada al-Sadr? It's unsurprising that a Shia would want the US out of Iraq--there's Sunni blood that needs to be spilled for all the years of oppression and we're just getting in the way.

 

[DaRizzle]

Of course, you're correct. I guess those pesky militias based on Sunni or Shia are really just friendly disagreements. If this is your position, then it's clear you know absolutely nothing about the Middle East or your own family. So, I'll ask again: Which sect?

Thanks for telling me what I know...I didnt realize what some uneducated people in Northern Iraq do represents everything...thanks for clearing that up.

That must mean everybody in the Southern US is racist.

 

[maxiep]

Thanks for telling me what I know...I didnt realize what some uneducated people in Northern Iraq do represents everything...thanks for clearing that up.

That must mean everybody in the Southern US is racist.

Ah, so there were no militias in Basra? I'm sure there are Brits that would disagree with you.

So, how many times have members of your family visited Iran?

 

[DaRizzle]

Dude...Im not gonna even get into a conversation where you try to convince me I didnt see what I saw

 

[maxiep]

Dude...Im not gonna even get into a conversation where you try to convince me I didnt see what I saw

And what did you see? Your posts aren't staying on track.

 

[DaRizzle]

If you say so

 

[maxiep]

If you say so

They're not. I've asked simple questions and you've deflected each one of them. You can keep bringing up other issues, but my questions remain unanswered. Now you're stating that you saw what you saw and you're not willing to enter into a discussion about what you did see.

I knew as a Laker fan you were already confused, but your posts in this thread show your condition to be even worse than I thought.

 

[CelticKing]

The importance of this has been blown up by the American media. My family is Muslim

You're either shia or sunni, you can't be both. The importance of that hasn't been blown up by the Americans but by the terrorists from each side that keep bombing each other up for that belief.

 

[Haakzilla]

Obama will not help them one bit, and withdraw the troops immediately. (not a smart choice, but then again he's not that smart either)

...and neither are you if you believe that!!!

Barack Obama will responsibly end the war in Iraq:
Immediately upon taking office, Obama will give his Secretary of Defense and military commanders a new mission in Iraq: successfully ending the war. The removal of our troops will be responsible and phased.

Encourage political accommodation:
Obama and Biden will press Iraq's leaders to take responsibility for their future and to substantially spend their oil revenues on their own reconstruction.

Increase stability in Iraq and the region:
Obama and Biden will launch an aggressive diplomatic effort to reach a comprehensive compact on the stability of Iraq and the region. They also will address Iraq's refugee crisis.

[more here: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/]

 

[MARIS61]

OOPS! You didn't edit your cut and paste very well.

"The insurgents aren't bothered by political books sold on the street. They focus on religious ones," said Yasser Ali, an Obama supporter and seller of books for 22 years.

Obama "interrupted his campaign to visit his sick grandmother. That speaks volumes about the man," he said.

Back on Rasheed Street itself, Abu Ahmed waited at a men's hairdresser as his friend got a shave.

"We accept black people more readily in the Middle East. We feel closer to them. We have common sufferings," said the long-time sports coach.

"It would be nice if the Americans elected a black person. And Obama seems less inclined to engage in another war."

 

[MARIS61]

Ask the Germans if they want us to clear out. I bet the answer would be no--they're addicted to the economic stimulus our bases provide.

Guess it would depend on who you ask.

My best friend is a vet. He was an MP stationed in Germany and was at a huge rock concert there in the late 80's and he and his fellow servicemen were attacked by a mob of several hundred Germans screaming GI's GO HOME!

His knee was shattered, ribs broken, face kicked repeatedly so he lost sight in one eye and will soon be blind according to his Dr. He has all kinds of pain from his damaged internal organs and can't function physically without heavy pain meds.

Now, Germans in your field, investors, speculators, people dripping with money, are probably impressed with those opportunities.

A blue-collar German sees GI's as competition. For women, for jobs, for attention.

Iraqis and Germans are just like us, and by that I mean unique individuals with unique wants, needs, opinions and thoughts.

To say Iraqis this and Germans that is just racism, or ethnic bigotry, or national prejudice.

It's pretty silly if you think about, an entire nation thinking exactly alike.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

maxiep, it cracks me up that you're interrogating DaRizzle because his lived experience doesn't fit into your view about Muslims. There are plenty of Muslims who are just Muslim and don't differentiate, much like how a lot of people are "Christian" and make no effort to categorize themselves into a specific sect.

I don't want to question your knowledge on the subject, but just in case, not everything you hear on the news about Muslims is universal.

 

[maxiep]

maxiep, it cracks me up that you're interrogating DaRizzle because his lived experience doesn't fit into your view about Muslims. There are plenty of Muslims who are just Muslim and don't differentiate, much like how a lot of people are "Christian" and make no effort to categorize themselves into a specific sect.

I don't want to question your knowledge on the subject, but just in case, not everything you hear on the news about Muslims is universal.

I asked a few simple questions, and they went unanswered. That was hardly an interrogation. If you want to know what an interrogation is, you should ask DaRizzle. I bet he has a few stories of how the Sunni-dominated Ba'athist Party interrogated his family simply because they were Shia.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

That was hardly an interrogation.

...

Are they Sunni or Shia?

That's not an answer. I'll ask this question: do they believe that there should have been an election to replace Muhammed as Caliph or should it have gone to Ali, Muhammed's son-in-law?

So, I'll ask again: Which sect?

So, how close is you family to Moqtada al-Sadr? It's unsurprising that a Shia would want the US out of Iraq--there's Sunni blood that needs to be spilled for all the years of oppression and we're just getting in the way.

So, how many times have members of your family visited Iran?

Even without the wild, baseless accusation in bold, this sounds like an interrogation to me.

 

[maxiep]

...









Even without the wild, baseless accusation in bold, this sounds like an interrogation to me.

Opinions vary.