Iguodala for Batum?

[Rastapopoulos]

Apparently a "three way" has been proposed that sends Derrick Williams to Philly, Batum to Minny and Iguodala to Porty. I mean Portland. Would you do it?

 

[Natebishop3]

I would do it if we can get Hibbert. I think Hibbert changes things to a "win now" mode, but if Indy matches then I think we should play our young guys and I would much rather have Williams in that deal.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Yes

{Poasted via palm pilot}

 

[3RA1N1AC]

id rather have d williams and trade him for someone better than iggy, but sure

 

[ironcrotch]

I'd like to have Williams and Iggy.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I'd rather let Batum walk than have Iggy, but I'd rather S&T Batum for a younger player like Williams if I had the choice

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Iggy has been on the steady decline since 2008 and his teams record have been well below average for the most part.

The other reason: Fuck Kahn! Don't budge against this guy, he's clearly trolling in this situation.

 

[Minstrel]

I like Batum, but I really really like Iguodala. He can score (though volume scoring isn't his thing), he's a great passer for a non-point guard and he's an absolutely elite wing defender. I'd definitely do this deal if possible. Personally, I'd much rather have Iguodala than Williams.

 

[Natebishop3]

I like Batum, but I really really like Iguodala. He can score (though volume scoring isn't his thing), he's a great passer for a non-point guard and he's an absolutely elite wing defender. I'd definitely do this deal if possible.

Do you think it's worth it though if we can't get Hibbert? This team is pretty weak right now as it currently stands.

 

[Minstrel]

Do you think it's worth it though if we can't get Hibbert? This team is pretty weak right now as it currently stands.

Yes, I think that you should aim to keep getting better where you can. I don't agree with the "either be really good or really bad, nothing in between." I think most title contenders are built step by step, rather than in a grand orgy of lottery picks and free agent stars. Hibbert plus Iguodala would give the Blazers a really nice core, but I think the Iguodala move is a good one independent of signing Hibbert. Especially if the Blazers are planning to match on Batum...Iguodala is the player I hoped that Batum would turn into, essentially.

There's limits, of course...taking on a very overpaid player or an aging player near the end isn't productive, but I don't consider Iguodala either.

 

[Masbee]

I would do it if we can get Hibbert. I think Hibbert changes things to a "win now" mode, but if Indy matches then I think we should play our young guys and I would much rather have Williams in that deal.

Can't see to type, crazy avatar causing seizure.....

Yes, I agree 100% with you on this:

If we are pretty sure we will get Hibbert;

AND, we are pretty sure that Batum really does prefer Minny right now;

then,

I would rather not risk a sulking player who might not give 100% if things don't go perfectly and he will always wonder about the grass in Minny - just cut him loose - assuming we can get Iggy to replace him.

Gives the Blazers a chance to audition a player who has had more success in his career than Batum and a player, who I think, is one of only about 4 or 5 guys in the NBA who can be asked to guard Durant one-on-one and come out looking good.

If everything gelled and if the Blazers could get some decent veteran guard help at the low end of the salary scale, that is a solid playoff team.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I would do it if we can get Hibbert. I think Hibbert changes things to a "win now" mode, but if Indy matches then I think we should play our young guys and I would much rather have Williams in that deal.

This is what it boils down to for me as well. With Hibbert, Iggy makes sense as a playmaker/defender at the 2 and the team might actually be able to eek their way into the top 4 of the conference. No Hibbert and Iggy and what we're left with is probably roughly equal to no Hibbert and Batum, which means overpaying for a likely 8th seed and no lottery pick (ie. probably no pick at all next year).

 

[KingSpeed]

Iggy has been on the steady decline since 2008 and his teams record have been well below average for the most part.
.

They had a pretty good year this year. One win away from the ECF.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I wouldn't mind it, but I would rather have Williams. i would also prefer his contract. But mostly I like his age and his skill.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Iggy has been on the steady decline since 2008 and his teams record have been well below average for the most part.

The other reason: Fuck Kahn! Don't budge against this guy, he's clearly trolling in this situation.

That's a horrible reason not to do a deal. It should only revolve around how it impacts your competitiveness (now or in the future) nothing else. And frankly for the kind of money they want to throw at Nicolas I almost think they should let Kahn "win." -- I'm all for pyrrhic victories for my enemies.

 

[Draco]

I wouldn't be interested in Iggy unless we are in win now mode. With Hibbert yes I'd consider doing the deal if we got a draft pick or something. Otherwise no I'd rather spend cap space on amnesty waivers or young players. Iggy has been declining the last few years and doesn't fit if we are aiming to contend years down the road.

 

[Natebishop3]

I wouldn't be interested in Iggy unless we are in win now mode. With Hibbert yes I'd consider doing the deal if we got a draft pick or something. Otherwise no I'd rather spend cap space on amnesty waivers or young players. Iggy has been declining the last few years and doesn't fit if we are aiming to contend years down the road.

Exactly.

Hibbert = win now.

No Hibbert = build for future.

 

[Denny Crane]

Iggy's only 28. His FGA/game have declined from 15.6 to 10.2, so his scoring averages have declined as well - from 19.9 to 12.4. Get him some shots and he'll score plenty. He'll also give you 6.1 RPG and 5.5 APG to go along with great defense.

I don't see how you'd pass on him for just Batum.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Exactly.

Hibbert = win now.

No Hibbert = build for future.

Agreed. But then the question is, if you get Iggy & Hibbert, do you accept Lillard as your starting PG in win-now mode? If not, what do you do about the PG spot?

