Josh Smith on the block?

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Cake

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Chad Ford (yeah, I know...many hate him/think he's an idiot) says that the Hawks are trying to trade Josh Smith, but are having difficulty finding a team willing to pay the $6 million trade kicker in his contract.

Wow...if they were actually willing to trade him, how would Portland not be all over that deal in a heartbeat.

Outlaw plus the #24 for Josh Smith? (plus whatever else they need to feel like they didn't get raked over the coals) I believe that works cap-wise. They get some cheaper scoring and a pick. We get a stud at SF for the next 10 years.

I believe this is the *kind* of deal that could happen on draft day, with teams shedding talent for cap relief. And it's exactly the kind of thing Pritchard wa talking about when he said they were looking at 'lopsided trades' on draft day.

http://www.theknicksblog.com/2009/06/15/chad-fords-buzz-hawks-shopping-smith-rubio-falling/
 
Not a Smoove fan.


He might be better than Outlaw, only with like a gazillion more $$$ attached to him.
 
He's beefed up and is a PF. Adding him would mean moving Lamarcus to center and bringing Oden off the bench.

I don't like it.
 
The object is not to have 10 all-star caliber players, but to have a few and then fill in around them.
 
What if we facilitated a deal, to basically pay the trade kicker for a different team? What if Memphis wanted him, but didn't want to pay the 6 million dollars or whatever he is owed. Would be a complicated deal, but basicalyy agreed to on draft night, Josh Smith to Portland, Outlaw and 24 to Atlanta. We pay 6 million trade kicker. Then trade Josh Smith to Memphis for #2 and 10 million dollar TPE. Basically a way to trade Outlaw, #24, and 6 million dollars for Rubio.
 
Crimson the Cat said:
He's beefed up and is a PF. Adding him would mean moving Lamarcus to center and bringing Oden off the bench.

I don't like it.
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I think the only reason he was playing PF for Atlanta is that he's a better option at defending the 4 than Marvin Williams. I'm guessing if they had their perfect lineup, it would be Horford at the PF, a real center starting and Smith at the SF. With the way they played (from the maybe 10-15 games I saw this season) the lines were blurred between Smith and Williams. They both played the 3 and 4 from what I could tell. I may be wrong though.

He was 221 out of high school and is now listed at 240. I'm not sure he's bulked up to the point of no return so that he couldn't play the SF again.

He's a big defensive upgrade over Outlaw with better passing and rebounding. And he's younger too.
 
RR7 said:
What if we facilitated a deal, to basically pay the trade kicker for a different team? What if Memphis wanted him, but didn't want to pay the 6 million dollars or whatever he is owed. Would be a complicated deal, but basicalyy agreed to on draft night, Josh Smith to Portland, Outlaw and 24 to Atlanta. We pay 6 million trade kicker. Then trade Josh Smith to Memphis for #2 and 10 million dollar TPE. Basically a way to trade Outlaw, #24, and 6 million dollars for Rubio.
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You're genius!
 
RR7 said:
What if we facilitated a deal, to basically pay the trade kicker for a different team? What if Memphis wanted him, but didn't want to pay the 6 million dollars or whatever he is owed. Would be a complicated deal, but basicalyy agreed to on draft night, Josh Smith to Portland, Outlaw and 24 to Atlanta. We pay 6 million trade kicker. Then trade Josh Smith to Memphis for #2 and 10 million dollar TPE. Basically a way to trade Outlaw, #24, and 6 million dollars for Rubio.
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aHA.. Tom Penn is RR7
 
BLAZER PROPHET said:
The object is not to have 10 all-star caliber players, but to have a few and then fill in around them.
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Currently, we have exactly 1 all star on our team. All star 'caliber'? Not sure what that means, but Aldridge doesn't rebound well enough to be an all star any time soon. Oden MAY get there, but frankly...he sucked this season. Fernandez? Good scorer/good passer/not enough else. Bayless? Completely unproven with a lot of physical skills and some obvious flaws. I think you upgrade talent any time you can. This would be a huge upgrade.
 
Cake said:
I think the only reason he was playing PF for Atlanta is that he's a better option at defending the 4 than Marvin Williams. I'm guessing if they had their perfect lineup, it would be Horford at the PF, a real center starting and Smith at the SF. With the way they played (from the maybe 10-15 games I saw this season) the lines were blurred between Smith and Williams. They both played the 3 and 4 from what I could tell. I may be wrong though.

He was 221 out of high school and is now listed at 240. I'm not sure he's bulked up to the point of no return so that he couldn't play the SF again.

He's a big defensive upgrade over Outlaw with better passing and rebounding. And he's younger too.
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He seemed to be a step too slow out on the perimeter the past couple of years. And he isn't dependable from outside.

