If we were to trade Kidd, how about this move

[Henacy]

Ok first off, let me say I dont want to get the Nets forum flooded with trade iideas for Jason Kidd. I personally want to see our big 3 (Kidd/Jeff/Carter) stay together. But after this offseason, I think it shows that the only way to realistically acquire a bigman is thru trade. And unfortunately for us that probably means giving up a member of the big 3.

For me, its pretty simple who goes first Jason Kidd. I have stated my reasons why in other threads so I guess I will do the same here....it real easy, our window of opportunity to win a championship under Kidd is closing by the 2nd in my opinion. The smartest thing in my opinion to do is create a bigger window, that means going younger.And still keeping the core as quality as possible. Kidd still has alot of value to a team who is very good but looking to take it up a notch to true championship contender. Anyway, enough extra bs...here is the deal....

Denver trades....

Andre Miller
Voshon Lenard
Earl Boykins
Nene

For Jason Kidd & maybe our 2006 1st round pick.


Nets' New Roster

PG: Andre Miller/Earl Boykins/Jeff McInnis
SG: Carter/Lenard
SF: Jefferson/Wright
PF: Nene/Collins
C: Krstic/Marc Jackson

rest of the team: Robinson/Planinic/Vaughn

How the team really looks: Lenard really would be used just as a designated shooter...Boykins and McInnis both can be used as scorers and behind Carter, we can go with the two point guard look often and getaway with it. The bigman spot, is very interchangable...you can put a mix of any of the two and have quality size on the floor. As well as Krstic and Nene are only going to get better.

How does this trade make us better: First let me say that in most cases, when giving up a superstar player like Jason Kidd, you want to get a legit superstar player in the deal...this trade doesnt do this for the Nets. But it does do a couple of other things for the Nets.

First thing it does, of course it improves our frontline, we now gain a quality rotation of big bodies, who's roles can easily be identified. Jackson is the frontcourt scoring punch off the bench, Jason Collins moves to a comfortable role as a bigman defender off the bench...Krstic is the frontline scoring pressence in the starting unit. And Nene is the pressence needed around the basket on both ends of the court. Throw Robinson in the gruop and you have a nice mix of proven bodies with guys that have alot of potential on the frontline in my opinion.

2nd thing this trade does....it creates a great window of opportunity to contend. We have expanded our window to win a chip from 2 years to at least 5 years. So even if we arent up their with Miami and Detriot and Indy, we still create a team that gives an oppportunity to Krstic and Nene to reach their peek potential, so we can become that legit contender.

3rd thing this trade does is create assets for the team....Inorder for a team to to be quality for the long term, you have to have parts on a team that can be traded to fill in other needs as you go along without trading any of your star players(the main thing the Nets dont have right now, hence the reason Iam even talking about trading Kidd). Tkae a look at our roster and you will now see that a guy like Collins who, we cant really trade right now, without getting a bigman in return who is at least close to as good a defender, becomes expendable with this deal...and therefore he becomes a legitimate trade asset if we are looking to make a deal. We also have McInnis and Boykins...we can trade 1 of the 2, if needed...so that is a asset. And Lenard's at the end of his deal, so 2nd half of the season if we needed to make a smaller deal, we can trade his contract alone or package with another expiring contract like Robinson. And get what we need. So by adding some trade value to the team it gives us more to work with imo.

Now Denver......

New Roster

Jason Kidd/Earl Watson
DeMarr Johnson/Greg Buckner
Carmelo/Wesley Person(Resign him)
K-Martin/Najera
Camby/Elson

Rest of Roster: Luke Snchincher(mispelled), Julius Hodge

How the team really looks: The two guard spot is clearly a weakiness on paper...but you can move Kidd over and play some two and play him in the backcourt alongside Watson...even Carmelo can move to the two depending on matchups, where he wont hurt the defense. I think the thing that stands out is how good this team could be defensively, potentially 2nd best in the West behind San Antonio Spurs....you have quality defenders at every position of the starting core and bench besides Melo and Person.