 

[Draco]

There's limits, of course...taking on a very overpaid player or an aging player near the end isn't productive, but I don't consider Iguodala either.

I love Iggy today, but I think his effectiveness is going to decline very quickly in two years. I don't think he'll still be a quality starter. He'll start to be similar to Marion after Phoenix, still effective but not a top 3 player on a team. Yes in a vacuum I'd rather have Iggy on a 2 year deal than Batum on this crazy 4/45 deal. But I'd rather just keep Derrick Williams or aim for another teams young player if we are considering a sign and trade for Batum.

Now if we get Hibbert, which I view as a long shot, I think it changes the outlook quite a bit. You put Iggy on that team and we might be a top 4 seed. Then we are in a spot that you talk about, building a contender step by step. We’d still be short of a title but you could be one lucky move away from contention. However without Hibbert we are multiple moves away from contention and I think it’d be unrealistic for such moves to take place before Iguodala declines significantly.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Agreed. But then the question is, if you get Iggy & Hibbert, do you accept Lillard as your starting PG in win-now mode? If not, what do you do about the PG spot?

Well, you may not be wining right now, but I think you give him as much time as possible and let Iggy handle some of the playmaking duties, letting Lillard play off the ball some and use his fairly elite shooting ability for stretches of games (which could help ease his transition).

 

[RR7]

Agreed. But then the question is, if you get Iggy & Hibbert, do you accept Lillard as your starting PG in win-now mode? If not, what do you do about the PG spot?

Absolutely. I think the best part of Iggy in that scenario is it eases some of the pressure off of Lillard, and you don't need him to average 18 and 7 his first year to be an effective piece.

 

[Draco]

Iggy's only 28. His FGA/game have declined from 15.6 to 10.2, so his scoring averages have declined as well - from 19.9 to 12.4. Get him some shots and he'll score plenty. He'll also give you 6.1 RPG and 5.5 APG to go along with great defense.

I don't see how you'd pass on him for just Batum.

Many basketball players hit their peak at 26. Guys like Nash and Dirk are an exception when they still play at nearly their peak effectiveness well into their 30's. I think Aldridge could age very well, but I think Iguodala is more similar to Gerald Wallace and Shawn Marion in that he'll take significant steps back before the age of 30. He's basically already done this the last few seasons statisitically.

I also don't believe its as simple as increasing his FGA and watching his scoring increase at the same rate. It's much easier to be efficient when you have a low usage rate and score on quality opportunities. As your usage rate increases generally you have to take more difficult shots and the percentage drops. You see extremes where guys like Joel Pryzbilla lead the league in FG% for a portion of the season but only score 6 ppg. Joel is still a horrific offensive player.

 

[Sinobas]

Only concern with this, is that I'd be afraid it would be like how we got Gerald Wallace right before he started going downhill. But Batum is a good role player, while Iggy has been a legit all-star in this league.

Iggy only has 2 more years left, so it's not like we'd be acquiring a boat anchor. I'd rather have him than overpaying Batum.

Lillard/
Matthews/Williams
Iggy/Claver/Babbit/Barton
LA/Freeland
Hibbert/Leonard

That team just might get out of the 1st round. But the talent level only seems to be on par with the team that got bounced out of the 1st round against Dallas.

 

[Minstrel]

but I think Iguodala is more similar to Gerald Wallace and Shawn Marion in that he'll take significant steps back before the age of 30. He's basically already done this the last few seasons statisitically.

He hasn't taken any steps back statistically, really. His PER has held even, as have the peripherals...his scoring efficiency has held even, his rebound rate has ticked up, the last few seasons have been his best for assist rate, his turnover rate has held even. His defense is still at an elite level. Last season was his best for win shares per 48 minutes.

Denny's point about shot attempts is valid, because it's not a matter of a guy who's only taken a few shot attempts and projecting him upwards. That's not so valid. What Denny was saying is that Iguodala's shot attempts have dropped the last few years, so his points-per-game dip is deceptive. That's a perfectly valid point.

 

[Haakzilla]

...this biggest thing that concerns me about Iggy is that fact that he is getting worse at shooting FREE-throws! Who the hell gets worse at FREE-throws as their career wears on?

 

[Draco]

He hasn't taken any steps back statistically, really.

2008 19.9PPG
2009 18.8PPG
2010 17.1PPG
2011 14.1PPG
2012 12.4PPG

I know scoring isn't everything, but I still think its an important statistical category.

I'm still a fan of his game, so I don't want to make it seem as though I'm totally against bringing him here. I'm just on the fence about trying to bring him in if we arn't close to contention. If we were close to contending I'd be all over it.

 

[Rhal]

If we get Hibbert I think it would be a great move to grab Iggy. If we don't get Hibbert I would much rather have Derrick Williams.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

2008 19.9PPG
2009 18.8PPG
2010 17.1PPG
2011 14.1PPG
2012 12.4PPG

I know scoring isn't everything, but I still think its an important statistical category.

I'm still a fan of his game, so I don't want to make it seem as though I'm totally against bringing him here. I'm just on the fence about trying to bring him in if we arn't close to contention. If we were close to contending I'd be all over it.

And to add to that, each year when his scoring average went down, so did his PER.

Iggy is a big 'ol MEH.

 

[Haakzilla]

2008 19.9PPG
2009 18.8PPG
2010 17.1PPG
2011 14.1PPG
2012 12.4PPG

I know scoring isn't everything, but I still think its an important statistical category.

Check out the declining FT%:
2007 82.0%
2008 72.1%
2009 72.4%
2010 73.3%
2011 69.3%
2012 61.7%!!!