Just too much missing this year

[Messiah717]

This is a club looking to make up for the loss of far too much offensive production. It's one thing to not want to live and die by the homer. It's another thing to hit hardly any anymore. Unfortunately I see the Red Sox smacking them around after the break and really offering a dose of reality about the season.

 

[Rick2583]

This is a club looking to make up for the loss of far too much offensive production. It's one thing to not want to live and die by the homer. It's another thing to hit hardly any anymore. Unfortunately I see the Red Sox smacking them around after the break and really offering a dose of reality about the season.

That's one of the things that bugs the hell out of me about clueless Joe. He knew that the long ball wasn't going to be the difference maker this season & that there would have to be a lot of small ball involved. especially instructing the so-called speed guys (namely Gardner) to steal a base more often to get in scoring position. To do more hit & run which I rarely see from this team.

Yeah we lost to much this season to over come & the sad thing is, is that it's not going to look any better next season unless our 240 hitting 1st baseman can come back from his injuries & A-Rod is not suspended.

 

[Messiah717]

The small ball argument stems from frustration. This team scored one run four times in a week. Stealing more bases is not going to remedy the fact that they flat out aren't hitting. Also, this team has bunted and done little things a lot more this season than any season in recent memory. The team needs to be rebuilt while at the time having a couple of crippling contracts to deal with. Arod I don't think plays another game in a Yankee uniform. I don't see how in the hell you bring that distraction into the clubhouse.

 

[Hammerojustice]

The small ball argument stems from frustration. This team scored one run four times in a week. Stealing more bases is not going to remedy the fact that they flat out aren't hitting. Also, this team has bunted and done little things a lot more this season than any season in recent memory. The team needs to be rebuilt while at the time having a couple of crippling contracts to deal with. Arod I don't think plays another game in a Yankee uniform. I don't see how in the hell you bring that distraction into the clubhouse.

they are doing some small ball things, yes... but they aren't doing what they could be doing... yes, there are too many injuries, but its time to tear down and rebuild... I hope A-Rod is done...

 

[Rick2583]

they are doing some small ball things, yes... but they aren't doing what they could be doing... yes, there are too many injuries, but its time to tear down and rebuild... I hope A-Rod is done...

IMO they're not doing enough of it. As far as rebuilding, if the Stienbrenner boys are serious about the 189M for next season, (this year its 228M) its going to be real hard when there's 105M just between 6 players next year. A-Rod (25M), Tex (22.5M), CC (23M), Cano (I'm guessing (20M), Jeter (8M) & Ichiro (6.5M)

 

[yankeesince59]

IMO they're not doing enough of it. As far as rebuilding, if the Stienbrenner boys are serious about the 189M for next season, (this year its 228M) its going to be real hard when there's 105M just between 6 players next year. A-Rod (25M), Tex (22.5M), CC (23M), Cano (I'm guessing (20M), Jeter (8M) & Ichiro (6.5M)

...if Jeter returns next year, his salary will be considerably more than "$8 Mil" (incentives)

...and the "$189 Mil" figure has pretty much already been dismissed as "unrealistic". And the further things move along, the more it appears ARod's salary may be wiped from the books. The Yanx will be buyers next year and will have plenty of room to spend, and spend wisely, I hope.

 

[Rick2583]

...if Jeter returns next year, his salary will be considerably more than "$8 Mil" (incentives)

...and the "$189 Mil" figure has pretty much already been dismissed as "unrealistic". And the further things move along, the more it appears ARod's salary may be wiped from the books. The Yanx will be buyers next year and will have plenty of room to spend, and spend wisely, I hope.

I hope you're right about A-Rod.

 

[yankeesince59]

Rick, the really sad thing, and what pisses me off the most about ARod, is that he could have easily been one of the greatest players to ever play the game, even without the help of PEDs...and he threw it all away. Now he will go down in Baseball history as a liar, a cheat, and one of the most hated players to ever play the game.

...and I don't feel one bit sorry for him.


...my hope is that the impending suspensions are all upheld, and it will scare the hell out of others who may consider using PEDs down the road. But if they are that stupid as to try to short cut success by cheating, I hope they are run out of Baseball too.

...it also appears that even the MLBPA and most of it's players will to a degree, back the commissioner's office on this. I think they are fed up with it too and will "draw a line in the sand".

