Interesting Article on Damian Lillard, plus my own thoughts on Lillard

[Wizard Mentor]

The Special Resonance of Damian Lillard's Discipline
https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/261898/The-Special-Resonance-Of-Damian-Lillards-Discipline

Excerpt:

Watching Dame Lillard work can be like falling asleep on a train, hallucinogenic art cinema where you wonder if the guy switching reels in the projection booth is playing a joke. The Blazers lost to the Pelicans on Tuesday night, I’m sure of it. They were down 17 with 5:45 left in the game. There have been contests this season, everyone as beaten down as they are by their demi-quarantined lives and the grind of an especially brutal schedule, that effectively ended with one team down 17 in the second quarter, millennials and zoomers embracing the Clerks lifestyle and calling it a night. Demanding that anybody, even millionaire athletes who are more or less television characters, commit themselves to your entertainment feels like an unreasonable ask these days. Whatever, pack it in, the players have earned their game check just by showing up.

My own (related) thoughts about Lillard and the Blazers:
As some of you have known, I have long professed that the Blazers will not, can not, win a championship - EVER. The only small market teams (since before 1980) to win a championship had Lebron James or Tim Duncan - guys who are in the top 5 all time at their positions. And I still believe that no small market team will ever win a chip without a top 5er. However, it is no longer obvious to me that Lillard will not become a top 5er. In this year's all star game, Lillard and Curry showed the world something we've never seen before. They both hit multiple half court shots at a greater that 50% clip. Lillard just showed Chicago and New Orleans outrageous things. Personally, I turned off both games at the end, assuming it was another Blazer loss. Lillard was amazing. Putting aside concerns about the coach, personnel, and injuries, I have a new found optimism - Maaaaaybe, the Blazers aren't ruled out of winning a championship after all.

That being said, until the Blazers start playing good defense, I'll still be in the skeptic's camp. However, the Blazers truly have A New Hope.

Can he become, or is currently, a top5 PG all time?
What do you think of the article, or my thoughts on Lillard?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Traditional PG, probably not. This new era of hybrid SG/PG, easily.

What Iverson started Curry and Lillard have taken to ridiculous levels.

 

[Natebishop3]

As some of you have known, I have long professed that the Blazers will not, can not, win a championship - EVER.

The NBA will never allow us to win another championship.

If we made it to the Finals, nobody would watch.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

The NBA will never allow us to win another championship.

If we made it to the Finals, nobody would watch.

I call BS on that. For the Blazers to make the finals would require a lot of Dame Time. Blazers in the finals would be must watch TV for that reason alone.

 

[Natebishop3]

Traditional PG, probably not. This new era of hybrid SG/PG, easily.

What Iverson started Curry and Lillard have taken to ridiculous levels.

I feel like Dame is more of a traditional point guard than Iverson ever was. Iverson playing shooting guard next to taller point guards like Eric Snow. Curry is also more of a hybrid point guard/shooting guard player. The amount he runs off screens is completely outside of the traditional point guard mold. But Dame fits that mold. He has the ball in his hands all the time. He sets up the offense. He puts up decent assist numbers (as proven by that recent stat about him hitting points/assists).

 

[Natebishop3]

I call BS on that. For the Blazers to make the finals would require a lot of Dame Time. Blazers in the finals would be must watch TV for that reason alone.

Not for the rest of the league. Remember how bad the viewership was for the Spurs/Nets? Why would it be different for us?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I feel like Dame is more of a traditional point guard than Iverson ever was. Iverson playing shooting guard next to taller point guards like Eric Snow. Curry is also more of a hybrid point guard/shooting guard player. The amount he runs off screens is completely outside of the traditional point guard mold. But Dame fits that mold. He has the ball in his hands all the time. He sets up the offense. He puts up decent assist numbers (as proven by that recent stat about him hitting points/assists).

Replace CJ with a taller PG and Dame's points and assists wouldn't change much.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Not for the rest of the league. Remember how bad the viewership was for the Spurs/Nets? Why would it be different for us?

You do not respect the power of Dame Time.

Embrace the Dame Time!

Love the Dame Time!

 

[Natebishop3]

Replace CJ with a taller PG and Dame's points and assists wouldn't change much.

It's interesting, Iverson averaged 31 ppg but only 4.5 - 5 assists per game during that time. He was also listed as a shooting guard.

Also, Iverson played a TON of minutes. It's amazing he played as long as he did. He was averaging 41 mpg FOR HIS CAREER. Dame is insanely more efficient than Iverson. His highest PER in his career was 26 and that was only 1 time.

