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BigDaddyAl1973 said:
anyone choosing to start a team with Jeter over Jones is saying that
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...so you can't actually quote someone, right?...pretty much what I thought...sorry, but you're wrong again. No one who has said that they would rather have Jeter than Chipper has said that...but make things up if you want.

...top shelf SSs are harder to come by than 3Bmen. And it's pretty much obvious to just about everyone that when you are "starting a team", you start by building "up the middle" (SS, 2B, CF, and C).

...and not one person, and certainly not me, has said that Chipper was not a fine player. In fact, he went to the same school I went to in my home town and I'm quite aware of his career. But Jeter dreamed of playing for the Yanx since he was 5-6 years old and that was part of the reasoning behind drafting him in the first place.
 
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And for clarity sake, let's be real...of Jeter, ARod, Nomad and Tejada, only Jeter is going into the HOF. In my mind, that settles who was the best, and we didn't even have to count rings. And I gave my logic/formula as to why I would prefer to build my franchise around a talented SS. No disrespect to Chipper, but a quick look at the NL AS rosters during his career, there was some stiff competition at 3B. And yes, a few one year wonders, but that's the point, you can fill that hole in your lineup easier than a SS.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...so you can't actually quote someone, right?...pretty much what I thought...sorry, but you're wrong again. No one who has said that they would rather have Jeter than Chipper has said that...but make things up if you want.

...top shelf SSs are harder to come by than 3Bmen. And it's pretty much obvious to just about everyone that when you are "starting a team", you start by building "up the middle" (SS, 2B, CF, and C).

...and not one person, and certainly not me, has said that Chipper was not a fine player. In fact, he went to the same school I went to in my home town and I'm quite aware of his career. But Jeter dreamed of playing for the Yanx since he was 5-6 years old and that was part of the reasoning behind drafting him in the first place.
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that's bullshit...you are supposed to be sound defensively up the middle....but you take the better player when presented on starting a team.
 
totus44 said:
And for clarity sake, let's be real...of Jeter, ARod, Nomad and Tejada, only Jeter is going into the HOF. In my mind, that settles who was the best, and we didn't even have to count rings. And I gave my logic/formula as to why I would prefer to build my franchise around a talented SS. No disrespect to Chipper, but a quick look at the NL AS rosters during his career, there was some stiff competition at 3B. And yes, a few one year wonders, but that's the point, you can fill that hole in your lineup easier than a SS.
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I have asked what other switch hitting 3rd basemen would you take over the same period of time...
During their primes, Arod was superior....Tejada and Nomar were just as good with Nomar being a better hitter...you want solid up the middle defense..then you take Omar Viquel.
 
BigDaddyAl1973 said:
I have asked what other switch hitting 3rd basemen would you take over the same period of time...
During their primes, Arod was superior....Tejada and Nomar were just as good with Nomar being a better hitter...you want solid up the middle defense..then you take Omar Viquel.
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...you simply cannot stay on topic without bringing up even more irrelevancies...we're talking about building a team in 1995, right?

...surprised you didn't pull Ozzie Smith or Bill Mazeroski out of your ass.
 
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put them both in a room, and everyone would know who jeter was!
 
OK great, in 1995 you want Omar Vizquel. Then I'll take Matt Williams at 3B. Have you noticed not too many people are putting as much value on switch hitting ? No one is saying he wasn't rare if you want to parse things down to that level. But generally speaking a good power hitting 3B isn't that hard to come by compared to a well rounded SS. What part of building a franchise down the middle of the field do you now agree with? Thus far you are saying that you don't need a SS if you have a switching hitting 3B with power and average. Got any examples where that philosophy has worked?
 
yankeesince59 said:
...you simply cannot stay on topic without bringing up even more irrelevancies...we're talking about building a team in 1995, right?

...surprised you didn't pull Ozzie Smith or Bill Mazeroski out of your ass.
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WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING you made it sound like AROD AND NOMAR were from a different decade...
Nomar drafted 1st round 12th overall in 1994
Arod drafted 1st overall in 1993
Vizquel was already established in the league by 1995 with his 3rd of 5 in a row gold gloves.
Those three at the time when this debate is started are three SS that were just as good if not better than Jeter.


yeah no owner starting up a team would want these two kids...or a defensive stud like Vizquel. Out of the three no owner would start a team with Vizquel.
Now...what switch hitting 3rd basement were around that were better than Jones.
 