 

[Rick2583]

Rick, the really sad thing, and what pisses me off the most about ARod, is that he could have easily been one of the greatest players to ever play the game, even without the help of PEDs...and he threw it all away. Now he will go down in Baseball history as a liar, a cheat, and one of the most hated players to ever play the game.

...and I don't feel one bit sorry for him.


...my hope is that the impending suspensions are all upheld, and it will scare the hell out of others who may consider using PEDs down the road. But if they are that stupid as to try to short cut success by cheating, I hope they are run out of Baseball too.

...it also appears that even the MLBPA and most of it's players will to a degree, back the commissioner's office on this. I think they are fed up with it too and will "draw a line in the sand".

You're absolutely right about the mans talent & that he really didn't need to cheat. And the same has been said about Barry Bonds. I mean here are two guys that were so gifted & both would have gone down as two of the greatest to play the game. But for some reason they thought there god given talent wasn't enough & they had to cheat. And all I can say to that is..................."WHAT A DAMN SHAME".

 

[Hammerojustice]

...if Jeter returns next year, his salary will be considerably more than "$8 Mil" (incentives)

...and the "$189 Mil" figure has pretty much already been dismissed as "unrealistic". And the further things move along, the more it appears ARod's salary may be wiped from the books. The Yanx will be buyers next year and will have plenty of room to spend, and spend wisely, I hope.

I don't think they should be buyers... I think Cano should be traded... the team NEEDS to be rebuilt...

 

[yankeesince59]

...they're not going to trade Cano, at least as long as they still think they have a chance at the PS.

...the Yanx will have over $100 Mil to spend next year...and they will spend it...and again, I hope they do it wisely.

 

[Hammerojustice]

...they're not going to trade Cano, at least as long as they still think they have a chance at the PS.

...the Yanx will have over $100 Mil to spend next year...and they will spend it...and again, I hope they do it wisely.

you are probably right... BUT they should trade him...

 

[yankeesince59]

...I had the same convo with smarther and he feels the same way as you do...but IMO, the only way the Yanx don't sign Cano next year is if they manage to alienate him by trading him.
...if they stick with him for the rest of this year, I think when all the offers from other teams are on the table next year, he just may give the Yanx a slight discount...but on the other hand, if they do in fact trade him next year could turn out completely the opposite. I mean, if he's traded he may think "Hey, since the Yanx were not loyal to me, why in the hell should I be loyal to them?"...And if the offers are all close, he may just stick it to the Yanx and sign for a lesser amount with another team...just my 2 cents.

 

[Hammerojustice]

...I had the same convo with smarther and he feels the same way as you do...but IMO, the only way the Yanx don't sign Cano next year is if they manage to alienate him by trading him.
...if they stick with him for the rest of this year, I think when all the offers from other teams are on the table next year, he just may give the Yanx a slight discount...but on the other hand, if they do in fact trade him next year could turn out completely the opposite. I mean, if he's traded he may think "Hey, since the Yanx were not loyal to me, why in the hell should I be loyal to them?"...And if the offers are all close, he may just stick it to the Yanx and sign for a lesser amount with another team...just my 2 cents.

I don't disagree with you... but at this point, the more loyal and fair thing to do to and for Cano would be to trade him to a contender and get something for him... this team is going to stink for the next few years and that isn't fair to him... it also isn't fair to the fans... all the more reason they should trade him and rebuild this team...

 

[yankeesince59]

...but they are by no means out of the race...and Cano is their best player.

...I also see no reason to believe that this team will "stink for the next few years"...especially if ARod and to a degree, Jeter are gone next year. Gardner, Tex, Cano, and Ichiro would still be a good base to build around.


...as far as getting something for him, I assume you mean a prospect?...I'd much rather have a player like Cano, who is a sure thing, than a prospect who may or may not pan out.

 

[Hammerojustice]

...but they are by no means out of the race...and Cano is their best player.

...I also see no reason to believe that this team will "stink for the next few years"...especially if ARod and to a degree, Jeter are gone next year. Gardner, Tex, Cano, and Ichiro would still be a good base to build around.


...as far as getting something for him, I assume you mean a prospect?...I'd much rather have a player like Cano, who is a sure thing, than a prospect who may or may not pan out.

at what price? I don't want to be saddled with another albatross of a contract... Cano clearly wants that... I too would prefer Cano (a sure thing) over a prospect or two, but I don't really see Cano getting what he wants from the Yankees, and I strongly feel that the Yankees should get something for him as a result.

 

[Rick2583]

...they're not going to trade Cano, at least as long as they still think they have a chance at the PS.

