Is anyone else getting pissed at the way the refs treat Oden?

[tlongII]

Last night some of those calls against him were absolutely ridiculous! He gets called for fouls for just being in the area where someone is driving to the hoop? UN FREAKING BELIEVABLE! I am convinced that he's not nearly as foul prone as the league would have you think. The refs are just making crap up against him.

 

[Natebishop3]

Last night some of those calls against him were absolutely ridiculous! He gets called for fouls for just being in the area where someone is driving to the hoop? UN FREAKING BELIEVABLE! I am convinced that he's not nearly as foul prone as the league would have you think. The refs are just making crap up against him.

I've felt that way for a while. Last night was just the latest in a long line of bullshit thrown on Greg. I really am surprised too. When we drafted Greg, I thought for the first time we'd have a superstar that would get superstar calls (like Shaq did), but I was sooooo wrong. It's been the exact opposite. I thought the NBA would want to make Greg into a star, but they've done the opposite, they've driven him into the ground. Maybe it's because he plays in Portland.... I don't know.

 

[Freshtown]

Yes. But it's also equally frustrating how Oden puts himself in these situations where he does silly pushes in the back, dropping his arm down onto a defender, or simply just using his hands to hack at someone driving past him.

In due time...

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

wish there was a guru of youtube who could cut those together.

 

[jwhoops11]

Yes, terribly upset. I don't expect for him to get the superstar "no call" on defense, but Violet Palmer the other night was bound and determined to not allow him to play. I get so frustrated with the offensive foul call that he gets all the time where he puts his arms up high to make him available for a pass, bumping the defender back in the process. he's not doing it to establish position, only to recieve a pass, yet he's constantly called for it. He's big and strong, it's bound to happen yet he ends up on the bench for crap like that.

 

[Paxil]

Joel used to get same treatment. Not sure why they changed the calls on Joel... but it will change for Oden too.

 

[jwhoops11]

Yes. But it's also equally frustrating how Oden puts himself in these situations where he does silly pushes in the back, dropping his arm down onto a defender, or simply just using his hands to hack at someone driving past him.

In due time...

This is true. I guess what I view as annoying though is that when you couple his bad fouls with the ticky tack ones, that's when he's in foul trouble. I'd be willing to bet, although there's no way to prove this, that it's about 60-40 for the ones he desreves and ones he doesn't.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I think it would be a great idea for someone to make a video of all the horrible calls against him and send it to Pritchard who in turn can send in to Stern.

 

[Minstrel]

It's self-reinforcing. Referee have prejudices like all other humans (but, to their detriment, they almost seem proud of having different sets of rules for different players)...Oden does commit a lot of legitimate fouls. This causes referees to see him as "foul prone." When you see someone as a certain thing, you look for validations of that image. Really, you COULD call fouls on big men pretty much every time down the floor, either in jockeying for offensive position or going after rebounds. Since referees see Oden as foul-prone, they see a greater majority of those "could call a foul if so inclined" as fouls than they do with other players.

In the referees' (slightly twisted) sense of ethics, though, they do give players the chance to change their images. Next season, they'll probably allow Oden to show he's "earned" fairer calls by committing less obvious fouls. If he does foul less, the ticky-tack foul calls will also decrease. Which will make him seem even less foul-prone, which will reduce the silly calls even more. Eventually, he may even get preferential treatment, like Shaq did (probably the most physically disruptive player of my lifetime and almost never fouled out).

 

[jwhoops11]

In the referees' (slightly twisted) sense of ethics, though, they do give players the chance to change their images. Next season, they'll probably allow Oden to show he's "earned" fairer calls by committing less obvious fouls. If he does foul less, the ticky-tack foul calls will also decrease. Which will make him seem even less foul-prone, which will reduce the silly calls even more. Eventually, he may even get preferential treatment, like Shaq did (probably the most physically disruptive player of my lifetime and almost never fouled out).

This must be the same theory as in play lastnight, but only reversed....

You know, Oden gets away with a call that he'd be normally called for (the Westbrook hand to the face). The referees realizing this the next 3 times down the court call him for fouls that might be seen as questionable. This of course was Oden earning "less faireer" calls, becuase they missed the first one.

 

[Minstrel]

This must be the same theory as in play lastnight, but only reversed....

