Knicks are potentially interested in CJ

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B-Roy said:
It's honestly just as surprising to me that people are valuing Randle as a star. I'm not the biggest fan of CJ, but Randle was the definition of empty stats before this season. I feel like the optimism with him would fade quickly once you see him in Stotts's defensive schemes.
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just how is it that Randle has empty stats and CJ doesn't?

Portland was 7-5 before CJ's injury, and are 11-6 since the injury. CJ has had two stretches of consecutive missed games over the last 3 seasons; 16 this season and 10 in 2018-19. In those 26 games Portland is 19-7. That's a .731 winning percentage which translates to 60 wins in an 82 game season. And 26 games is the kind of sample size that would tend to mitigate home/road and playoff-team/lottery-team skew

sure looks like Portland is as good, if not better, with Dame as the center of the core than with Dame/CJ as the center of the core

I've seen people say in this forum that Randle is playing way above his norms this season so you can't trust it. At the same time they will set CJ's value as that of what he did in just 12 games this season instead of his career norms. But Randle has been doing it for 26 games while CJ only did it for 12 games. But even that is inaccurate because in terms of PER, TS%, rebound rate, usage rate, and winshares, Randle has posted equivalent numbers before. The only two areas he's significantly upgraded over norms is assist rate and 3 point percentage. Assist rate is explained by an expanded role (and he increased his assists by 63% while keeping his turnover rate the same). CJ was playing much further above his norms than Randle is, meaning CJ is more likely to regress

I do think you should be skeptical of Randle's 3 pt shooting rate though

I'm not saying empty stats don't exist. I am saying I've never seen anybody come up with a consistent method of identifying empty stats. JJ Hickson had empty stats. I don't think Randle and him are equivalent
 
Randle is a good player. Its the Quickley part of the equation that is the sticking point for me. He's going to be a STUD. I cannot see how NY would let that guy go - so young, cheap, makes no sense.
 
BigGameDamian said:
Toppin will be the type of PF that you don't see a lot in the NBA anymore. He'll be like Aaron Gordon. It will take him a few years to really blossom though.
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Is that supposed to be a good thing, or a bad thing?
 
calvin natt said:
Randle is a good player. Its the Quickley part of the equation that is the sticking point for me. He's going to be a STUD. I cannot see how NY would let that guy go - so young, cheap, makes no sense.
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Not contradicting you, but just pointing out that trading for CJ is more of a "win now" mode - so, sacrificing young talent should be expected.

CJ wasn't really playing any worse that Paul George or some of the players that teams gave up a zillion picks for.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Not contradicting you, but just pointing out that trading for CJ is more of a "win now" mode - so, sacrificing young talent should be expected.

CJ wasn't really playing any worse that Paul George or some of the players that teams gave up a zillion picks for.
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Offensively, his first 12 games this season he was playing as well as PG-13 every played.
Defensively....well, that is a different story.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Not contradicting you, but just pointing out that trading for CJ is more of a "win now" mode - so, sacrificing young talent should be expected.

CJ wasn't really playing any worse that Paul George or some of the players that teams gave up a zillion picks for.
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Right but the Knicks aren’t in win now mode. And PG is 6’7’ and all defense
 
calvin natt said:
Right but the Knicks aren’t in win now mode. And PG is 6’7’ and all defense
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Only a team in win now mode would trade for CJ. I agree, they're not in win now mode, but their interest in CJ says clearly that they want to be.

I'm not saying CJ is as good as PG or as AD. But, a king's ransom was paid for them, so CJ won't be traded unless we get half a king's ransom.
 
(Beal) The Wizards are looking for a package similar to what OKC got for PG — picks into the afterlife

They get off light with a Randle/IQ package
 
I think NY would want to keep Randle to pair with CJ. A 1 for 1 swap doesn't make a ton of sense for NY. I think we'd need to expand it to a 3rd team that has a youngish vet PF or SF that we would want, who would be looking at a rebuild or a different timeline, and be interested in NY's pieces. I think their move for Rose showed that they want to slightly start to shift to winning, not win NOW, but not tank for eternity. They're currently 7th in the East. They have the 3rd ranked defense, their offense is crap. CJ would improve that a TON, give them a big bucket getter. They're not going out and winning the east behind CJ and Randle. We know that, they know that. But they also likely understand the value playoff games will have on guys like Barrett and Robinson.

What if NY sent out Toppin, Quickley, Frank and picks for CJ. Toppin goes to Atlanta with a pick for Collins. Collins, Quickley, picks here.

Similar move with Orlando and Gordon.

Similar move with Chicago for Markkannen

Something built around Barnes and Bagley with NY.

Maybe Detroit signed Grant primarily to trade him. Similar 3 way deal there?