...the Yanx will have over $100 Mil to spend next year...and they will spend it...and again, I hope they do it wisely.

I don't know where you're coming up with 100M to spend. When 6 players alone will be due approx 108M. Check out the thread I started titled "Decisions Decisions Decisions" I have pretty much everything broken down. Trust me, there's NO WAY this team has 100M to spend unless you're hoping that A-Rods money comes off the books.

 

[Majorball]

I feel like many here have already posted, that reality is going to hit them in the face after the all-star game. This is not a good team for many reasons, knowing that next year, you will be without Mo and the harsh reality that there isn't any available solutions for so many problems will force the organization to tip its hand and then we will see if its about the money or the product on the field. I personally feel we should re-sign Granderson, and use Gardner as trade bait. The long ball is needed more than another judy hitter that can't steal bases at will. Almonte will develop a little more pop and as a switch hitter would be the ideal 4th outfielder, leaving the Yankees to pick up a right handed masher So you would have a 4 man outfield of Almonte, Suzuki, Grandy, and the new addition. In the infield you would hopefully have a resigned Cano with a healthy Tex, Jeter and go get Headley for 3b, along with Nunez and your choice of Nix or Cruz. Catcher has to have an upgrade with Stewart of Cervelli as platoon/backup. So 3 player additions at Catcher, 3B, and Right Hand hitting outfielder solves the offense misery we are experiencing this year.

 

[Hammerojustice]

I feel like many here have already posted, that reality is going to hit them in the face after the all-star game. This is not a good team for many reasons, knowing that next year, you will be without Mo and the harsh reality that there isn't any available solutions for so many problems will force the organization to tip its hand and then we will see if its about the money or the product on the field. I personally feel we should re-sign Granderson, and use Gardner as trade bait. The long ball is needed more than another judy hitter that can't steal bases at will. Almonte will develop a little more pop and as a switch hitter would be the ideal 4th outfielder, leaving the Yankees to pick up a right handed masher So you would have a 4 man outfield of Almonte, Suzuki, Grandy, and the new addition. In the infield you would hopefully have a resigned Cano with a healthy Tex, Jeter and go get Headley for 3b, along with Nunez and your choice of Nix or Cruz. Catcher has to have an upgrade with Stewart of Cervelli as platoon/backup. So 3 player additions at Catcher, 3B, and Right Hand hitting outfielder solves the offense misery we are experiencing this year.

you want to re-sign Granderson? are you serious? Gardner is better defensively, and doesn't strike out nearly as much... Until it is proven otherwise, you have to also plan on A-Rod being in the mix...

 

[Rick2583]

I feel like many here have already posted, that reality is going to hit them in the face after the all-star game. This is not a good team for many reasons, knowing that next year, you will be without Mo and the harsh reality that there isn't any available solutions for so many problems will force the organization to tip its hand and then we will see if its about the money or the product on the field. I personally feel we should re-sign Granderson, and use Gardner as trade bait. The long ball is needed more than another judy hitter that can't steal bases at will. Almonte will develop a little more pop and as a switch hitter would be the ideal 4th outfielder, leaving the Yankees to pick up a right handed masher So you would have a 4 man outfield of Almonte, Suzuki, Grandy, and the new addition. In the infield you would hopefully have a resigned Cano with a healthy Tex, Jeter and go get Headley for 3b, along with Nunez and your choice of Nix or Cruz. Catcher has to have an upgrade with Stewart of Cervelli as platoon/backup. So 3 player additions at Catcher, 3B, and Right Hand hitting outfielder solves the offense misery we are experiencing this year.

No on headley, I don't know where last years numbers came from (well I've got an idea) but this year is closer to what he can do. 7 HRs 31 RBI & a lowly 230 average. And definitely no on Curtis (I'll swing hard at everything) Granderson. The guys a strike out machine & not worth the 13+M he'll be looking for long term. If anything July 31st is the trade dead line Lets see if we can get any takers. Same with Joba & Hughes.

 

[yankeesince59]

I don't know where you're coming up with 100M to spend. When 6 players alone will be due approx 108M. Check out the thread I started titled "Decisions Decisions Decisions" I have pretty much everything broken down. Trust me, there's NO WAY this team has 100M to spend unless you're hoping that A-Rods money comes off the books.