^^^...what am I smoking?...I guess you mean aside from your ass?
 
totus44 said:
OK great, in 1995 you want Omar Vizquel. Then I'll take Matt Williams at 3B. Have you noticed not too many people are putting as much value on switch hitting ? No one is saying he wasn't rare if you want to parse things down to that level. But generally speaking a good power hitting 3B isn't that hard to come by compared to a well rounded SS. What part of building a franchise down the middle of the field do you now agree with? Thus far you are saying that you don't need a SS if you have a switching hitting 3B with power and average. Got any examples where that philosophy has worked?
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ive named 3 SS that were just as good or had highter ceilings than Jeter, not to mention Vizquel.
You have mentioned Matt Williams, who yes was a very good 3rd baseman and some may start a team with him. Not going to argue that. But the question remains...why is Jeter so much better that you would start a team with him.

Are we talking first overall pick? Than Im taking the best overall player. Not just a SS who was above average hitter (compared to others in the industry) and a very good defensive player.

Would love to hear from other people on this subject, I do not think im that far off to say taking Chipper Jones first to start a team is unrealistic.
 
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BigDaddyAl1973 said:
WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING you made it sound like AROD AND NOMAR were from a different decade...
Nomar drafted 1st round 12th overall in 1994
Arod drafted 1st overall in 1993
Vizquel was already established in the league by 1995 with his 3rd of 5 in a row gold gloves.
Those three at the time when this debate is started are three SS that were just as good if not better than Jeter.

...the topic is between Jeter and Jones in "1995", is it not?... You're the one who decided to interject the irrelevant others.


yeah no owner starting up a team would want these two kids...or a defensive stud like Vizquel.

Vizquel?...well, at least you FINALLY decided to actually compare SSs instead of comparing SSa to 3Bmen...now, care to also compare Vizquel's OFFENSIVE value to Jeter's?...didn't think so.


Out of the three no owner would start a team with Vizquel.
Now...what switch hitting 3rd basement were around that were better than Jones.


...for the 3rd time, that was Tote's comment, not mine...you'll have to take it up with him...and try to keep up
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In the 1995 expansion draft, The Totus Toros of North Tijuana select Derek Jeter as our first pick. The Big Daddies pick Chipper Jones. Got it. 59...you want to draft a catcher next?
 
Oh and for the other switch hitting 3B, how about Ken Caminiti, Dave Hollins and Terry Pendleton. Apparently the Braves had a thing for switch hitting 3B, lol!
 
BigDaddyAl1973 said:
id take Chipper and the switch hitting feature and the additional power...also not that it should play a big affect but Jeter had a 22 million dollar payroll hit while Chipper topped out at 16 million giving me payroll flexiability to get others
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big d!!!!!!!!!! c'mon man!! take the money and the switch hitting out of the equation, as a matter of fact, take it all out!! let me quote the great Fred G Sanford, R U CRAZY!!!!!!!! jeter is more then money, power in the sense of Hr's, and switch hitting.... the intangibles, no one matches jeter!
 
Pastafazul said:
big d!!!!!!!!!! c'mon man!! take the money and the switch hitting out of the equation, as a matter of fact, take it all out!! let me quote the great Fred G Sanford, R U CRAZY!!!!!!!! jeter is more then money, power in the sense of Hr's, and switch hitting.... the intangibles, no one matches jeter!
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Those intangibles only means something when you have other good players around him.

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BigDaddyAl1973 said:
Those intangibles only means something when you have other good players around him.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
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all i have to say about jeter is, for his 3000th hit, what did he do, hits a dinger, off who, price, one of the best in the game!
 
BigDaddyAl1973 said:
Those intangibles only means something when you have other good players around him.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
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You are just clueless. Those intangibles makes others around him better.
 
BigDaddyAl1973 said:
Those intangibles only means something when you have other good players around him.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
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Al, I couldn't disagree more, if you are starting a team, you need a leader, both on and off the field. It's not that Chipper lacked talent or leadership, to me, Jeter was and still is the better choice given the topic. This is not blind Yankee pride talking. Jeter was the gold standard back in 95.
 
Majorball said:
Al, I couldn't disagree more, if you are starting a team, you need a leader, both on and off the field. It's not that Chipper lacked talent or leadership, to me, Jeter was and still is the better choice given the topic. This is not blind Yankee pride talking. Jeter was the gold standard back in 95.
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I agree completely... and this totally theoretical question is assuming there is absolutely no one else on the team... you had to look who else was on each team when they were drafted and when they came up... that is a HUGE factor too...
 
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