How does this make the team better: Well obviously adding a guy like Kidd, with what he still can bring combined with what they already have, you can look at Denver as a true Western Conference elite. But I think this also gives this team a Identity & on-court direction , something they lacked in my opinion, for much of last year. We seen sev different Denver teams last year, at times we seen a team that loved to play one on one in the half-court with guys throwing up long jumpers like Carmelo, even Miller etc...then we at times seen the Denver team from 03-04, the fastbreaking team...now dont get me wrong veraltitly in ways to win games is excellent but that really wasnt what what going on imo. It seem like they were serching for much of the year for a style that would get them the W's. With the addition of Kidd, they instantly get that identity, its going to be a defensive team, with all 5 guys running end to end, because they know Kidd gets it done in the opencourt. And the ball movement will take a dramatic change in my opinion. Melo will get direction and K-Mart gets that fire back into his game, which had him improving every year into a legit all-star.....oh and they probably end up getting a 1st rounder out the deal.

Anyway....I think this would be a win/win for both teams. Denver probably sees the most immediate gain cause I think a experienced Floor leader with Karl giving instructions from the bench is what those guys need to take the next step. But we gain in the long run we create a quality frontline for the future with Nenad amd Nene, we create some trade value, keep our wings who still have some much game and growth in their games to come, yes Carter still has growth in his game that needs to be add and still can be...and of course we didnt give up the Clipper pick even though they night just compete for a playoff spot themselves this year with what they added.

Anyway, please dont respond with I dont want to trade the big three cause obviously, that isnt what this thread is about, I think everyone wants to keep them together, this is simply an alternative if that cant be done. Ok, so lets discuss pros and cons from both sides of the deal.

 

[Next Level Game]

I doubt the Nuggets would trade half their roster, which includes their best backcourt players for Kidd...

They get marginally better after losing so much depth. They lose their best shooters and their frontcourt depth. Seeing a crippled Najera and Elson hold the frontcourt down while Camby and Martin sit down could be a horrific sight.

The reason they have Nene is so they could give Camby more resting time so he wouldn't get injured. He's only playing 30mpg and I'm pretty sure they want to keep it that way.

From the Nets point of view:

I haven't been impressed with Nene . He doesn't rebound particularly well or score. He would be good with Kidd around him, but right now he's just an athletic guy who plays defense.

I wouldn't want the Nets to do this trade. Jason Kidd is way top valuable as player as well as to the franchise.

 

[Bobcats]

With KMart making the max, Melo getting a max (or close to max) contract, Kidd's contract would cripple Denver's cap.

 

[jbbhoops4life]

Very good reasoning, but I dont want that to happen. I want JKidd to stay at LEAST until the end of '07. Then, I want JJ Redick (Duke) to go to New Jersey and replace JKidd. So, then JKIDD can either retire (i doubt it) or get traded. But, as long as JJ goes to Jesey, I'm happy because I live in Jersey and I love JJ (but I like Shaq a LOT more). So it would be pretty cool to see him there. but thats not what this topic is about, so you can just ignore me, sorry.

 

[Henacy]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting nextlevelgame:</div><div class="quote_post">I doubt the Nuggets would trade half their roster, which includes their best backcourt players for Kidd...

They get marginally better after losing so much depth. They lose their best shooters and their frontcourt depth. Seeing a crippled Najera and Elson hold the frontcourt down while Camby and Martin sit down could be a horrific sight.

The reason they have Nene is so they could give Camby more resting time so he wouldn't get injured. He's only playing 30mpg and I'm pretty sure they want to keep it that way.

From the Nets point of view:

I haven't been impressed with Nene . He doesn't rebound particularly well or score. He would be good with Kidd around him, but right now he's just an athletic guy who plays defense.

