Lets take a closer look at this nonsense

[Rick2583]

My apologies for starting a 2nd thread on this but I wanted to break it down a little more.

Currently there are in monument field

5 Monuments
17 retired #s
31 plaques

The MONUMENTS belong to Miller Huggins there 1st manager (1918-1929), Lou Gehrig, Babe Ruth, mickey Mantle & Joe DiMaggio.

The RETIRED NUMBERS belong to.....

#1 - Billy Martin = imo a 260 hitter over parts of 7 seasons & his revolving door as a mgr. Sorry PLAQUE only
#3 - Babe Ruth
#4 - Lou Gehrig
#5 - Joe DiMaggio
#6 - Joe Torre
#7 - Mickey Mantle
#8 - Yogi Berra
#8 - Bill Dickey
#9 - Roger Maris- Yes 61 was huge but a couple of good seasons doesn't warrant a retired #. PLAQUE only.
#10 - Phil Rizzuto = For all his years & service to the team = PLAQUE only.
#15 - Thurmon Munson
#16 - Whitey ford
#23 - Don Mattingly = untouchable for 5-6 years but not enough. PLAQUE only
#32 - Elston Howard = If I'm being honest (1st black player). PLAQUE only.
#37 - Casey Stengal
#42 - Jackie Robinso & Mariano Rivera
#44 - Reggie Jackson = 3 good years & one great game, not enough. No PLAQUE or #
#49 - Ron Guidry = A few good years but not enough for # retired. = PLAQUE only.

Just to expand on Ron Guidry, if you're going to retire his # then you have to look at guys like Lefty Gomez (189-101 in 13 seasons with 4 - 20 win seasons) & Red Ruffing who in 15 years went 216-124 & had 4 straight 20 win seasons. While Guidry has both a plaque & a retired # both these other players only have a plaque.

Now regarding the more current players.....................

Goose Gossage = has a PLAQUE, in 6 years he was 41-28 & averaged 24 saves. I don't agree.
Tino Martinez = 7 seasons I'm okay with a PLAQUE.
Paul O'neill = 9 years, loved this guy, I'm okay with a PLAQUE.

looking ahead they're retiring the #s of Pettitte, Posada, & Williams, I disagree on all 3. However I'm okay with PLAQUE only.

Further ahead theirs talk of honoring Willie Randolph with a plaque. Yes a fun player but if they do this where does it stop? I mean if Randolph is worthy how about a lifetime player like Roy White? Or long team players like Gregg Nettles, Dave Winfield, Mel Stottlemyre or Bobby Murcer.

Finally at the top I mentioned how there's currently 5 MONUMENTS, imo somewhere down the road they should erect a 6th.................DEREK JETER.

 

[Rick2583]

I've never been to Monument park, I was wondering if the 12 plaques that are not connected to retired numbers are they on a separate wall? They would be.......

Miller Huggins - There 1st manager (1918-1929)
Jacob Ruppert - Owner (1915-1939)
Ed Barrow - General Manager (1921-1946)
Joe McCarthy - Manager (1931-1946
Mel Allen - Broadcaster (1939-1964 & 1976-1989)
Bob Sheppard - Public address announcer (1951-2007)
Lefty Gomez - Pitcher (1930-1942)
Allie Reynolds - Pitcher (1947-1954)
Red Ruffing - Pitcher (1930-1946)
Goose Gossage - Pitcher (1978-1983 & 1989)
Tino Martinez - 1st baseman (1996-2001 & 2005)
Paul O'Neill - Outfielder (1993-2001)

 

[Messiah717]

Jeter would certainly deserve a monument. Those are the players you do that for. Plaques for others are fine also. I would expect wanting to acknowledge players from dynasty and winning years. It's the number retiring that just goes overboard.

 

[yankeesince59]

I've never been to Monument park, I was wondering if the 12 plaques that are not connected to retired numbers are they on a separate wall? They would be.......

Miller Huggins - There 1st manager (1918-1929)
Jacob Ruppert - Owner (1915-1939)
Ed Barrow - General Manager (1921-1946)
Joe McCarthy - Manager (1931-1946
Mel Allen - Broadcaster (1939-1964 & 1976-1989)
Bob Sheppard - Public address announcer (1951-2007)
Lefty Gomez - Pitcher (1930-1942)
Allie Reynolds - Pitcher (1947-1954)
Red Ruffing - Pitcher (1930-1946)
Goose Gossage - Pitcher (1978-1983 & 1989)
Tino Martinez - 1st baseman (1996-2001 & 2005)
Paul O'Neill - Outfielder (1993-2001)

...wow, can you imagine what it would have been like to have had Bob Sheppard's gig?...all those years of only having to work home games while watching some of the greats and announcing their names when they came to bat...56 years of watching all those guys for free, and getting paid for it.

 

[Rick2583]

Jeter would certainly deserve a monument. Those are the players you do that for. Plaques for others are fine also. I would expect wanting to acknowledge players from dynasty and winning years. It's the number retiring that just goes overboard.

What's your feelings on them honoring Randolph down the road? And if so like I said, if Randolph why not Nettles, Winfield, Murcer, etc.? Its just ridiculous.

 

[yankeesince59]

...I think Randolph's day is already scheduled too.

 

[Rick2583]

...I think Randolph's day is already scheduled too.

I liked Randolph but seriously, enough is enough.

 

[totus44]

What no Winfield day?

 

[Rick2583]

What no Winfield day?

That's my point Tom. You do Randolph than you have to do Nettles, Murcer, Winfield etc. Where does it end. Just dumb.

 

[Messiah717]

Winfield had a day in August 2001.