 

[HolyBackboard]

The Blazers can win a chip with Dame as the No. 1 option, the team just needs to find him a legit No. 2 and the rest will fall in place. He's that good. Top 5 in the NBA right now, and I don't think there's a real debate about it either.

 

[Natebishop3]

The Blazers can win a chip with Dame as the No. 1 option, the team just needs to find him a legit No. 2 and the rest will fall in place. He's that good. Top 5 in the NBA right now, and I don't think there's a real debate about it either.

Will the refs allow him to win one?

 

[wizenheimer]

Replace CJ with a taller PG and Dame's points and assists wouldn't change much.

Paul George is 6'7. I'm in favor of Portland replacing CJ with a 6'10 Paul George

j/k

 

[kjironman1]

Paul George is 6'7. I'm in favor of Portland replacing CJ with a 6'10 Paul George

j/k

Just put CJ on this!

 

[bobf]

The Special Resonance of Damian Lillard's Discipline
https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/261898/The-Special-Resonance-Of-Damian-Lillards-Discipline

Excerpt:


My own (related) thoughts about Lillard and the Blazers:
As some of you have known, I have long professed that the Blazers will not, can not, win a championship - EVER. The only small market teams (since before 1980) to win a championship had Lebron James or Tim Duncan - guys who are in the top 5 all time at their positions. And I still believe that no small market team will ever win a chip without a top 5er. However, it is no longer obvious to me that Lillard will not become a top 5er. In this year's all star game, Lillard and Curry showed the world something we've never seen before. They both hit multiple half court shots at a greater that 50% clip. Lillard just showed Chicago and New Orleans outrageous things. Personally, I turned off both games at the end, assuming it was another Blazer loss. Lillard was amazing. Putting aside concerns about the coach, personnel, and injuries, I have a new found optimism - Maaaaaybe, the Blazers aren't ruled out of winning a championship after all.

That being said, until the Blazers start playing good defense, I'll still be in the skeptic's camp. However, the Blazers truly have A New Hope.

Can he become, or is currently, a top5 PG all time?
What do you think of the article, or my thoughts on Lillard?

Duncan had Parker and Manu. Curry had Green, Iggy, Klay. It takes a lot more than just being a top-fiver unless you are Lebron and he still had Kyrie and then AD. You either need other stars or immense depth of non-star but well above average players. Like Dallas had.

We are not even close. Nurk would have to return to form and then some. CJ would need to play at his “all star” level. Little would need to blossom big time. Our defense would need drastic improvement.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Duncan had Parker and Manu. Curry had Green, Iggy, Klay. It takes a lot more than just being a top-fiver unless you are Lebron and he still had Kyrie and then AD. You either need other stars or immense depth of non-star but well above average players. Like Dallas had.

We are not even close. Nurk would have to return to form and then some. CJ would need to play at his “all star” level. Little would need to blossom big time. Our defense would need drastic improvement.

No argument. My point is that having a top5er is a prerequisite - it's necessary, but not sufficient.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Also, Iverson played a TON of minutes. It's amazing he played as long as he did. He was averaging 41 mpg FOR HIS CAREER.

It's because of all the practice. I hear he loved to practice.

 

[Natebishop3]

It's because of all the practice. I hear he loved to practice.

The best time to take a nap.

 

[wizenheimer]

Just put CJ on this!

maybe that's the real reason he had a broken foot

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Can he become, or is currently, a top5 PG all time?

PG's ahead of Dame on the all-time rank:

• Magic
• Isaiah
• Stockton
• Kidd
• Paul
• Nash
• Curry

IMO, Dame might be able to pass Curry and Nash. I don't see him cracking the top 5.

 

[wizenheimer]

Duncan had Parker and Manu. Curry had Green, Iggy, Klay. It takes a lot more than just being a top-fiver unless you are Lebron and he still had Kyrie and then AD. You either need other stars or immense depth of non-star but well above average players. Like Dallas had.

We are not even close. Nurk would have to return to form and then some. CJ would need to play at his “all star” level. Little would need to blossom big time. Our defense would need drastic improvement.

for a championship, a teams needs to consistently have a top-10 defense. The Dame/CJ teams have only been there once, on a fluke, and that was when the pair were being paid 30 million less than they will be over the next 3 seasons

Olshey doesn't prioritize defense. If he did, the roster would look a lot different

 

[Natebishop3]

PG's ahead of Dame on the all-time rank:

• Magic
• Isaiah
• Stockton
• Kidd
• Paul
• Nash
• Curry

IMO, Dame might be able to pass Curry and Nash. I don't see him cracking the top 5.