I wouldn't want the Nets to do this trade. Jason Kidd is way top valuable as player as well as to the franchise.</div>

Solid, respectable, points...but a couple counter points..One Denver is going to have to give up one of their point guards anyway either Miller or Boykins, cause they just signed Watson...so that means in a sense Kidd would be replacing either Miller or Boykins, cause one of the two is pretty much gone already...So its Kidd & Watson replacing Miller and Boykins, that is a huge backcourt up grade for Denver.

They will be losing depth in the frontcourt...but it may be the best for their team...Nene expressed that he doesnt like backing up...Him & Martin dont really get along. I think this move allows Denver's bigmen to Identify their roles more securely. Also I doubt their would be a large section of any game where Martin & Camby are sitting at the same time, if activated one of the two will always be on the floor. Najera getting minutes on Denver is not a bad thing for them in my opinion, Denver needs a little more hustle & grit on their rotation. Depth isnt a good thing when guys dont know or arent willing their roles, if it is lesser then what they expected to play.

As far as Nets point of view, it seems to be a vibe of everyone not wanting to trade Kidd....which I can understand...I dont want to trade Kidd, if we are a serious championship contender...But I dont want to keep him on for centimental reasons....I hear people saying keep Kidd till '07 etc...why, what do the Nets get out of that? His trade value would have greatly decreased by then...and if he then we lose him without getting anything at all. If we arent a championship contender, the smartest thing to do is trade him while, he still have value as a player, not just as a contract a team can dump the next offseason, cause you get more for him that way.

Back to Nextlevelgame, yes Kidd, is valuable to the franchise...but in my opinion, it all centers around chanpionship hopes...and thats it. Jason Kidd playing in the contentail Airlines arena, on a decent but not championship contender, isnt that big as far as fan fare & ticket sells go, just look at last season. He might be able to put fans in the stands at a Brooklyn arena, but by the time we get there, he problably wont be on the team anymore. And if he is will fans even still come out to see him at over 35 years old?

So keeping Kidd for marquee reasons to sell tickets is useless, if we aint winning...meaning championship level contenders, the same people that come out to see Kidd, will still be willing to come out to see Vincent. Kidd's value to the ticket/media/Business part of the Nets dropped when we got Carter, in my opinion.

 

[kobimel]

I agree with Henacy. This trade will solidify our frontcourt for the future, and as for the present, a frontcourt of Nene and Nenad is enough to contend with MOST teams in the east(except Miami, with Shaq, Detroit, with the Wallace's, and Indiana, with Jermaine O'Neal). A lineup with Miller, Jefferson, Carter, Nene, and Krstic will THE most athletic team in the league, no question asked.

Voshon Lenard will give us a reliable, if not injury prone, shooter, and provide us with the designated shooter we've been longing for. Boykins has proven that even though his height is a huge downgrade, he's still a solid 8th or 9th man off the bench. And Andre Miller, even though he can be selfish at times, is a good playmaker when he focuses on team play. He's also a better scorer than Kidd, and even though he doesn't really improve the players around him like Jason, he's still a good point guard.

I, like any other Nets fan, would hate to see Kidd go. But I just can't see him staying at the team later than next season's trade deadline(that would be in 2007). Our window of oppurtunity for a championship is nearly gone, and the only thing keepin' it open is that something unexpected will happen and the Nets could somehow get a solid PF without letting any of the Big 3 or Krstic leave. And by next season, Kidd will probably notice that, and will want to go to a contender. Let's face it, J-Kidd isn't going to be an All-Star. He isn't a perky young player anymore, and he's not getting any younger. I think he'll do whatever it takes to get a championship, even if that means going to a contender like San Antonio, Detroit, or Miami and being a 3rd or 4th option (ala Gary Payton/Karl Malone with the Lakers). So we should try to trade him sooner rather than later, before his value diminishes even further.