I love the idea of using him to get what we want though. Memphis signed him to that offer sheet, so the interest is there. We could have our pick of anyone in the draft. Be that Rubio, Flynn, or Curry. The latter two we could move down to get even another asset.

Or we could use him to get Mike Conley, possibly a package for Chris Paul with Bayless, a package for Deng and Hinrich, possibly Gerald Wallace, Butler, Prince, or Jefferson.

This would open up a lot of possibilities.
 
Cake said:
Currently, we have exactly 1 all star on our team. All star 'caliber'? Not sure what that means, but Aldridge doesn't rebound well enough to be an all star any time soon. Oden MAY get there, but frankly...he sucked this season. Fernandez? Good scorer/good passer/not enough else. Bayless? Completely unproven with a lot of physical skills and some obvious flaws. I think you upgrade talent any time you can. This would be a huge upgrade.
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False. He was productive in every area.. unfortunately that includes fouls.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
False. He was productive in every area.. unfortunately that includes fouls.
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Yeah...and if I was better looking I'd look like Brad Pitt.

A HUGE aspect of the game is staying on the court. Hell, maybe that's the BIGGEST aspect of the game.

And my response was to somebody who said that we didn't need 10 'all star caliber' players on the roster. If you think that Oden's performance was 'all star caliber' I guess we can argue that point...and you'll lose.
 
Cake said:
Yeah...and if I was better looking I'd look like Brad Pitt.

A HUGE aspect of the game is staying on the court. Hell, maybe that's the BIGGEST aspect of the game.

And my response was to somebody who said that we didn't need 10 'all star caliber' players on the roster. If you think that Oden's performance was 'all star caliber' I guess we can argue that point...and you'll lose.
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You were addressing one thing someone else said and I was addressing one thing you said. Foul trouble is one of the biggest plagues for a rookie big man and it is something that is fixable.
 
Cake said:
Chad Ford (yeah, I know...many hate him/think he's an idiot) says that the Hawks are trying to trade Josh Smith, but are having difficulty finding a team willing to pay the $6 million trade kicker in his contract.

Wow...if they were actually willing to trade him, how would Portland not be all over that deal in a heartbeat.

Outlaw plus the #24 for Josh Smith? (plus whatever else they need to feel like they didn't get raked over the coals) I believe that works cap-wise. They get some cheaper scoring and a pick. We get a stud at SF for the next 10 years.

I believe this is the *kind* of deal that could happen on draft day, with teams shedding talent for cap relief. And it's exactly the kind of thing Pritchard wa talking about when he said they were looking at 'lopsided trades' on draft day.

http://www.theknicksblog.com/2009/06/15/chad-fords-buzz-hawks-shopping-smith-rubio-falling/
Click to expand...

What the farg are you talking about? Josh Smith is vastly over rated. See the problem with Josh Smith is, he thinks he is a great outside shooter, but he isn't. But he keeps on throwin them up, even when they don't even draw iron. I would suggest you go talk to some Hawks fans and get their take, most of them are pretty pissed with the guy. Hard to coach. Doesn't listen. Thinks he has outside game when he doesn't. Loses it mentally all the time. Gets into it with the refs all the time even though it is often his bad play that got him in trouble defensivly.
 
hasoos said:
What the farg are you talking about? Josh Smith is vastly over rated. See the problem with Josh Smith is, he thinks he is a great outside shooter, but he isn't. But he keeps on throwin them up, even when they don't even draw iron. I would suggest you go talk to some Hawks fans and get their take, most of them are pretty pissed with the guy. Hard to coach. Doesn't listen. Thinks he has outside game when he doesn't. Loses it mentally all the time. Gets into it with the refs all the time even though it is often his bad play that got him in trouble defensivly.
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1.3 three point attempts per game. (201st in the NBA last season) A whopping 87 attempts for the season. Wow...yeah, you're right. He really pukes up shots at an all time high rate. :rolleyes:

And he can't hit any of them either. 29.9%. (higher 3pt percentage than Tony Parker, Gerald Wallace, Devin Harris, Ray Felton, Andre Miller, etc...)

I'm not suggesting he's the perfect player. But he's a big upgrade over Outlaw. And making up shit doesn't help the argument that he isn't an upgrade.

PS- Your description sounds almost exactly the same as somebody might have described Rasheed Wallace a few years back. Too many threes, too much of a headcase, hard to coach, goes after refs. Sheed helped Detroit win a championship. I think Detroit fans are pretty stoked that they made that deal.
 
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Smith would be a great player to add... ideally as a first forward off the bench. That would allow us to rest any of our front line guys (with Aldridge sliding to the 5, if needed).