You know, Oden gets away with a call that he'd be normally called for (the Westbrook hand to the face). The referees realizing this the next 3 times down the court call him for fouls that might be seen as questionable. This of course was Oden earning "less faireer" calls, becuase they missed the first one.

Yeah, last night was just a bizarre make-up call(s) situation. Another silly referee concept. "I screwed up...better screw up more to even it out."

 

[jwhoops11]

Yeah, last night was just a bizarre make-up call(s) situation. Another silly referee concept. "I screwed up...better screw up more to even it out."

Very true...

I do agree with your concept though, and I do expect that in the future Greg will get away with far more than his share of questionable calls.

 

[Toko]

Stop crying. He's a rookie, they have to earn their dues before they stop getting called for ticky fouls. It's not like the only thing preventing him from dropping 30, 13 and 3 every night is fouls.....

 

[BIG Q]

Stop crying. He's a rookie, they have to earn their dues before they stop getting called for ticky fouls. It's not like the only thing preventing him from dropping 30, 13 and 3 every night is fouls.....

In some circles what the NBA refs are doing would be considered a felony. It is game fixing and I certainly thought that after the Donaghy black eye that the league would get away from the "super stars" calls and the ridiculous fouls on rookies who have to "earn it." Until that crap is cleaned up I will always think that the game is fixed to a certain extent.

They also need to quit talking about ratings and big market teams. That also leads one to infer that fixing is going on to get the LA/Boston finals. If it is so integral to the sport of basketball that big market teams be in the finals to drive tv ratings then put all of the teams in big markets. It works in European soccer. London has at least 10 clubs, with my favorite being Arsenal.

Earn their dues, bullshit! They need to be allowed to earn their money and represent the fan base that is ultimately paying his salary. Personally I scammed and would like Stern brought up on RICO charges.

 

[PapaG]

Last night some of those calls against him were absolutely ridiculous! He gets called for fouls for just being in the area where someone is driving to the hoop? UN FREAKING BELIEVABLE! I am convinced that he's not nearly as foul prone as the league would have you think. The refs are just making crap up against him.

I posted a few things last night about how Westbrook was talking to the ref who then called Oden for two fouls in two minutes. It was ridiculous. Just let the big man play.

 

[Bwatcher]

There is something about a player's "style" that is a factor too. Sabonis seemed to move too slowly to "deserve" calls, so when he would roll to the basket, he would get bumped, hacked and clobbered, yet no call. At that time I wondered if it was prejudice against a "foreign" player, but it was probably prejudice against a style and the type of players that Sabonis had as teammates. Tim Duncan is careful about his fouls and has always had a "good person" image. It is only in the last couple of years that calls seem to not go his way.

The current Blazers I think have a "good person" image. We will see in the playoffs if it helps.

 

[Natebishop3]

Stop crying. He's a rookie, they have to earn their dues before they stop getting called for ticky fouls. It's not like the only thing preventing him from dropping 30, 13 and 3 every night is fouls.....

Kinda hard to score or rebound from the bench, wouldn't you say?

 

[MARIS61]

He fouls a lot, so he gets called.

What I hate is Shaq fouls a lot, has never been called.

 

[tlongII]

He fouls a lot, so he gets called.

What I hate is Shaq fouls a lot, has never been called.

The problem is that he gets called for numerous fouls that he DID NOT commit! That's what pisses me off.

 

[Natebishop3]

He fouls a lot, so he gets called.

What I hate is Shaq fouls a lot, has never been called.

Maris, two of his first three fouls were complete and utter bullshit. They happened right after the Westbrook incident.

I saw Westbrook get up, look at the ref and point at the jumbotron and say "you see that?" Shortly there after, Greg is sitting on the bench with three fouls. The rest of the game was called very lightly, and the players were allowed to play. Only Oden was lambasted with unjust fouls.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

He fouls a lot, so he gets called.

What I hate is Shaq fouls a lot, has never been called.

I wonder if maybe the league views the way it has called Shaq's career to be a mistake, and the way they're calling Oden is seen as a correction to that mistake.

 

[jwhoops11]

Stop crying. He's a rookie, they have to earn their dues before they stop getting called for ticky fouls. It's not like the only thing preventing him from dropping 30, 13 and 3 every night is fouls.....

Really, is "earn your dues" rookie in the rule book?

 

[Tince]

Really, is "earn your dues" rookie in the rule book?

I agree, I hate when people say that like. True or not, it's not something we should be conditioned to accept.