 

[Rick2583]

Winfield had a day in August 2001.

No plaque though, and if that's the case with Randolph then that's different.

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

where is the Rickey Henderson plaque? the Mick the Quick Rivers plaque? Ed Whitson? Orlando Hernendez? David Wells? the 2015 should have a plaque day every game.....

Bucky Dent plaque day...

just replace all the bobble heads and give out plaques

 

[Mattingly23NY]

Damn fine debate here on this issue, as always. I'd like to know what King George's own criteria was for the plaques, vs. retired players numbers?

I know he had his favorites as well.

The best point indeed, is why not Randolph or Nettles but why Goose. I'd still like to know why the MLB writers honored Gossage in the HOF, tho' I must admit Goose was as intimidating as a reliever comes, altho' so was big Lee Smith.

I'd like to know previous owners, prior to George's buyout, excluding CBS, Topping, MacPhail and Webb's criterias for retiring numbers, providing plaques and Monuments. As prior stated: The history of the original Monument Park can be traced to the old Monument Park, in 1929, when the team posthumously dedicated an on-field monument to manager Miller Huggins in 1929.

My own personal criteria, and by no means is anyone's criteria an easy decision to make, would be:
No players who did not begin their careers with the Yanks and remain life long Yanks IMO, should not even have a retired number at all. Sorry Folks, thats just my opinion, which would exclude players like, Nettles, Randolph (who would of loved to of remained a Yank) , Gossage either, began a Pirate, ended a Padre, it would also nix Torre, who I have the fondest RE2PECT for. NTM Winfield beginning his career as a Padre also.

This IMO shows a lack of dedication, to the Team itself, (as I often refer to Yount taking less money to finish up with the first team he started with, by taking less money and being moved to CF from SS, and still won a MVP and Gold Glove or 2 in his new position).

By all means, I'd in a heart beat give Jeter a Monument, as well as Mo'. Both had 20 great start to finish HOF worthy careers. As much as I loved Donnie BB, I learned my lesson 10 years ago, on the BSPN boards, when I tried to justify why Donnie BB should of been HOF worthy. I get it now, and NO donnie bb should not be in the HOF.

Basically overall, I fail to see any solid criteria anywhere in Yankee Archives and Laurels, for the proper criteria of who deserves what.

 

[Messiah717]

where is the Rickey Henderson plaque? the Mick the Quick Rivers plaque? Ed Whitson? Orlando Hernendez? David Wells? the 2015 should have a plaque day every game.....

Bucky Dent plaque day...

just replace all the bobble heads and give out plaques

My brother texted me and asked when is Alvaro Espinoza day.

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

The week after Bobby Meachem day and a month before Andre Thornton

 

[Rick2583]

The week after Bobby Meachem day and a month before Andre Thornton

What no love for Horace Clarke & Jake Gibbs?

 

[Mattingly23NY]

My brother texted me and asked when is Alvaro Espinoza day.

The week after Bobby Meachem day and a month before Andre Thornton

What no love for Horace Clarke & Jake Gibbs?

all excellent points, and where in the world is Tony Kubek day or Hensley Bam Bam Meulens, Dan Pasqua or Mike Pags, gotta say I loved Pags, as well as Buhner, hated to see Jay traded, that SOB could hit a ball as hard (more line drives but still hrs as any dude I've seen).

In fact his little brother Shawn was on the A+ Minors 96 M's team here locally, and as big as Jay, but hit a paltry .207 with 3 paltry HR's, in his 1st year, with a B'Avg, of. .257 in his 2nd year, and 11 HR's, the 2nd year, After the first year, the entire INF, was sent up to AA, less Buhner, who broke only made it to AAA by the skin of his teeth, simply because Tacoma was in dire need of a 1st baseman. Shawn Buhner every single year, had quit a few more Strike Outs, than HIts. All this in a Hitters Paradise, with (No shit) routine 50 mph winds blowing to the OF.

In his 1st year as a AAA Tacoma 1st bagger, he had a sick .907 fldg. pctg.

 

[Messiah717]

If Claudell Washington, Oscar Gamble, Jerry Mumphrey, Steve Kemp, Omar Mareno, Roy Smally and Andre Robertson don't get days I'm done with this team.

 

[Mattingly23NY]

If Claudell Washington, Oscar Gamble, Jerry Mumphrey, Steve Kemp, Omar Mareno, Roy Smally and Andre Robertson don't get days I'm done with this team.

NTM=Steve Sax, and Mariano Duncan, fk Strawberry and Justice too, Sierra, and Fielder Sr. as well. LMAO.....good one Vic.....

 

[totus44]

If we are going to honor the core4, let's give credit to Gene Michael. Stick deserves to be honored.

 

[totus44]

Hell retire #55 while were at it.

 

[Mattingly23NY]

If we are going to honor the core4, let's give credit to Gene Michael. Stick deserves to be honored.

exactly it would be a grave error, to leave out an Iconic long time Yankee Brass who put together a true dynasty in modern times.....! Good Point Tote Tom.

 

[Hammerojustice]

Kevin Maas day?

 

[Mattingly23NY]

Kevin Maas day?

Ah Maas Mania....I almost forgot, dual knee braces, kinda like Will Clark or Bill Buckner, a strong pull hitter, down the short porch line.

 

[totus44]

exactly it would be a grave error, to leave out an Iconic long time Yankee Brass who put together a true dynasty in modern times.....! Good Point Tote Tom.

Without Stick, no telling where this franchise would be.

 

[Rick2583]

Kevin Maas day?

I really thought he was going to be a keeper with a long career.

 

[totus44]

I really thought he was going to be a keeper with a long career.

No Maas.....