Would he accept a "super-sub" role? I doubt it. Would he be able to be the big upgrade at 3 so many of us would like in the short-intermediate run? Maybe not.

If all it cost us was Outlaw, the #24 and some cap space, though? I'd be willing to take that chance on a 23 year-old like Smith.

Ed O.
 
Cake said:
1.3 three point attempts per game. (201st in the NBA last season) A whopping 87 attempts for the season. Wow...yeah, you're right. He really pukes up shots at an all time high rate. :rolleyes:

And he can't hit any of them either. 29.9%. (higher 3pt percentage than Tony Parker, Gerald Wallace, Devin Harris, Ray Felton, Andre Miller, etc...)

I'm not suggesting he's the perfect player. But he's a big upgrade over Outlaw. And making up shit doesn't help the argument that he isn't an upgrade.

PS- Your description sounds almost exactly the same as somebody might have described Rasheed Wallace a few years back. Too many threes, too much of a headcase, hard to coach, goes after refs. Sheed helped Detroit win a championship. I think Detroit fans are pretty stoked that they made that deal.
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The definition of an outside shot is not only 3's. Dude if you want to continue and post your support of him, I have no problem with that. It is your basketball knowledge on the line, not mine. You might want to go watch some games of him, particularly in the playoffs before you post again though, you will probably agree with what I say more after you watch some footage. Not to mention the fact that there were probably a good 15 to 20 articles in which Woodson talks about the shot selection issue and how he takes too many outside jumpers. At least that way you look educated when posting.
 
RR7 said:
What if we facilitated a deal, to basically pay the trade kicker for a different team? What if Memphis wanted him, but didn't want to pay the 6 million dollars or whatever he is owed. Would be a complicated deal, but basicalyy agreed to on draft night, Josh Smith to Portland, Outlaw and 24 to Atlanta. We pay 6 million trade kicker. Then trade Josh Smith to Memphis for #2 and 10 million dollar TPE. Basically a way to trade Outlaw, #24, and 6 million dollars for Rubio.
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I like it, but I don't know if it would work. Is the trade kicker a one-time thing? Or is it for every time Smith gets traded?

Memphis might be tempted by that...

But, of course, why involve us? The $6M isn't THAT much and they have cap room, and they get to keep a valuable pick.
 
If Pritchard feels that Smith can successfully play the small forward position full-time, I'd love for Portland to pick up Smith on the cheap (in terms of talent). I think he's a very nice talent and a major defensive asset. If he can be as good a defender at the 3, an Oden/Aldridge/Smith front line would be a defensive monster.

If he can only play power forward, at this point, then his value to Portland decreases and his willingness to play for Portland would probably be non-existent (as he'd be a backup). I think he can play small forward about as effectively, but I certainly defer to Pritchard and his staff on that.

A trade-and-flip (as RR7 suggests) would also be pretty interesting. The reason Portland would be involved is to swallow monetary costs so that Atlanta saves money and Memphis (for example) doesn't have to take on money.
 
Cake said:
Currently, we have exactly 1 all star on our team. All star 'caliber'? Not sure what that means, but Aldridge doesn't rebound well enough to be an all star any time soon. Oden MAY get there, but frankly...he sucked this season. Fernandez? Good scorer/good passer/not enough else. Bayless? Completely unproven with a lot of physical skills and some obvious flaws. I think you upgrade talent any time you can. This would be a huge upgrade.
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I see your point, but disagree. Historically, teams that have tried to put all-star caliber players at every position (or, as you put it, upgrading whenever they can) have won a grand total of 1 title. It's a proven fact that there's only 1 basketball and by adding more and more talent just screws things up. Or have you already forgotten the Trader Bob years? A monumental bust.
 
BLAZER PROPHET said:
I see your point, but disagree. Historically, teams that have tried to put all-star caliber players at every position (or, as you put it, upgrading whenever they can) have won a grand total of 1 title. It's a proven fact that there's only 1 basketball and by adding more and more talent just screws things up. Or have you already forgotten the Trader Bob years? A monumental bust.
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The Trader Bob years were remarkable, given the total absence of anything resembling an MVP-level player.

The Blazers were very close to winning a few titles with Whitsitt at the helm, and holding that era up as an example of a failed strategy in terms of talent acquisition strikes me as very very odd.

If one wants to make the more ethereal character/chemistry argument, it makes more sense... but without the near-constant attempts to upgrade every position, the Blazers would have been lucky to make the playoffs in the post-Drexler years, let alone have the tremendous success that they did.

Ed O.
 
wow that trade idea is amazing....thats who KP is, he said he reads message boards sometimes.
 
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