...rick, you have to also include the money that is ear marked for Cano...you also have to factor in the AJ Burnette money as well as the difference in Wells' contract next year, among other things...the total money free up after this year will likely be well over $100 Mil. ( not even counting what happens with Jeter)

 

[yankeesince59]

you want to re-sign Granderson? are you serious? Gardner is better defensively, and doesn't strike out nearly as much... Until it is proven otherwise, you have to also plan on A-Rod being in the mix...

...yeah, unless Grandy will take a short deal, no way they resign him.

 

[Rick2583]

...rick, you have to also include the money that is ear marked for Cano...the total money free up after this year will likely be well over $100 Mil.

Yes if you take A-Rods money away & you don't resign Cano that's around 45M right there. Then when you also take away Kuroda, Pettitte, Youkilis & Rivera that's another 50M But you're assuming that 1 we don't resign Cano & 2 A-Rods money comes off the books.

Check out the thread I create titled Decisions Decisions. You'll get a better feel as to what the Yankees have & need to do. Humor me.

 

[yankeesince59]

Yes if you take A-Rods money away & you don't resign Cano that's around 45M right there. Then when you also take away Kuroda, Pettitte, Youkilis & Rivera that's another 50M But you're assuming that 1 we don't resign Cano & 2 A-Rods money comes off the books.

Check out the thread I create titled Decisions Decisions. You'll get a better feel as to what the Yankees have & need to do. Humor me.

...Rick, I've seen the thread you're talking about.

... Here, do the math ( this doesn't even count what happens with Jeter) ;



Robinson Cano 2B $15,000,000 6.58% 4.41 0.29 $3,402,773
Curtis Granderson $15,000,000 6.58% 0.03 0.00 $501,306,740
Hiroki Kuroda SP $15,000,000 6.58% 1.60 0.11 $9,347,775
Andy Pettitte SP $12,000,000 5.26% 0.92 0.08 $13,061,679
Kevin Youkilis 3B $12,000,000 5.26% -0.40 — —
Vernon Wells LF $11,500,000 5.04% 0.66 0.06 $17,312,159
Mariano Rivera RP $10,000,000 4.38% 0.72 0.07 $13,825,293
A.J. Burnett DNP $8,500,000 3.73% — — —
Phil Hughes SP $7,150,000 3.13% 0.65 0.09 $11,000,203
Boone Logan RP $3,150,000 1.38% 0.12 0.04 $26,481,270
Travis Hafner DH $2,000,000 0.88% 0.42 0.21 $4,757,974
Joba Chamberlain $1,875,000 0.82% 0.01 0.00 $207,190,104
Brennan Boesch RF $1,500,000 0.66% 0.06 0.04 $24,019,600
Lyle Overbay 1B $1,250,000 0.55% -0.02 — —
Ben Francisco DH $1,100,000

 

[Rick2583]

...rick, you have to also include the money that is ear marked for Cano...you also have to factor in the AJ Burnette money as well as the difference in Wells' contract next year, among other things...the total money free up after this year will likely be well over $100 Mil. ( not even counting what happens with Jeter)

Good numbers & great points. I forgot about Burnett & I don't understand Wells. But I see where your monies are coming from. So with that you're looking at Approx 90M just for 5 players. A-Rod, CC, Tex, Jeter & Suzuki. I think the'll resign Cano & if they do you're looking at approx 20M per. So now we're at 110M for 6 players. IMO I also think the'll resign Kuroda for one more year. Lets reduce it to 12M. Now we're at 122M for just 7 players.

If I'm the Yankees I'd resign both Logan (lefty specialist) & Overbay (tex's backup & cheap) So between those two, (I'll aim low) there's another 6M. So thats now 128M between only 9 players. Throw in say another 10M for Pinera & Robertson & we're 138M for 11 players. So that leaves (assuming Hal & his brother are serious about the 189M) 51M dollars to fill in the rest of the roster (14 players) Just NO WAY that happens.

 

[yankeesince59]

...The Yanx will only have to pay $2.8 Mil of Wells salary next year...his previous team is on the hook for the rest.

...I'm not disputing that the Yanx will have some holes to fill...all I was saying is that they'll have well over $100 Mil to do so, and they will. I think next year's team will be much improved.

 

[Rick2583]

...The Yanx will only have to pay $2.8 Mil of Wells salary next year...his previous team is on the hook for the rest.

...I'm not disputing that the Yanx will have some holes to fill...all I was saying is that they'll have well over $100 Mil to do so, and they will. I think next year's team will be much improved.

Unless Cashman is still in charge & he resigns the same cast of mis-fits.