Something where the basic premises is :

NY In: CJ
NY Out: Toppin, Quickley, Frank(or Knox), 2021 Dallas pick, 2021 NY pick

Portland In: Quickley(or Toppin, depending on 3rd team), more favorable of 2021 pick, player X from 3rd team, Frank(or Knox)
Out: CJ
3rd Team in: Toppin or Quickly, draft pick(potentially)
3rd team out: Piece we want
 
A7F6ACFB-169A-4767-AF85-52A2B7BDE985.jpeg Here is the trade I want. Throw some picks around to make it work.

Dame/Quickley
Trent/Hood/CJ2
DJJ/Nas
RoCo/Melo/Collins
KAT/Kanter/Giles
 
RR7 said:
I think NY would want to keep Randle to pair with CJ. A 1 for 1 swap doesn't make a ton of sense for NY. I think we'd need to expand it to a 3rd team that has a youngish vet PF or SF that we would want, who would be looking at a rebuild or a different timeline, and be interested in NY's pieces. I think their move for Rose showed that they want to slightly start to shift to winning, not win NOW, but not tank for eternity. They're currently 7th in the East. They have the 3rd ranked defense, their offense is crap. CJ would improve that a TON, give them a big bucket getter. They're not going out and winning the east behind CJ and Randle. We know that, they know that. But they also likely understand the value playoff games will have on guys like Barrett and Robinson.

What if NY sent out Toppin, Quickley, Frank and picks for CJ. Toppin goes to Atlanta with a pick for Collins. Collins, Quickley, picks here.

Similar move with Orlando and Gordon.

Similar move with Chicago for Markkannen

Something built around Barnes and Bagley with NY.

Maybe Detroit signed Grant primarily to trade him. Similar 3 way deal there?

Something where the basic premises is :

NY In: CJ
NY Out: Toppin, Quickley, Frank(or Knox), 2021 Dallas pick, 2021 NY pick

Portland In: Quickley(or Toppin, depending on 3rd team), more favorable of 2021 pick, player X from 3rd team, Frank(or Knox)
Out: CJ
3rd Team in: Toppin or Quickly, draft pick(potentially)
3rd team out: Piece we want
Click to expand...
If we expand it to a 3rd team I think I would bet Neil would prefer Orlando about a certain player with the initials of AG!
 
Fez Forthright said:
Randle/Quickley/filler
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good grief, you've posted this 12 times already... is this some sort of schtick?

If I were constructing a team I don't prioritize defense from the back court like I do from the Bigs. With Randle in the mix, you have a guy that opposing teams have and will target their offense at. Really I'm more intrigued by their picks then any of their players

STOMP
 
Kanter might be worst defender i have ever seen jesus he is bad
 
Serbian said:
Kanter might be worst defender i have ever seen jesus he is bad
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Case in point. While he works the boards like Moses Malone, teams always involve him in defending the pick and roll because he can't move his feet.

STOMP
 
LayneStaley said:
View attachment 37109 Here is the trade I want. Throw some picks around to make it work.

Dame/Quickley
Trent/Hood/CJ2
DJJ/Nas
RoCo/Melo/Collins
KAT/Kanter/Giles
Click to expand...
Man, if the Knicks are down with that, we would be in a great place. In fact I would take Austin Rivers instead of Quickley to make that deal happen. Rivers is a competent backup at both guard positions and we get KAT. KAT and Dame would be ridiculously good together and we would be legit contenders. Why get greedy with a prospect when Rivers would be good enough.
 
RR7 said:
I think NY would want to keep Randle to pair with CJ. A 1 for 1 swap doesn't make a ton of sense for NY. I think we'd need to expand it to a 3rd team that has a youngish vet PF or SF that we would want, who would be looking at a rebuild or a different timeline, and be interested in NY's pieces. I think their move for Rose showed that they want to slightly start to shift to winning, not win NOW, but not tank for eternity. They're currently 7th in the East. They have the 3rd ranked defense, their offense is crap. CJ would improve that a TON, give them a big bucket getter. They're not going out and winning the east behind CJ and Randle. We know that, they know that. But they also likely understand the value playoff games will have on guys like Barrett and Robinson.

What if NY sent out Toppin, Quickley, Frank and picks for CJ. Toppin goes to Atlanta with a pick for Collins. Collins, Quickley, picks here.

Similar move with Orlando and Gordon.

Similar move with Chicago for Markkannen

Something built around Barnes and Bagley with NY.

Maybe Detroit signed Grant primarily to trade him. Similar 3 way deal there?

Something where the basic premises is :

NY In: CJ
NY Out: Toppin, Quickley, Frank(or Knox), 2021 Dallas pick, 2021 NY pick

Portland In: Quickley(or Toppin, depending on 3rd team), more favorable of 2021 pick, player X from 3rd team, Frank(or Knox)
Out: CJ
3rd Team in: Toppin or Quickly, draft pick(potentially)
3rd team out: Piece we want
Click to expand...
I thought your trades wouldn't work salary wise, but I guess since NY is way under the cap, they would!
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7ch3nac
I think Atlanta would need to give a late first or early second draft pick to NY.
 
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