Another plus about trading Kidd would be the incredible salary cap relief we could get. Instead of one nearly untradable player(because of the salary space involved), we can get a couple of expiring contracts, or tradable pieces to solidify the future. We can join the free-agent hunt in 2007 and 2008, when tons of big name players' contracts, including Shawn Marion, Lebron James, and Dwayne Wade, will expire. Or we could send some of the players we get in return, like Boykins, for future picks.

Ultimately, the pluses about trading Kidd add up, and the minuses are minimal compared to them. Again, I would hate to see Kidd go, but it would be for the good of the team.

 

[Next Level Game]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Solid, respectable, points...but a couple counter points..One Denver is going to have to give up one of their point guards anyway either Miller or Boykins, cause they just signed Watson...so that means in a sense Kidd would be replacing either Miller or Boykins, cause one of the two is pretty much gone already...So its Kidd & Watson replacing Miller and Boykins, that is a huge backcourt up grade for Denver.</div>

This is true, and if it were Miller and Boykins for Kidd, I'm sure they'd do it.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">They will be losing depth in the frontcourt...but it may be the best for their team...Nene expressed that he doesnt like backing up...Him & Martin dont really get along. I think this move allows Denver's bigmen to Identify their roles more securely.</div>

Understandable, but Nene's dissent wasn't a major problem last season. He stilled played hard when he got onto the court and didn't sulk. Because of that, I'm sure the Nuggets don't want to lose him.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Also I doubt their would be a large section of any game where Martin & Camby are sitting at the same time,</div>

Yes, but Martin and Camby have injury-ridden pasts and if one of them were to go out for a signigicant time that means Elson or Najera is getting major minutes and when the one who is not injured is sitting, that means the frontcourt might be Elson and Najera for a good 10 minutes...Even our frontcourt could rip them up.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Najera getting minutes on Denver is not a bad thing for them in my opinion, Denver needs a little more hustle & grit on their rotation.</div>

Najera's knees just don't hold up anymore. I was surprised at how lethargic and slothlike he became last season.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As far as Nets point of view, it seems to be a vibe of everyone not wanting to trade Kidd....which I can understand...I dont want to trade Kidd, if we are a serious championship contender...But I dont want to keep him on for centimental reasons....</div>

I assume that's a typo and you meant sentimental...and I don't think by keeping him that's true.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">hear people saying keep Kidd till '07 etc...why, what do the Nets get out of that? His trade value would have greatly decreased by then...and if he then we lose him without getting anything at all. If we arent a championship contender, the smartest thing to do is trade him while, he still have value as a player, not just as a contract a team can dump the next offseason, cause you get more for him that way.</div>

If Stockton and Mark Jackson could play and contribute for so long I don't see why JKidd can't. Sure they were half-court players but I don't think Jason is that bad at the half court. He's still an elite player, till proven not. He hasn't slowed down as much everyone makes him out to be. He still led the leagues in triple doubles and made it to the all defensive second team despite playing les than 70 games. He's good and I don't think there is a reason to trade him right now.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Back to Nextlevelgame, yes Kidd, is valuable to the franchise...but in my opinion, it all centers around chanpionship hopes...and thats it.</div>

I understand, but loyalty is very important as well. We don't want to send out the message that if you can't win us a championship then you're gone. No one in the future will want to sign with us then. If we trade Kidd just cause he didn't bring us a championship, then other players will look our organization in contempt. They'll feel we have no loyalty to our players and see them as assets rather than people. Kidd may never bring us a championship, but if we treat him with respect and dignity that superstar deserves, I think a lot players in the future, particularly ones that will eventually give us championships will come.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Jason Kidd playing in the contentail Airlines arena, on a decent but not championship contender, isnt that big as far as fan fare & ticket sells go, just look at last season. He might be able to put fans in the stands at a Brooklyn arena, but by the time we get there, he problably wont be on the team anymore. And if he is will fans even still come out to see him at over 35 years old?</div>

Who knows? Cassell was 34 before he became an all-star. Payton still looked better than half the point gaurds in the league last year. Who knows what Jason will be when he gets older. He still keeps himself in terrific shape. His basketball IQ is unmatched in the league, I think he'll be fine heading into this mid-30s. Will he garner the 17 million? Probalby not, but he's a respected player and an icon for the Nets. Just have management show some loyalty to its players and one of the most respected players in the game..