I feel like it's too hard to have a all encompassing list of pointguards. I think Dame could be a top 5 scoring point guard, but guys like Magic, Stockton, Kidd, Nash were just much much better passers.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I feel like it's too hard to have a all encompassing list of pointguards. I think Dame could be a top 5 scoring point guard, but guys like Magic, Stockton, Kidd, Nash were just much much better passers.

Sure, there is plenty of variety in PG styles, but even of those who are different styles than Dame, it's not hard to put those guys above him. Nash and Stockton also were superb (almost Curry-caliber) shooters, just not of volume. Stockton, Kidd and Isiah were also excellent defenders, as is Paul. Plus I forgot to add GP, who probably should be on the list ahead of Dame as well.

Even if I can't have a clear 1-9 rank, I don't think it's hard to put all those guys ahead of Dame (at the moment).

 

[HolyBackboard]

Dame is already better than Stockton. I know John has the stats, but he was never the best player on his own team and really never made an impact in the postseason. I think Dame would wreck Stockton if they played in either era.

 

[blazerkor]

PG's ahead of Dame on the all-time rank:

• Magic
• Isaiah
• Stockton
• Kidd
• Paul
• Nash
• Curry

IMO, Dame might be able to pass Curry and Nash. I don't see him cracking the top 5.

If Dame wins a chip or two he would pass Curry and Nash like you said but he'd also pass CP3, Kidd and Zeke, hell if he won a chip as the best player on the team, he should pass Stockton too.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

PG's ahead of Dame on the all-time rank:

• Magic
• Isaiah
• Stockton
• Kidd
• Paul
• Nash
• Curry

IMO, Dame might be able to pass Curry and Nash. I don't see him cracking the top 5.

Don't agree.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Dame is already better than Stockton. I know John has the stats, but he was never the best player on his own team and really never made an impact in the postseason. I think Dame would wreck Stockton if they played in either era.

I assumed we're not talking about individual talent, but about overall career. IMO, Stockton's career dwarfs Dame's, even being Karl Malone's "robin" all those years

If Dame wins a chip or two he would pass Curry and Nash like you said but he'd also pass CP3, Kidd and Zeke, hell if he won a chip as the best player on the team, he should pass Stockton too.

True, Dame winning a couple titles would change the calculus. I'm operating under the (highly likely) assumption that he never leads the Blazers to a championship.

Don't agree.

Care to elaborate? Or provide your list/ranking? And I ask not to be argumentative, but because discussing this kind of stuff is some of my favorite kind of basketball-fan fun.

 

[e_blazer]

I assumed we're not talking about individual talent, but about overall career. IMO, Stockton's career dwarfs Dame's, even being Karl Malone's "robin" all those years


True, Dame winning a couple titles would change the calculus. I'm operating under the (highly likely) assumption that he never leads the Blazers to a championship.


Care to elaborate? Or provide your list/ranking? And I ask not to be argumentative, but because discussing this kind of stuff is some of my favorite kind of basketball-fan fun.

Elaborate? Hmm. Many of those ahead on that list are not as good as he is.

 

[calvin natt]

PG's ahead of Dame on the all-time rank:

• Magic
• Isaiah
• Stockton
• Kidd
• Paul
• Nash
• Curry

IMO, Dame might be able to pass Curry and Nash. I don't see him cracking the top 5.

Pass Curry? No way. Not enough time left. Steph has two MVPs and 3 rings.

 

[Natebishop3]

Sure, there is plenty of variety in PG styles, but even of those who are different styles than Dame, it's not hard to put those guys above him. Nash and Stockton also were superb (almost Curry-caliber) shooters, just not of volume. Stockton, Kidd and Isiah were also excellent defenders, as is Paul. Plus I forgot to add GP, who probably should be on the list ahead of Dame as well.

Even if I can't have a clear 1-9 rank, I don't think it's hard to put all those guys ahead of Dame (at the moment).

Honestly I think Nash was overrated. When he was in Dallas he was really just a solid player. Not a star. His numbers were very ho-hum if you compare them to his later stats in Phoenix.



And then you go look at Phoenix, where they put him in the perfect system. His numbers were massively inflated in the SSOL system.

 

[blazerkor]

Honestly I think Nash was overrated. When he was in Dallas he was really just a solid player. Not a star. His numbers were very ho-hum if you compare them to his later stats in Phoenix.

View attachment 37625

And then you go look at Phoenix, where they put him in the perfect system. His numbers were massively inflated in the SSOL system.

View attachment 37627

Both Nash and Steph are incredibly overrated. Steph's first MVP should have gone to LeBron and that second MVP, he wasn't even the MVP on that team KD was. Nash should have lost one MVP to Duncan and the other to LeBron.