 

[mgb]

I just don't understand why Nate doesn't ever get on the refs. I understand him not wanting the team to get obsessed with them, but I would expect him to. Other coaches do and they get results. I remember once a ref going to Phil Jackson and asking if we're ok now? I couldn't believe that!!

 

[Tince]

I just don't understand why Nate doesn't ever get on the refs. I understand him not wanting the team to get obsessed with them, but I would expect him to. Other coaches do and they get results. I remember once a ref going to Phil Jackson and asking if we're ok now? I couldn't believe that!!

I know Nate tells the team not to focus on the refs and whatnot, so for him to constantly complain wouldn't really be practicing what he preaches.

I think as this team grows and has Nate continues to gain respect around the league, he'll have the freedom to complain more. I notice him barking at refs a lot, but he seems to let it go real quick.

 

[Deebag]

The NBA is by far the worst officiated out of all sports. And David Stern is terrible as a commish for allowing all this to happen.

 

[Tince]

The NBA is by far the worst officiated out of all sports. And David Stern is terrible as a commish for allowing all this to happen.

I would say the NBA is by far the toughest professional sport to ref. You could make a case for the NFL, but when you have 6 officials who can specialize on their calls, I think it makes it easy to give the nod to the NBA refs having the toughest job.

 

[Deebag]

There are a lot of judgment calls in the NBA, but the biggest problem is flopping. And it's now quite obvious when a person does it, but refs insist on rewarding them. And that basically brings the "flopping" element to the game and encourages more players to do it. Hell, Shaq even did it after bashing it to death because he knew he had to adjust.

Flopping along with the need to argue refs and superstar treatment just brings down the quality of NBA so much when it doesn't have to. NBA refs don't have to submit to the douchebag players. If someone complains more, give them LESS calls instead of more. Teach the players some manners. Like the article on B-Roy earlier this year. In his rookie year, he took calls like a man and didn't complain but refs never rewarded him for it. Now he's having to conform to how every other superstar does, and cry out whenever he's slightly touched.

 

[BIG Q]

I would say the NBA is by far the toughest professional sport to ref. You could make a case for the NFL, but when you have 6 officials who can specialize on their calls, I think it makes it easy to give the nod to the NBA refs having the toughest job.

Then employ another ref to each game. Have him sitting courtside with the replay monitor so that he can instantly review and rule on obvious mistakes. Take it a bit further and give coaches red flags to throw and challenge a call. If it is good enough for the NFL it should be good enough for the NBA. Eventually, if a refs calls are being overturned a lot then they are obviously not cut out for the job. This will also stop the pricks from making the super star calls, from giving super stars fouls to lesser players and from calling crap on rookies just because they are rookies.

There are a large number of things that the NBA can do to clean up the piss poor officiating. But it will never happen if they do not admit that it sucks. Stern is in denial and hides behind the fact that they have "standards" and because "they are constantly reviewing their officials performance." It is not enough.

 

[Tince]

Then employ another ref to each game. Have him sitting courtside with the replay monitor so that he can instantly review and rule on obvious mistakes. Take it a bit further and give coaches red flags to throw and challenge a call. If it is good enough for the NFL it should be good enough for the NBA. Eventually, if a refs calls are being overturned a lot then they are obviously not cut out for the job. This will also stop the pricks from making the super star calls, from giving super stars fouls to lesser players and from calling crap on rookies just because they are rookies.

There are a large number of things that the NBA can do to clean up the piss poor officiating. But it will never happen if they do not admit that it sucks. Stern is in denial and hides behind the fact that they have "standards" and because "they are constantly reviewing their officials performance." It is not enough.

I disagree with you on a couple things:

1) You want the NBA to review things like out-of-bounds, three in the key, and lane violations? They can't review fouls, just like in the NFL, you can't review any subjective call like pass interference. I think that would really slow the game down and wouldn't really help the game. They already review threes and shots at the buzzer, I think that's good enough.

2) I think you missed the point that the NFL is so specialized that they have officials that typically only have to watch a couple things. You can't have one ref that really only looks for offensive fouls, another who protects the point guards, and the third who calls all the defensive fouls.

Have you reffed basketball at the high school or college level? If you have, I'm sure you understand the difficulty with so many things going on at once, and the fact that it is a contact sport, but only to a subjective level. I know how much harder the games become to ref as the key level, speed, and strength of the players increase.