Just look how the Bulls treated Jordan towards the end of his career. They pretty much bullied him out of the franchise and Jerry Krause became the most hated GM in the league. Franchise players wouldn't sign with the Bulls and they limped on till last season. I remember Kevin Garnett saying he would never sign with the Bulls because of the way they treated MJ. I don't want that to happen with the Nets.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
So keeping Kidd for marquee reasons to sell tickets is useless, if we aint winning...meaning championship level contenders, the same people that come out to see Kidd, will still be willing to come out to see Vincent. Kidd's value to the ticket/media/Business part of the Nets dropped when we got Carter, in my opinion.</div>

Maybe, but Kidd is still the reason we win most our games, in my opinion. Kidd made Carter better. Kidd was the leader and led Carter. I think the problem with Carter in the past was he was asked to be a leader of a team and he never really wanted to be. He doesn't have that quality..now that he's asked to be the second guy to Kidd, a natural leader, he played the best season of his career since 2000. Carter needs Kidd, more than Kidd needs Carter.

Sure the image right now is Carter cause he makes the highlights and whatever. But if he's losing again just like Toronto, cause he can't lead a team, it won't matter how many dunks he has in a game, or whatever, he'll be our image of losing.


Bottom line is a team of

Andre Miller/Earl
Vince Carter/McInnis/Lenard
Richard Jefferson/Wright
Nene/JC/Cliff Robinson
Krstic/Marc Jackson

Won't win us a title. None of them, except RJ (and that's because he had Kidd...well you could make a case for Cliff, but he's not that intergal) has really won consistently in The Pistons, Heat, Spurs, Mavs, Rockets, Pacers will all be better in the next 5 years. Might as well keep our franchise player and keep building.

 

[Voodoo Child]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Let's face it, J-Kidd isn't going to be an All-Star. He isn't a perky young player anymore, and he's not getting any younger.</div>

Come again? Didn't you see Kidd play in the last few months of the season? He nearly averaged a triple double along with 2.5 spg while leading the new lineup to an amazing run into the playoffs over Cleveland. I don't care what you or anyone else says; Kidd still has it, and he's shown it. I can't see anyone knocking him off as the #1 Point Guard in the NBA soon, and especially not as an All-Star.

 

[Henacy]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">This is true, and if it were Miller and Boykins for Kidd, I'm sure they'd do it


Understandable, but Nene's dissent wasn't a major problem last season. He stilled played hard when he got onto the court and didn't sulk. Because of that, I'm sure the Nuggets don't want to lose him.


Yes, but Martin and Camby have injury-ridden pasts and if one of them were to go out for a signigicant time that means Elson or Najera is getting major minutes and when the one who is not injured is sitting, that means the frontcourt might be Elson and Najera for a good 10 minutes...Even our frontcourt could rip them up.



Najera's knees just don't hold up anymore. I was surprised at how lethargic and slothlike he became last season.</div>

Your right, I didnt think about Martin & Camby healthy wise....

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If Stockton and Mark Jackson could play and contribute for so long I don't see why JKidd can't. Sure they were half-court players but I don't think Jason is that bad at the half court. He's still an elite player, till proven not. He hasn't slowed down as much everyone makes him out to be. He still led the leagues in triple doubles and made it to the all defensive second team despite playing les than 70 games. He's good and I don't think there is a reason to trade him right now.</div>

I definately think Kidd had a respectable year last season. And that is the exact reason why trading him now is the best thing for the franchise. Value still high,so that equals quality in return, lets say he hits a wall this year, then his value drops greatly...and with his contract it would be hard to move him at that point..Trading Kidd now would be proactive. Its a risk of course and it will have an impact on the franchise. But I willing to take the risk because you bring up Jackson & Stockton...but the thing that became a key to their games and allowed them to last a long time was the jumpshot. Stockton...used his ablity to shoot coming off picks to setup everything he did offensively until he retired, so it was able to cover up his lack of quickiness, something his game was never based on...and Mark Jackson ablity to develope into shooting the three added years to his career as well. Toward the end Mark Jackson wasnt much more then a glorified shooter. Kidd obiviously doesnt have that aspect in his game...so once his quickiness Kidd will still be quality because he has a great basketball IQ, but his drop off from where he was in the glory days to where he will be, will be much greater then those guys in my opinion.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I understand, but loyalty is very important as well. We don't want to send out the message that if you can't win us a championship then you're gone. No one in the future will want to sign with us then. If we trade Kidd just cause he didn't bring us a championship, then other players will look our organization in contempt. They'll feel we have no loyalty to our players and see them as assets rather than people. Kidd may never bring us a championship, but if we treat him with respect and dignity that superstar deserves, I think a lot players in the future, particularly ones that will eventually give us championships will come.</div>

I dont think anybody would ever be able to say we werent loyal to Kidd, look at all the players we have acquired/and tried to acquire to keep him happy. We got rid of Byron Scott partly cause him & Kidd werent on the same page



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Who knows? Cassell was 34 before he became an all-star. Payton still looked better than half the point gaurds in the league last year. Who knows what Jason will be when he gets older. He still keeps himself in terrific shape. His basketball IQ is unmatched in the league, I think he'll be fine heading into this mid-30s. Will he garner the 17 million? Probalby not, but he's a respected player and an icon for the Nets. Just have management show some loyalty to its players and one of the most respected players in the game..</div>

Cassell, shooter, never played off quickiness, like Stockton, he uses the jumpshot to setup everything he does...Payton was always a blend of underatted quickiness & his ablity to be pshyical against other pgs...alot of the quickiness is gone. But he is still pshyical and that allows him some sucess, posting up etc.

I dont understand how trading him is considered disloyalty, after all we have done to keep him happy...Is it disloyalty, when he puts out an ora that he wants to be traded almost every summer? not to him, its business...well the decision to go in a different direction wouldnt be disloyal either, its business. Plus, Iam not talking about trading him to the Hawks or Hornets, he would end up on a quality team...playing with Martin. And having a shot at that chip he really wants before hanging it up, we actually do him a favor cause he doesnt have to go through Shaq until the finals.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Just look how the Bulls treated Jordan towards the end of his career. They pretty much bullied him out of the franchise and Jerry Krause became the most hated GM in the league. Franchise players wouldn't sign with the Bulls and they limped on till last season. I remember Kevin Garnett saying he would never sign with the Bulls because of the way they treated MJ. I don't want that to happen with the Nets.</div>

They forced the arguebly most beloved athlete in American history into a 2nd early retirement..we would be trading Kidd to a team that is arguebly as good or better then the one he is alrady on...alot different in my opinion.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Maybe, but Kidd is still the reason we win most our games, in my opinion. Kidd made Carter better. Kidd was the leader and led Carter. I think the problem with Carter in the past was he was asked to be a leader of a team and he never really wanted to be. He doesn't have that quality..now that he's asked to be the second guy to Kidd, a natural leader, he played the best season of his career since 2000. Carter needs Kidd, more than Kidd needs Carter</div>


Ahh...I argued that exact same point you just stated in the Carter is overratted talks we all had in the Nets forummawhile back..so I definately wont argue with you that Kidd was the focal point of winning...But my point is that just because you win with a guy doesnt mean you cant win without him if you replace him with quality. Andre Miller/Boykins/Mcinnis is not Jason Kidd but it still is quality.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sure the image right now is Carter cause he makes the highlights and whatever. But if he's losing again just like Toronto, cause he can't lead a team, it won't matter how many dunks he has in a game, or whatever, he'll be our image of losing.</div>

How would we be losing? the team after the trade is still quality and easly makes the playoffs next year if everyone stays healthy...probably even wins the Atlantic still.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Bottom line is a team of

Andre Miller/Earl
Vince Carter/McInnis/Lenard
Richard Jefferson/Wright
Nene/JC/Cliff Robinson
Krstic/Marc Jackson

Won't win us a title. None of them, except RJ (and that's because he had Kidd...well you could make a case for Cliff, but he's not that intergal) has really won consistently in The Pistons, Heat, Spurs, Mavs, Rockets, Pacers will all be better in the next 5 years. Might as well keep our franchise player and keep building.</div>

Will that team win a champion ship next year? heck no...but that team has a larger window of opporunity and a brighter long term out look toward winning a championship then we currently have...

You pretty much made my point with that last statement. Keeping Kidd and trying to build has been exactly what we have been doing for the last couple of offseason..And it has been our problem, led to some bad decisions imo. Now everyone is talking about the Nets trading Jefferson, which I think would be the worst decision of all. The guy is a jumpshot away from being a bonafide superstar. Why? just so we dont trade Kidd, who is getting nothing but older.

The Pistons wont be that great in a couple of years, unless Darko developes and they dont seem to be willing to give him the minutes to do so. Rasheed is on the down slide already. Once their frontline falls apart, they come right back to the pack, even with that backcourt they got. Wade is good but a long way from being a guy that I consider teams championship dreams starting & ending with going through him...Shaq is the guy that no team on this planet can matchup against. Without his pressence, they can keep everyone on their roster and they are still very beatable. Pacers will be quality for years to come but with a frontline of Jeff, Krstic, Nene (might not be better now) but has the potential to be better then what they are bring to the table imo.

Spurs, Rockets, Mavs..any West team period. I dont worry about them to much cause come playoff time we only have to go thru one of them, if we were lucky enough to get to the finals down the line.

Iam not saying the roster I created would be the final roster to lead us to the promise land...Iam saying it opens up the opporunity...parts probably will have to be changed as with any team...but at least after that deal we now have the parts to make change. Tradable assets will have been added etc.

 

[Next Level Game]

I agree, we're not going anywhere and down the line we might have to trade one of our big three. I wouldn't want it to be Jefferson either cause he still has a large part of his career ahead of him and hasn't peaked...but I don't like the possiblity of trading Kidd either.

I rather trade Carter, especially a Carter who came off a spectacular season. His value must be amazingly high right now and could bring us players that could contend for next year. I mean, if we could get Pau and Shane Battier or Mike Miller for him, I say we're in terrific shape for the championship... or Elton Brand and Mobley, we'll still be in contention... I don't want to give up on Kidd just cause we got Carter. Kidd's been with us all the time playing his best, while Carter has a history of giving up and losing.

 

[kobimel]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">Come again? Didn't you see Kidd play in the last few months of the season? He nearly averaged a triple double along with 2.5 spg while leading the new lineup to an amazing run into the playoffs over Cleveland. I don't care what you or anyone else says; Kidd still has it, and he's shown it. I can't see anyone knocking him off as the #1 Point Guard in the NBA soon, and especially not as an All-Star.</div>


Sorry, I don't think I made myself clear enough. I meant that he won't be an all-star in 2007, when I said we should trade him.

 

[Henacy]

If Iam the Clippers, I wouldnt give up Elton Brand for Carter, unless you give back the Clipper pick...its no disrespect to Vince but, I would never trade a all-star level bigman for a all-star level guard...bigs are just to hard to come by....that is another reason I dont want to trade Jefferson....because if NBA' gms are as smart as they claim they are...then there is very little chance that we get a upper level bigman for him...we probably end up with a big with questionable character like Boozer or a solid but not spectaclar guy like Gooden, packaged with some other salaries. I rather keep Jefferson then get a C level big man for him.